Bitcoin Forum

http://www.bitcoinweekly.com/comics/fiat-kingdom

Also is a fail is this comic I written, http://www.bitcoinweekly.com/comics/the-gavinator

There are time when we succeed massively or fail massively. I believe this time we failed big time. I was told this comic is totally bad, and I agree with this assessment. (Don't you see? Our humor is mostly "crushing our hated enemy", the gubernment)

http://lesswrong.com/lw/m5/false_laughter/

So, I am gathering more feedbacks and comments.

Don't quit whatever it is you do besides creating utter shite like I just wasted my eyesight on...

It's not very nice to shit on someone's genuine effort to improve his works, no matter how terrible it is.

I don't mean to crap on your work, it certainly has technical merit in its style, but what do you take away from reading it other than a pat on your back delivered by your own hand? A bad story written in beautiful prose is still a bad story.

For the record, my favourite web-comic is The Perry Bible Fellowship (http://www.pbfcomics.com/) (example (http://www.pbfcomics.com/archive_b/PBF238-Capital_Punishment.jpg)).

Also, it's worth noting that XKCD is often of poor quality IMO.

I just read all comics all the way back to "Bitcoin Mascots," and all of my negative opinion about bitcoin aside, I'm honestly embarrassed by proxy through what I've just read.

Just....no.

Not sure what you mean, but I thought it was terrible. Granted, I didn't write this. I also would like to mention that the Gavinator comic is also a fail.

If you are not willing to offer constructive feedback, I am not interested in your comments.

What would be constructive feedback?

Telling you to make something that isn't completely stupid, instead?

If you're around the age of 10 or suffer from some type of cognitive disability I sincerely apologize, but if you're anywhere near or past the generally accepted age of adulthood and of "sound mind" you need a reality check.

I don't get it, that comic was awesome! I like all of them!

I mean why not just draw a silly face with "OMG BITCOIN IS AWESOME." as the caption?

Would save you the trouble of having to craft such asinine "plots."

-50 points for trying to troll me and failing epically.

+100 points for promoting traffic to my site.

Good night.

Please!  Everyone visit kibas comics now!

Well, rank comics from least funny to most funny. Maybe that will tell me something.

Just as funny or more funny than those comics I see in the papers. I've yet to see anyone come up with anything more funny than yours about BTC.

Needs some work.  I prefer the really witty/technical stuff, like xkcd.

Look kiba, obviously you're attention whoring and looking for approval on material you already know is shit.  Your coy self deprecation in the OP makes this clear.

If you're looking for a hearty circle-jerking all over your irritated creative gland, I can direct you to an appropriate forum in a PM.

But which one was funny, and which one is not?

That's nice you appreciate my comics. But that doesn't tell me anything unless Bitcoin Weekly comics are all equally funny to you.

Bitcoin Forums: Personal Focus Group Edition.

As long as you enjoy doing them, keep'em coming, even if people think it's crap.

Appreciation is nice, but I would like to gather feedback and reasons why some of my comic fail.

While I won't be near as mean about it as Synaptic and others have been - you really do need to come up with storylines that don't just amount to giant pats on the back, or circle-jerking about the future uses of it. My only problem with that (and where the "constructive" part of my criticism ends) is that I honestly have no idea what you could make a comic about Bitcoin that doesn't involve either patting one's own back or circle-jerking.

Maybe something more technical, explaining how the things work? I think it was your site that had the "eat this carrot" comic which was getting towards what I think would be useful. I guess it's tough to do - explain an aspect of Bitcoin in 6~12 frames, but honestly squirrels dropping bombs on windmills made of fiat currency isn't really helping anything (unless you're speculating on the number of times in a day people will say "what the fuck?") regardless of how awesome the frame with Gavin riding the Alpaca is for those of us in on the joke.

Not funny:
http://www.bitcoinweekly.com/comics/the-gavinator
http://www.bitcoinweekly.com/comics/bitcoin-mascots

Nearly:
http://www.bitcoinweekly.com/comics/bitcoin-rate
(Didn't quite work, but I feel it could have worked maybe with a different ending).

Funny:
http://www.bitcoinweekly.com/comics/bitsquirrel
(The only one that made me laugh a bit).

I should note that bitsquirrel seem to be received well. I think it's a good comic. Also, Joey D's Bitcoin Mascot is also well received. But it's mostly more miss than hit.

Making funny comics is really hard.


