Bitcoin Forum

At today our group buy  (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=200067.0) has not yet received the refund for Order #10605 made on June 8, 2013.


Since many groups buy that placed orders later than our already been refunded, I'm starting to be worried that Yifu wants to send us chips instead of the reimbursement.
If it is so, we don't want those worthless chips anymore, with a delay greater than 1 month (and counting). When the "no bullshits" terms have become "yes bullshits", the refund was due, and more time flies, more worthless are the chips.

Our group buy and John K. already sent refund requests many times, via ticket support, e-mail and received no answer. So I prefer don't wait until chips are shipped (if this is the case) but I'm preparing to sue Avalon and Yifu for Terms of Contract broken. I already talked with my lawyer and, despite he isn't so skilled in the bitcoin field, he gave me no doubt that a lawsuit action is possible.

So, if anyone is interested in participate, members from my group buy or not, please write here or send me a pm, for the time being just tell what country you are from and which group buy you belong.
I'll post here further details in the next days, although I hope to receive the refund from Avalon and avoid this whole shit.


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Update - 17 September

I wrote to the Commercial Crime Services of International Chamber of Commerce explaining the case and asking how to proceed for a lawsuit and a class action.

Some of the points brought to the attention were:

- Refusing to refund the purchase, despite delays in the delivery of more than 2 months, and despite that delays caused the goods to become useless
- Used merchandise sold as new
- Delay in delivery of goods and non-fulfillment of the estimated delivery time
- No compensation for lost months waiting for the promised goods


I'll inform you as soon as they will answer us.

Good job. Whoever is responsible for this mess must pay.

Avalon has refunded me, but I think these bunch of fuckers do need some lesson. They shoud be punished for what they havr done. please do make your lawyer bring Yifu to court, and I will pay for your lawyer 2000 usd for bring justice to thi
is liar. PM me about the detail.

I am part of bizwoo's GB1. At this point the only thing I want is for them to ...

Give us the money.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFDTZNrinpw

Member of GB1 also

There have been several refund requests made and we dont want the chips, absolutely no reason why this hasnt been refunded yet

Member of bizwoo's GB1 as well. Sign me up.

+1M

I have evidence he fucked me up for my trade-ins.  Whatever it takes, make this motherfucker pay.

Ragin's group buy went to shit as well..  we are looking for refund but worried too that they may ship the junk chips at somepoint

Please note that I have refunded the GB#2 funds that were sent to me about 3 days ago->

Refund processed， tx: https://blockchain.info/tx/f6c82cfe5471f6d4e516d5aa3da3aec4656fd8bcd9466c52050a21513bb0a3f8

Whew, that took about 1 hour.  :)

Cheers,
John

Member of bizwoo's GB1 as well. Sign me up.

i bet no one will sue them ... just talk as usual

Thank you John but this thread refers to Batch #1.
And since batch #2 made about 1 month later has already been refunded, our delay is more shady

If Avalon sends the refund, I'm probably not going to sue anyone and save a lot of time and efforts that a sue needs.
But if Avalon really wants to send us his chips, well, if a lawsuit is the only way to let them to open ears and defend our rights, so will.

In less than 24 hours, I've already received PMs from highly interested people, inted to spend money to support this action (HorseRider is one of them)...

No need to sue them. Just let IC3 know what's going on and they will take it from there.

Edit: It doesn't matter where you're from. They also care if you're a foreigner.

Awesome advice .... :D

JohnK, when are you going to address Raginazn's group buy? What the hell is going on?

Yifu send the damn refund, please

Member of bizwoo's GB1 as well. Sign me up.

Member of bizwoo's GB1 as well. Sign me up.

I'm waiting refunds for an amount of over 2300 BTC. I'm putting every day updates on the ticket and post new refund forms, but still nothing.

Yifu, this way of acting is unacceptable, I "could" understand you had issues with the chip delivery but I can't accept that it takes so long to keep your word and send out the promised refunds.

I wasn't thinking about joining a lawsuit but if Bitsyncom keeps on ignoring my refund requests I'll reconsider my strategy.

Does anyone in this thread have any experience with something like this?  Know a lawyer friend who does?  What is the process or how is it best to proceed?

He is a 24 year old boy who thinks can talk himself out of anything.  Guess what?
IRS and IC3 might differ.

