Bitcoin Forum

hi, visited this site bitcoinary.com and a guy offered to sell me 60btc in exchange for paypal. here is what he said:



Rate is www.mtgox.com current value +3%. If you pay via moneypak there is no fee.

Paypal Instructions:

1) Send money AS A GIFT to jackherrenton@gmail.com VIA Paypal
(YOU MUST SEND AS A GIFT)
-Regardless of the amount you send, I will reimburse you with bitcoins to the address you provide at the current mtgox rate +3% fee
(Minimum $150, Max $35000)

2) You will then open a dispute on the paypal charge for whatever reason you may choose

3) You will close the dispute

4) You will provide me with a bitcoin address to send to

5) You will have to wait until I can verify all of your information so I can insure that there will not be a chargeback. (24-72 Hours) Or If you have and ID and such you can provide matching the paypal information there will be no wait.



what do you guys think?

I think you should use an exchange.

i read about opening a dispute and the closing it again. paypal says once the dispute has been closed, it cant be opened again. no charge back, nothing at all.

https://www.paypal.com/helpscr?cmd=_help&locale=en_GB&countrycode=GB&_dyncharset=UTF-8&t=solutionTab&ps=solutionPanels&solutionId=163624


so its more like the seller secures his paypal funds via this dispute open and close method and its likely he absconds and i wont get any coins.

Yeah, once you've filed a dispute and closed the dispute he could quite easily simply not pay your allocated BTC. Unless he has a great reputation (and even then these things can happen), personally I would avoid it or if your determined for it to go through do it via escrow.

It used to work before (the open/close dispute to avoid scams).
But you can still charge back a close dispute if your paypal account got hacked.


Of course, imagine someone stole your paypal account.
He paid 1 000 usd with it to himself. Just open a dispute and close it.

And you are fucked? You can't get your money back?
Of course, you can. You just call paypal, and they will fix it out.



Otherwise, paypal would be flawed: all hackers will use that trick to steal money from compromised account.
And also, it is not possible to open a dispute for digital goods (like bitcoins), or with transaction without fees (to friends/relatives).

Neverless, it is always possible to open a dispute in case of a hack.


Which is the method people use to charge back (legit hack, or not...).

tl;dr:

Stupid to ask to open/close a dispute.
Digital stuff can't be disputed.
Sending as gift transactions can't be disputed.
It will only add a third reason to unable to open a dispute.

But it is still possible to charge back :)

Yes it can.

No.
https://www.paypal-community.com/t5/Sending-and-receiving-money/Personal-Payment-Gift-Can-it-be-disputed/td-p/582878
https://www.paypal-community.com/t5/Sending-and-receiving-money/Sent-money-as-gift-can-t-dispute-but-got-scammed/td-p/470353
https://www.paypal-community.com/t5/Disputes-and-claims/Gift-Payment-Dispute/td-p/415283?profile.language=en-gb

Toss in a CC dispute and PP will side with the CC. PP will NOT lose any money period, gift or otherwise.

Did you even read my post? Or the tl;dr version?
If yes, try to understand it. ::)



I said that it was possible to charge back every transactions, even gifts, or with open/close dispute.
I just said that it was not possible to open a dispute:
- once it was already closed once.
- if you sent as a gift.
- for a virtual good.

So basically, I said that the open / close dispute method was just a third way of doing something that was already done twice before. ::)
And I never said that it could not be charged back. I said the opposite.

Just in case it wasn't clear from the other posts, there is zero chance of you ever seeing any Bitcoin in return for your money.
You are being scammed.