Yes, this seems to be a good pivot. It also works with Bitcoin Weekly's strength which is to be a non-sensationalist essay-driven site.

Even so, what I might implement for the funny comics is the ability to iterate and the ability for audience to give feedback on how funny it is. That way we can keep trying and see which one succeed.

Ok. Some people find the bitcoin mascot funny. Reddit likes it.

The Gavinator definitely didn't work well.

Perhaps, it would be better if the rate goes down.

I wonder if it would works better without the speech bubble.

Thanks for your feedbacks, guys.

I believe I got two improtant lessons or ideas to try out of this:

0. Avoid false laughter. That's the lesson I got before coming into this thread. Basically, don't aim for the obvious and avoid tired cilche like laughing at the expense of the enemy. Instead make comics that make people laugh even if they were the enemy.

1. This is a new lesson: Implement a rating system and a way to iterate comics. This may increase the cost of maintaining a cartoonist but it could lead to funny comics.

2. Lean on Bitcoin Weekly's strength. Bitcoin Weekly generated interesting technical and economic essays that explore the depth of the bitcoin world. That should also apply to our comics as well.

Excellent, can your thread be deleted now?

If you want quality you can start by dumping that shitty self-made script you use for the website and install wordpress(or joomla, or drupal, or) on the server.
Next, get a free theme for you chosen script, i'm sure even the shitiest free theme is better that what you have there.
Next, dump disqus, enough datamining, k?
Last, get someone that knows what a joke is to write the text for the comics.

Was this constructive enough, or are you just going to tell me to GTFO like you did to everybody else?

That have nothing to do with content or the quality of the comics. You just hate the site's look. I agree that the site can be improved and that there are many things to improve in the software, but I am not throwing out the editing process that was core to how Bitcoin Weekly works.

Stylistic improvement can be done easily enough with rails. I just need to get my ass to it.


Meh. I like it. Don't want to maintain a commenting system. Though who care about privacy are already blocking it.


Where would I get this legendary writer? I bet all of them are writing their funny and hilarious comics.

Most of the criticism have nothing to do with the comics.

This one amuses me: http://z1x.dk/2011/06/the-bitcoin-comic-002/

Off-topic: I'd favor dumping disqus. That's a service that tracks you over multiple sites (all those that use it).

On-topic: I feel the comics should have some jokes about ourselves. More introspection.

Obviously, there's privacy issue just like google collecting large amount of information about you.

I am not sure how to approach this, except the fact that I would need to export the comments, if at all possible and convert them to the database at bitcoin weekly.

I need to think about the privacy issue a bit more before deciding what's the best course of action.

So comics should make recursive jokes about themsleves. I keep that in mind.

Kiba wasnt the originator of "the gavinator" term the credit goes to shazow.

http://media.witcoin.com/p/1365/The-GAVINATOR (http://media.witcoin.com/p/1365/The-GAVINATOR)

If you ever eat breakfast with this guy, don't turn your back on him for a second.

He would probably take a crap in your cornflakes.

RELEVANT:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I66aySW4le8

I just wrote the joke. I didn't make the character or the money windmill. Obviously bitsquirrel is an invention of Joey D. Though, I applied a modification of bitsquirrel that make them gliding squirrels.

You are free to reuse them as you like. They're public domain.

I made the money windmill, and I was tickled that you wanted to use it. That said, I don't think it worked well in a comic, and here's why:

Symbols and memes are everywhere on the internet, and they mainly work well because they pack a whole lot of information into an immediately recognizable and portable package. The symbol is already the punchline.

You can make comics which use these symbols, but they're bound to end up seeming weak, because they don't have any particular reason to exist. If we recognize the symbols and smile at them, we don't need a comic to remind us of it-- you can just show us the symbol and we'll smile. If you can show us a very original story, or character, or ironic situation, and incorporate a symbol into that, we'll fall out of our chairs. But if you rely on the symbols to carry the weight, it'll fall flat, even on those who understand what the symbol means.

When you're writing jokes for an in-group, you're bound to come up with a lot of crappy jokes for this reason.

My advice (FWIW) would be to not worry so much about making jokes about bitcoins, and focus on making jokes that people who like bitcoins would find funny. If you can make a few nods to the bitcoin community in the process, all the better-- but bitcoin itself isn't that funny.

Also, PS, Synaptic: you're a huge douche. Fuck you bloody with a sharp stick.

Y'know one of the things I've learned since interacting with Internet regulars, including personal friends, is that those who use the epithet "douche" are usually prime specimens.

