Bitcoin Forum

the other thread was asking if Bitcoin will survive in 2018. My answer, 'definitely it will survive because someone (few) will make a killing again'.

don't take this as personal question. take this objectively and look what on the other side of the coin.

Bitcoin is a noble project to admire, but is this for everyone to get involve or just  for speculative investment and limit only to few?

I don't get mad when people tell me what an idiot I am, or how my work is not recognised, or how everything I've ever done for work and career isn't specialised. I don't get mad especially on this forum, where I expect all the time to be exposed and proven wrong by the very smart people who visit.

Will you not get mad if I say that the multi-billion dollar pump and dump that you might think Bitcoin is, is nothing compared to the hundreds of billions of dollar pumps and dumps that have been happening for decades on other currencies/assets? Should we even compare?

Objectively, I will unfortunately have to agree that almost everyone here sees Bitcoin as an investment and by degree of that view are speculators, and by degree of them holding it cannot afford to be anything else. Those who only see its "noble" aspirations tend not to have much, as they use and spend it for all purposes intended. Price is not of any consequence to them.

fair play to you

Well said!

  ;)

Unfortunately people still look on bitcoin as an investment, and that will not change anytime soon. People that invested high amount of money into bitcoin want to make profit from that, and those huge investment will have small impact on bitcoins price. Only if large number of people decide to sell, that could affect price on larger scale.
If people with serious money started investing into bitcoin, that means they have seen potential in it and want to participate. Even if its only because of profit, they indirectly support bitcoin.

Not at all! I will respect your opinion. It makes a lot of sense as well. We're at the mercy of whales, who can collude with each other and start a massive snowball of sell-offs to kill the public's perception of Bitcoin. Once it gets overtaken by ETH or pretty much anything else, I doubt it would be easy to get back up. Are whales going to do that though? Nope, as you said, because they make a killing out of Bitcoin, and no one will want to kill their goose that lays golden eggs. They're not going to want others to kill it either.

Pump and dump is such an ugly term, but I can't deny that either. We know that market manipulation exists to some level and it's certainly being used for profit.

respect to you

Those who invest in bitcoin will really find a way how to get some profit out of it.  Other may say there are strategies  The pump and dump sounds that not a good word when you talk about millions of money that are involved into it.  Considering the small investor who is just waiting the speculation themselves than those investors who tend to manipulate the game. 

I'm sure many of us would want to tell you off straight off the bat, but to think objectively, I would have to say that you're partly correct. Bitcoin is at the mercy of many pumps and dumps and price manipulation.

The good news is, as BTC's price continues to rise, it's getting far more difficult to pump and dump it like they do alts. It's not easy to buy thousands of bitcoins when one bitcoin becomes $50,000 in value.

But it will always be in demand the more people find out about it. It's the first worldwide payments system that's free of governmental control. The government would have to shut down or restrict the internet in all countries in order to fully control bitcoin. It's not easy to find out if someone has a paper wallet... it would be an invasion of privacy to figure it out.

Think about it. It's a sophisticated, secure way to send money around the world instantly without banks or governments interfering. That's quite revolutionary. For bitcoin to suddenly lose any value is ridiculous.

And if you'd like to talk about pumps and dumps... see the US dollar. It's massively manipulated. The US gov has been in debt for the longest time. We're still in debt to China in the trillions! The banks raise or lower interest rates to control whether we spend or save dollars to control inflation and prevent deflation.

Did you know every fiat that stopped being backed by gold or silver has failed? Well the US dollar has been in trouble ever since Nixon took it off the gold standard. Now the US dollar is simply backed by "the full faith and credit of the US." <-- what kind of BS is that? No one in their right mind would believe in the value of the US dollar if they read that line.

There's literally nothing backing up the US dollar except for a fake reputation that the whole world wants to uphold because the whole world's different fiats are baked by the US dollar now.