Collating evidence that exists will be the toughest part as that takes motivation and a bit of leg work.

Fact is most people on this forum are too lazy to do this, and to be honest I think most manufacturers here lie out of their behinds knowing full well getting a collective to agree to do something like class action lawsuits are too hard and act in the faith people will just give up and won't bother. If they had a sole financier they would be out of a chunk of equity in their 'business', and would have the shit sued out of them in event of failure to deliver, which would be a lot easier as it would be one angry party against those at fault. Basically you cannot afford to pass the buck, you need to take the bull by the horns, collate as much evidence as possible and make your legal aid's life as easy as possible so he/she/they can focus on what they are skilled at, representing you, their client(s).

I don't think Bitsyncom started out like this, but somewhere along the way they began to lie, behave corrupt and are now confident if they appease a few, the rest will just shut up, the principle doesn't matter. Look how many are willing to forgive for a refund, or promise for a future non-existent product that offers no real value even when/if it does exist.

Butterfly Labs have gotten away with this strategy for ages. I mean look they only need to claim to be working in a new 28nm product and formerly disgruntled customers fall silently back in queue.

Hashfast change their; 'terms of sale' almost daily, they did it 4-5 times last week. I'm waiting for people to notice the huge revision there made last week on the 11/09 and revised several times since, it completely screws their customers over. Fact is though they will learn the hard way when the product is delivered late and/or under spec. why do you think they have gone out of their way to remove ALL accountability, recourse and warranty? By that point you have a bunch of angry customers that have all agree to differing terms - a total nightmare for a lawyer to deal with, and they know it.

Always thoroughly read though and save the terms of sale, contract of sale you agree to, especially with the sharks you are dealing with in the unregulated Bitcoin mining world. It's common sense, whilst we have the freedom of choice and lack of authoritarian oversight currently, you have to remain very astute, as they couldn't give two sh*ts as long as you fund their NRE and once it's done, they don't need you anymore. Plus crowdsourcing is a lot less aggro for them and rarely does it cost them equity on their part, they also prey on the fact you'll be too disorganised to get your sh*t together beyond talking about it. Words mean nada.

 Wow.  :o I presume this was a group buy?

+1 what a nightmare. Hopefully they deliver as promised.

Member of bizwoo's GB1 as well. Sign me up.

I am sad to see that so many still haven't gotten a refund from YiFu. I have to say that he made good on his promise to a lot of us.

However, if you are still without a refund due to YiFu's fault and not the group buyer's fault for requesting the refund from YiFu; you might be able to start a small claim filing in your local area courthouse. Most in the US are limited to $5,000 - so if your total is more than that, you'll need other avenues. But I had the forms filled out and ready to file if the refunds were not given as promised.

Check into your local court municipality (I can only verify that the US is an option) and at least file the paperwork so you have SOME chance of getting your funds back. Document everything you can also.

Spain. Member of bizwoo's GB1 as well. Sign me up.

Well, the money flow is well documented in the bitcoin chain. A wiki-like collaborative platform is needed to collectively build a nice case against him.

Yifu refund the damn chips, please

YiFuuuuuu!! .....Order #10605 made on June 8 has still not been refunded. Time to pump up your CHI again. Refund the pending refund requests m8.

Update

I wrote to the Commercial Crime Services of International Chamber of Commerce explaining the case and asking how to proceed for a lawsuit and a class action.

Some of the points brought to the attention were:

- Refusing to refund the purchase, despite delays in the delivery of more than 2 months, and despite that delays caused the goods to become useless
- Used merchandise sold as new
- Delay in delivery of goods and non-fulfillment of the estimated delivery time
- No compensation for lost months waiting for the promised goods


I'll inform you as soon as they will answer us.

Did you get your refund today?

Refund has been requested for Order #10605 made on June 8 several times and STILL not refunded, looks like we have been left hanging by Yifu

Bizwoo's GB1 - Poland - sign me up too

Better late than never!!

Not really... what would have been better is this.

THE CHIPS WERE DELIVERED ON TIME!

Nice to see there are still dreamers among us!

I know the OP's GB was refunded, but /bump anyway.  Shouldn't let this die out now.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=298294.msg3195155#msg3195155

I'm still not out from this. I'm waiting an answer from ICC-CCS

Good man.