It just seems as though people who use the classics like "dick-head" or the time honored "asshole" are just of a higher caliber of person than those who use "douche."  I mean truly, calling someone a douche is well...kind of goes right along with the personalities that most people consider..."douchebags."

"Douche" is just that sniveling, moist, flabby, pathetic choice of an insult. Like, the insult of choice among...lower people.

Anyway...I mean this is obviously non-topical, but since you paid me the distinct delight of the insult I'd thought I'd share that small semblance of an epiphany with you.

I didn't call you a douche. I called you a huge douche.

Huge difference.

I laughed at Bitsquirrel. The rest, not so much. Of course, I understood Bitsquirrel, and someone who hasn't been involved with Bitcoin for several months might not get it.

I guess the best advice I can give is to make the comic accessible to people who aren't as familiar with Bitcoin.

...to illustrate quite well for us.

Thank you, Sir.

It's best to ignore him. Feeding the troll will only make him talk more.

...to illustrate quite well for us.

Thank you, Sir.

Hey now, I'm just trying to drive more traffic to your site...

...remember buddy?

Thanks for your feedback.


Of course, it's easier said than done.

Very good points.


Like you said, making jokes for in-group means lot of crappy jokes. I want to make good jokes.

Although, Bitcoin is indeed not funny, but you can probably find lot of material within the community that surrounds bitcoin.

Maybe try commenting on current economic and political events? There are jokes aplenty to make about everything Helicopter Ben and his cronies do.

Of course, you can make predictable jokes that only anarchists would laugh at. That's the catch-22.

I changed my mind on my opinion about this person, Synaptic..after asking people on #lesswrong



Now that being said, CaptainZinn gave me some valuable feedback:

He said 1 and 2 comics are simply not funny. Bitsquirrel is good. 3, 5, 6 praised bitcoin too much.

Hey guys, just found the topic. To be honest, I couldn't figure out anything during last week for the newest comic, and that was all I could come up with in the end. I also have a very limited time to work on the comic each week due to long hours working on my main projects, and I'm mostly doing it out of love for bitcoin. I try my best with what I have, and welcome any constructive criticism, so thanks for the comments.

If anybody has any cool ideas for new comics you want to give us, I'm open to hearing them, too.

 ;D

Might be late for me to offer advice.  If so, then please ignore. 

(If not, then please donate bitcoin!)

I recommend that you examine SP:
http://somethingpositive.net/

The drawing style is similar to yours, although not an exact match.

SP threads/storylines are not the best, and the subject matter is not the best. 

Nevertheless, SP has a large and loyal following.  The cynical humor and presentation techniques are pretty good. 

If you look into the archives, you will see that there are multiple storylines.  Each storyline is presented in small bursts, with several or many sequential daily pages used to present a burst, over a week or two of time. 

Also, the data base allows reading individual pages in chronological order, or in subject order.  And the pages in a given burst can be identified from the title/name (in the archive listing) without need to read the entire burst.  There are quite a few singleton pages...pages that tell a more or less complete story in one day...but I find these to be less interesting. 

Most of the storylines are related to each other, and there are many cross-references.  This is a bit confusing to a new reader.  But I find that it makes the complete body of work more interesting. 

If you read from the beginning (which will take a long, long time) you will note that all of the characters have an interesting...or at least plausible...back story that explains how each character is related to another. 

I could say more, but will wait a bit, to see comments from other forum members.

Oh yes...this is my favorite comic. 
http://www.bitcoinweekly.com/comics/bitcoin-future

- TFeagle

Note: Please send all extra/surplus BTC/XCB to = 1FKHCUrKR8ahAFHP44pvbURsRxtfrgoNgG

Hey now, let's be clear here: I never meant to suggest you were a poor quality person based on my opinion that your comics are utterly moronic and bereft of any humorous value.

On the contrary, you could be a youth or someone suffering a clinical mental deficiency, or someone who is simply without a developed sense of humor or apropos which causes you to produce such tripe, yet still be a wonderful human being otherwise.

You could be a great parent to happy youngsters, or proficient at a music instrument.  You could have super-model looks, or excel at academic pursuits.

Then again, you could also be a pederast, animal torturer, or general sociopath/psychotic.

I really have no idea, nor to I have any iota of a desire to find out.

All I know is that your "comics" are utter crap and you'd probably be better off doing something that draws on one of your natural talents, and if I'm to compliment you at all here, it's that you MUST have SOME type of talent that's appreciably more developed than comedy...

