Bitcoin Forum

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Block erupters are not profitable.

Yes I know that, I'm not buying them to make ROI solely from them. Maybe you should re read the post.

your national ID does not load and i see no TX info or proof of repayment.

Nowhere does it say why you think that buying Block Erupters will be a good idea.

The facts are very simple. If you have 1 BTC and you spend it on BEs, you will receive less than 1 BTC of mining income. Sure you can use what income you get to invest and try to profit from investments. But if you just kept your 1 BTC and invested it immediately you'd have more BTC.

Your offer of 5% of the loan as collateral in the form of BTC is pointless. The whole purpose of collateral is something for the loan-giver to keep / sell when the loan isn't paid back. Consequently, the value of the collateral needs to be at least as much as the amount loaned for it to be useful.

check yet again, negotiating was done over PM. Added TX info to post.

I understand what you are saying but I think you're not putting what I've posted into context. I've added some text to help clarify.

Why do you want to buy so many BEs then?  If you don't want to make ROI, make money, then what do you want to do? :P

Is the rationale of starting a bitcoin based business with an interest in investing and mining, to actually have bitcoins? If you think yes then I think you can follow my logic when I stated: I am fully committed to starting a bitcoin mining/investment/useable tech company for southern Africa.

That means having a viable means of generating bitcoin, even if it is below ROI.

Hope that answers.

Edit:

Please also notice that I mentioned USB BE's OR 2 Blades, not both. I think it goes without saying that I would prefer to purchase blades.

Buying 30 BEs will make you around $6 USD a day, without electricity costs or anything.  How is that a business?  I'm not trying to bring it down, I'm just wondering.

So you're trying to borrow BTC, which you will spend on BE's which in turn will give you a steady income for a total amount of less BTC than you borrowed. In what universe does this make sense? What value does it add to your company that it has a few units hashing and never making a profit?

I have factored in electricity cost. My business idea is to combine the following:

Mining
Investment/Trading
App/Tech development

An overview of the plan is, in the first month I will mine preferably (and I think im sure now exclusively) from 2 blades. at current tech capability that will be a minimum of 20 GH generating at current difficulty around 0.0893btc p/24h for 2.679 btc per month. 40% ROI goes directly towards repayment. Another 40% goes toward low risk investment and 20% towards USB BE purchases so that my team here can take it apart and take a better look at it. Second month I do the same but add the USB BE's and I think I'll be able to purchase two in 2nd month to add on to hashing power of rig.

I will do this consecutively each month as profitably allows. All returns from investment will immediately go toward completing loan repayment before I take any profits for the business.

I will also be contributing minimum 10% of my earnings/pm from business I already have towards the loan to make sure I stay on track if need be. I believe I am savvy enough to get adept at investment/trading to be able to generate loan repayment solely from this aspect.

Once we have a working grasp of mining hardware/ bitcoin network structure we will look at app/ tech development. An idea we've been throwing around is deving a lo fi game that allows locals in Namibia to interact with bitcoin through simple mobile gaming. We will iterate idea, to idea until we actually have a value proposition and a product/ service of some sort.

It's very general but I believe this requires flexibility.

In a universe where we'd literally be the first business country wide to have anything to do with bitcoin.
To gain momentum in regards to growing our hashing power to eventually become profitable we have to start with infrastructure.

So you're the first in the country? And what about it? It doesn't make mining with USB BE's any unprofitable. For every BTC you put into those thngs you get 0.5 BTCs out (as an example, the actual value will be different). Where does the other 0.5 come from to make you break even? Hint: It doesn't happen.

You say you want to take them apart to see how they work. Well, unless you have an electron microscope and knowledge of microchips, you're not going to figure it out. A USB BE is a chip on a small PCB. There are a few components on the PCB to manage power flow to the chip as well as to communicate over the USB port. But the real work is being done in the chip. And you're not going to just take it apart and find out how it works.

I seriously question your business skills if you think that putting in X amount of money (the loan) to receive periodic payments (mining income), the total of which will *never* add up to X, is a good idea. If you want a constant income stream (why?), just put the loan amount in a cold wallet and transfer part of it to your active wallet periodically. There, you're generating "income" and you'll get more than you'd ever get by buying USB BE's.

I stated in the first post:

Immediate small returns I will smartly invest using bitstamp, mtgox and low risk investment plans like flatbitcoin.com which I am already doing.
The core purpose of this first mining/investment run will be to repay the loan.

Please don't be condescending. We are all smart tertiary level educated people.

You should maybe look around and different prices on the block erupters. Even I sell for $25 in Bitcoin. And, I know I'm not the cheapest.

Thanks, will definitely keep that in mind. Although my idea is to buy 2 BE blades at 10 gh/s each at the beginning and then use a percentage of income made (from trading/investment) to purchase USB erupters along the way in subsequent months.

I have taken what I believe your core criticisms are and rewrote my first post to be more clear on what I intend to do. Thanks for the observations.

I am upping interest on loan to 15% for a whopping 1.11 :D btc return. Today I started mining litecoin on the 6670 and I am considering assigning one of the blades that would be purchased solely to litecoin as efficiency seems to beat bitcoin by a mile right now.

LTC Blades are being sold where?

I don't know what LTC blades are, I mean that one of the BE blades that would be purchased with the loan would be assigned to the task of litecoin mining.

I'm out.

I think that I've now earned the right to be condescending.

I concede, that post earns me a dunce cap.

I will not be using BE to mine litecoin as that is currently not possible. Initial loan request stands at 15% over 6 months.

Currently = not ever.

I'm not going to attempt to predict what can and cannot happen in the future in regards to bitcoin tech development. From what I understand, it would be a lengthy, expensive and difficult process to optimize ASIC memory for scrypt algorithms but it's not impossible.

Regardless of what will be developed for Litecoin-specific purposes, a Block Erupter (blade or USB) will *never* be able to mine Litecoins.

no it doesn't.

LOL  ;D ;D ;D

http://www.coindesk.com/asic-miners-litecoin-soon/