The real reason why the government is scared of crypto is because it's about to pull the curtains from the lies and fake grandeur that the US dollar and other relying fiats have been pulling over everyone's eyes! THE US DOLLAR IS LIKE BITCOONNNEECT.

Do you want to know the real reason why bitcoin's price kept going up? Because it couldn't be suppressed by banks and governments just like they were suppressing gold and silver by shorting exchanges en masse.

For once, we have an actual currency that's true and backed by real value. Bitcoin and other cryptos will revolutionize the world... and I fear it will be either ugly or magnificently beautiful. But from the way the world is reacting to crypto... it will be ugly.

Long time traders have learned to live with it. Its obvious that a few people with enough btc can sway the market to their preference and us little fishes should learn how to simply swim with the tide they create. Fuds, government bans, regulations, all this i'm sure has little effect on these people who are simply observing how weak hands react

Bitcoin should not be more than $100 if it has to be used for payments/currency.

How many people buy Gold at $1350/ounce ??

everyone is entitled to their opinion guys.
Bitcoin is something that came out of brilliant mind/s that made it.  and it somehow paved the way to soooo many potential uses and advantages.
It's been said, it's revolutionizing the digital world..and with that anyone that has internet access can get their hand on it.
but of course it is not new that a few hands on deck can control it, just like any other currencies.

there are brilliant  things/inventions that are noble in their conception but not practical to use.
Should we fall in love to its beauty and that we know it will break our heart later?

Bitcoin has gone well beyond the ability of even the whales to completely control. However, because most of the people buying and selling bitcoin are unsophisticated investors, they are easy to manipulate. The recent panic we saw had most retail investors selling straight to the whales at $6k. Those same whales have made a fortune on just the bounce back. There is no evidence though of it being a pump and dump operation. This was just banks and other big players taking advantage of a panic. If anything when bitcoin was hitting $20k banks were trying to tell everyone bitcoin had gotten ahead of itself and not to buy.

could we say that the noble thing about bitcoin is only good at the paper but it could not transcend to its practice.

Its like communism , good at the idea but never seen the on its implementation

(apology to my analogy)

Pay attention to this level

it is interesting how you contradicted yourself within a few weeks!

you started this topic telling us that YOU believe that bitcoin is a pump and dump scheme, then today you are using technical analysis on the thing you believe is a pump and dump!

so which one is it? if it is a pump and dump then the comment i quoted is a total nonsense. if it isn't and you know TA works on it then this topic is a total nonsense...

yes, it will survive) and not only in 2018 but also in the distant future))

if every bitcoin bagholders are hodlers looking for lambo, how did it lose 70% of its value? Who dumped the bitcoin?

I believe you. I learned a lot about bitcoin fluctuations and I realized that soon. Before that I had to lose a lot of money because I had no experience of speculation. Since I knew it, I had a different strategy and I had a lot of profit.
The whales control the bitcoin and we must obey the orders of the whales.

The technology is controlled by the community but not the price. The price belongs to someone else. Whoever dictates the price of bitcoin follows rules, analysis, timing, and coordination.
To be protected, before saying to the moon, we must learn to swim along with the whales.

You are wrong, technology is not controlled by community. Big companies and certain people decide what is available for common people like us, and what is for companies and people at the top. We all know that certain technology could not be bought. But Bitcoin is not like other technology, it belongs to all of us.
As for its price, community can "control" the price, but also can whales who posses large number of Bitcoins. And no one can "dictate" price of Bitcoin, and there are no rules when it comes to trading. Analysis can help, and so could other things that you mention. But no one can predict for certain what is coming next. Its all speculations.

The way Mms are playing with BTC in last two months by squeezing the longs and shorts equally, it won't be wrong calling Bitcoin a pump and dump. Recently, Whales were dumping their longs by stopping out shorts via wash trading. Wash trading can easily move the market with just $3-5 million, whales hit the stops of shorts and threw there longs on short liquidations. 