EDIT: And of course, these are merely the opinions of someone far, far away, and completely inconsequential to your life's progression, so don't let it derail your roll.

 

I am totally aggree with RchGrav.

I like your comic OP  :D
I know its hard to make a good one, but still you are doing great.

And don't listen to cynically bullshit crap.

I enjoy your comic OP, Thanks.
Keep up the good works, keep 'em coming  ;)

I really like the comics, usually  :)

And every comic has a bad one once in a while, I don't see the problem really...

At the very least mention your favorite and comic you don't find funny/least laughed.

Nice to know that I have fans though.

Comedy is simply hard. Those who are good at it probably spent a lot of time practicing and iterating.

I like the mascot comic, it was cute and I think I would had laughed even if I didn't know what bitcoin was about. I would had laughed harder if "Bitbird" looked like BigBird from Sesame street :D

Rate would had been funny I guess... if I knew about bitcoin during the price spike last month

Fiat Kingdom (first thing that came to mind on the burning frame was "King sends Synaptic to flame bitcoin forums" :D) , Future and Windmill was just eh?

Squirrel was funny but it's not going to make sense to somebody who doesn't know anything about bitcoin. But then again if your target audience is just the bitcoin crowd, this probably won't be an issue. But humour is always a good way to raise profile/awareness of something so if you can get something funny that appeals to the non-BC folks, it would help bring positive attention to Bitcoin if the comic gets shared purely because it's funny on its own.

It seems like all the comics are funny to somebody.

Some comics received more scorn than others. Some barely make people laugh.

Very interesting.

Of course, I wish to up the effectiveness of Bitcoin Weekly's comics.

As a graphical commentary on the current memes doing the rounds in the bitcoin community - the comic serves a purpose I guess!

'Fiat Kingdom'  made little sense unless the point was to demonstrate the naivety of the bitcoin true-believers.
Why wouldn't the king just either take his tax in bitcoins, or sacks of wheat or liens over their land etc?


 

It really wasn't as bad as I was expecting after reading the thread. You can clearly draw well, and I liked Bitcoin Squirrel.

Yeah, I don't understand that point either. If you "owe" taxes according to the powers that be in your area of residence, you owe the taxes. Sure they can't seize your Bitcoins, nor can they without a doubt prove you own them... but that won't stop taxation. Many places and agencies don't even need solid proof of your income and more or less are free to go off what they think you should be making given your industry/location/etc.

If your employer pays you in Bitcoins, they can easily compel your employer to withhold the back taxes the same way they do if your employer pays you in any other currency. If you still won't pay up what they think you owe, they won't go "get a real job" - they'll throw your ass in jail until the Bitcoins fall out.

"It's untaxable!" is a giant stain on Bitcoin's reputation in more ways than one, and the less that's spoken about that sentiment the better in terms of public perception, I think.

I like the comic.

Do not have the writer change because it is his art, unless Joey Dangerous wants to start catering to whatever audience must be messaging him or you about this (I mean, this stems from somewhere).  I think I've said it before though, without even having to mention a specific strip, the comics from Bitcoin Weekly have always felt super super strong in almost a blind Bitcoin support sometimes with attitude or feeling, so if I could critique them, I would say that, but even saying that I enjoy the comic and don't feel that is a huge negative, in fact, that is what makes the comic strip unique to me.

Add more comic strips.    What newspaper only has one comic anyways?   I have no doubts there are plenty of artists that would donate a comic strip to your site for free, it exposes themselves and gives people more reason to come to the site for the big draw of the full on Weekly magazine.

More contributions maybe.  Variety for those who aren't fans of his.  I like his work.

I like http://z1x.dk/'s a lot.

I want more Bitcoin webcomics.

Keep in mind that Joey Dangerous was responsible for the art.

Bland meta humor appealing to a very miniscule niche of the community who likes being told they are right; and anarchistic squirrels for the other comic.

I don't view arts as a static thing that don't change. Art is part of culture and culture mutate and changes as they become more used. I hope Joey Dangerous thinks the same way too.

I think you took what I wrote a different way, I do not disagree with what you wrote, as long as that is what personally motivates Joey on whatever given pieces or projects he is working on, then change will come naturally.  I cant imagine art as a static thing by any definition, it is all perspective and interpretation anyways, so yeah, I have to re-read what I wrote and see how that came out of that lol.

