Bitcoin Forum

Looks like Butterfly Labs collected pre order sales using Pay Pal which is against there TOS according to this website http://bflrefund.me/

Apparently Pay Pal has to honor hundreds of thousands worth of pre order refunds! No wonder why Pay Pal refuses to do business with anything Bitcoin related!

Well, Paypal has dispised Bitcoins for longer than BFL has been in business. It has to do with their "All transactions using Paypal must be tangible" policy. They don't allow Bitcoin transactions because it requires them to know something about Bitcoin in order to do their job in Bitcoin disputes. Although if someone sold Bitcoin for Paypal, they could very easily show it and proof using the blockchain, Paypal would have to learn how to use the Blockchain, so rather than doing that, they just lock your accounts.

^ This + Competition = Loss

Paypal processes over $100 billion per year. A few $100K doesnt even register on their radar.
Moreover, its not costing paypal a dime, that money is coming from BFLs bank account. Not only the original sum, BFL will also pay Paypal's fees and on top of that chargeback fees. Paypal is making a profit on these reversed transaction just like they would when they werent reversed, so see if they care.

No, PayPal doesn't like Bitcoin because it has the potential to make them obsolete.

As the BFL saga demonstrates, clearly there is a need for a service like paypal. Perhaps it could be done with bitcoin instead of dollars or euro's, but ask BFL customers how they feel about bitcoins irreversible transactions now.

BFL not only is screwing customers, but tarnishing bitcoins themselves when this occurs.  Even if paypal didn't like btc in the first place, them coming out of pocket now definitely is not helping. 

This is true. But Bitcoin can and will have more optional complicated transactions in the future to protect both buyers and sellers.
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Contracts (https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Contracts)

Thing is you would need a trusted third party/arbiter. A company like paypal is ideally suited for that. Bitcoin isnt about to render that obsolete, quite the contrary.
Ive always seen bitcoin and paypal as natural allies. Just think of what paypal could bring to bitcoin; merchant services, wallet services, currency exchange, banking integration, conflict resolution/consumer protection, ..
Bitcoin is an opportunity for paypal and vice versa. sooner or later PP will see that too and either acquire bitpay or bury it real fast.

And a whole load of legal regulations (read troubles) along with it. Some people prefer bitcoin exactly because how cumbersome these 'regulations' might be. There's obviously a trade off here: security vs ease. Any trusted company that will act as middleman for BTC will also have many disadvantages of PP

Sure, but the beauty of bitcoin is that no one forces it on you. Dont need it, then dont use it, but when buying $25K worth of mining hardware from a shady company, I wouldnt mind some cumber :)

Can't argue with that. Will PayPal fight Bitcoin or embrace it? We will see....

Not really they monopolize the internet with there service all they have to do is get into the Bitcoin business and do the same. They already have the client base

If this is true, Paypal will be able to refund only until the balance of the frozen BFL account is positive. It won't last forever, and will not be enough to refund everyone.

Customers neednt worry. BFL has that cash many times over, and even if they didnt, it still wouldnt be their problem. see what happens when you have negative balance with paypal..

You don't get your money back. Paypal balance will be negative, and you will receive the money as soon as Paypal is able to force the guy to pay the negative balance in his account. Which is never usually.

Otherwise, Paypal would go bankrupt within a month.

Common. Lets not pretend BFL not only would have no money (which is ludicrous) but also would have no assets.

Based on public posted preorders I estimated their revenue for their 65nm asics alone to be in the $50M region. Add whatever you feell for their earlier FPGA's and some for monarchs.  They are not broke and a few $100K in chargebacks isnt gong to change a damn thing.