I can bet that all this is happening hand in glove with big exchanges as whales are exploiting the huge data feeds of stops,  longs & shorts .

If this is not an organised pump and dump, then what is?

Still hovering at 200 SMA.

Is 200 SMA a support or resistance?

I really agree with your statement that bitcoin is a pump and dump system, and bitcoin will definitely recover its price at a higher price.

Its depends primarily on your skills and on the situation you are in, if you are a trader and you have the enough skills to take advantage of the market this can be favorable to you because what ever the dump and pump you can earn trading is indeed based on your skills but if you are a hodler or a investor FUD can weaken your understanding in the market and make your decisions waver.

maybe bitcoin will survive in 2018. and so on  ;)

I respect your opinion but not the thoughts of many people. Many bitcoin investors believe that it's time to get bitcoin more demand because many establishments and online shopping will accept bitcoin as payment in the future.

#Datarius

People who doesnt know bitcoin might think its just a pump.and dump situation. Maybe bitcoin is dumping at the moment but its just part of the system. I a not sure if this dumping of this exchange is causing all this havoc, but i am sure that after they finish all their work, bitcoin will rise again and reach it another record high price. Bitcoin for me is a thing created to test your patience and make you strategic in doing it in trading. But as of now, those who still believe in bitcoins capacity to regain its value, need to stay and keep holding. Who knows people who keep bitcoin down will regret in the end.

well i guess you right

And the rest of "alt coins" are not noble ? xDDDD seriously. The "free people" thing is just bullshit.

Objectively: there is no real need for cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin burning electricity and definitively it has 0 value. The only value it has is a self-fulfilled prophecy, but if no one is using it for real other than for trading then well... no value.

Also it is complex to use, plus you have to pay an extra for every single transaction. To the miners....

The OP made a common mistake by equalizing BTC to the trading market. BTC is the base of the overall cryptocurrency universe. It consists of the network, miners, holders, merchants and all. Short term pump and dump schemes of course are many but that's unavoidable in any open markets and somewhat even positive in the long run as it attracts attention from the public.

I am not mad because I know bitcoin will always make a pump and a dump right now and in the future. bitcoin will survive for a long time and we can see the price increases again and bitcoin will survive in 2018 and the next years. but if you have your own opinion, then I think it is fine because we are free to say everything. we still waiting for the price back to higher again and we still have time to see the price start to rise in this year so just waiting for a while is the best we can do.

Yes I will get mad because I have a lot of investment at bitcoin not only a money but also a time and effort that I was invest for almost a year that I do things or business about bitcoin. But that is okay because I know that the real meaning and purpose of bitcoin will be happen to all of us and I will stay do and invest at bitcoin even I heard something negative to other people. Because I know what I want and I know what I do so I wont listen to their negative opinion. And I know that when many people are still negative about bitcoin,bitcoin will more powerful and will rise again.

There is no point to getting mad as it only serves to cloud your judgement. Myself I like and support Bitcoin, but I can also see at the same time that there are other interests aligned against it, both for profit and other reasons.

Also, since there is money to be made it would be foolish to think there is no manipulation going on in the markets.

I often suspect a lot of the manipulation (in price) is due to the exchanges themselves. I have a suspicion that if one could hypothetically buy up all the Bitcoin on all the exchanges you would end up with more than the 21 million supply.

This would be quite the trick considering only about 17 million Bitcoin have been mined, and some of that is locked up and/or permanently inaccessible. So in essence I believe some exchanges might be listing more Bitcoin than they could truly sell thus helping to contribute to the massive price manipulations we have been witnessing.

This combined with practices such as some exchanges providing leverage and now the CBOE and CME futures contracts means Bitcoin is just turning into another financial product and getting away from its original vision of a decentralized, limited supply, deflationary currency.

If bitcoin was a billion dollar pump and dump, it would be dead years ago.
bitcoin has gained many users, investors, and holders. so i guess bitcoin is not a lame pump and dump scheme.

Just throw something that community could think objectively.