While we're all here, if anyone has any suggestions for what you would like to see from my Bitcoin Weekly articles, I'd be glad to hear them - either here or commenting on the site is good. My articles for this week are close to done already, but I'll be sure to keep them in mind for next week and the future!

I meant something different, jokes about ourselves, as in members of the bitcoin community. What are the strange we do, and how can that be put in a joke?

I dunno, like some of us are disappointed that the BTC price on MtGox is now stable and doesn't swing with 30% in a few hours anymore... or having the urge to check how your miners are doing 24 hours a day.... or arguing over the late payment of 1 BTC....

Then you got to figure out how to build a joke around that.

Good tactic for getting feedback.

I'd say there's room for improvement but many of the people here and in your comments are simply trolling you. You (or "Joey Dangerous") have a good style for the comics and while none of them are laugh out loud funny this one is clever http://www.bitcoinweekly.com/comics/bitcoin-future (http://www.bitcoinweekly.com/comics/bitcoin-future).

You have work ahead of you with the humor but you are not in "crap" range by my judgment.

The drawing is good, the writing is painfully dull.

Wont look again.

Don't let him get to ya.. He's always an a*hole like that.

For your comic, I like this one best
http://www.bitcoinweekly.com/comics/bitcoin-future

I think a good point to make jokes of would be to make fun/exaggerated something every bitcoin users lamented about.. eg. Mt.Gox, Dollars, non-techie people thinking bitcoin's a scam... etc.

I've read a fair few webcomics. I find the art in the comic good, strong style and visually memorable. Like any art there's room for improvment, but it communicates well and doesn't distract.

As for the actual writing/content/etc. You've decided to go for a set of one shot comics, with vague continuity. Not a bad format, but it requires you put more effort into each individual comic to make it stand up on its own.

Bitcoin Mascots - I found this cute, it actually had personality behind it and a setup people could understand. I actually expected the two people talking would become recurring characters.

Bitcoin Rate - Kinda a "slice of life" thing here. It expresses a real life event in a slightly exaggerated way to make it's point. It's fine for communicating what happened, but there's not humourous twist or really any comedy to it; more like "look what happened to me".
If people are interested in what happened, that's fine, if they're not, there's nothing in the comic to pull them in.
It's also a little awkward as the Bitcoin rate will have a very turbulent future, so after a steep dive (like the recent one from $30), it's harder to accept this comic.

Bitcoin Future - Here you basically imagine what the future will be like and express how the established order of things could be inverted.
That's kinda it really.

Bitsquirrel - I actually find this one kinda cute and funny. It's reliant on people understanding the values of the increase in bitcoins though.

The Gavinator - Kinda reads like a propeganda poster.

Fiat Kingdom - Kinda your worst one. It's basically pushing across your political beliefs without anything to back it up.


The positives:
You are making the comic, you wish to improve, you can write the occasionally funny line and take inspiration from the Bitcoin community and while not everyone may like it, it has a decent quality to it though nothing amazing.

The negatives:
The comic fulfills the criteria of "comic for people who want to read comics involving Bitcoins" and contributes to the Bitcoin culture, but it dosn't do much more than that.
There are a couple of styles that the comic approaches, but doesn't do well enough in any of them.
If you wish to make it more funny and "gag-a-day", you need a more humour with wittier dialogue and funnier scenarios, the objective should be to make the personal laugh a priority.
If you wish to make it more "this is my vision of Bitcoins", expect not everyone to go for it, but compensate but making the scenarios you envision(Bitcoin Future for example) richer with more detail and atmosphere to communicate what you imagine Bitcoins to be.
If you want to make it more political (Fiat Kingdom), you need to improve your sense of wit and social satire including more detail arguments and insights into the statments you are trying to make.
It'll take you a bit of time to find the style of comics that suit you best, but my best advice is to preserver through nonconstructive critizism (ie. people who critizise you as a person rather than the comic itself) and try to do different things. Push yourself, read up on various other comics to gain hints or techniques, and overall find what you want to express in your comics and try to convey it in the best way possible.

I hope this is some help

I disagree. The squirrel getting crushed is still an unexpected outcome. I think that's humorous.

This is what I wish to focus on.

Though, comedic comics won't be the only things we will focus on. I got the idea of pivoting to educational comics or perhaps stories involving bitcoin. However, they probably takes more effort and capital to write, which is not what Bitcoin Weekly have at the time. We're still building our warchest.