Bitcoin Forum

So, earlier today, Just-Dice.com has passed 2 Million bitcoins wagered in a little over 2 months.  This represents 17.1% of all bitcoins currently in existance.  Amazingly, with this volume, the casino is at a 2250 BTC LOSS! Regardless, is this good or bad milestone for Bitcoins?

The statistic of "17% of all Bitcoins" is incredibly misleading. A huge part of the total wagered amount on JD comes from a single gambler, placing many 100+ BTC bets at 49.5% odds (before the max bet size was lowered today anyway). With a large enough bankroll, you can generate enormous volume with a very small risk of going bankrupt, which is exactly what was going on.

It's also not really a good indication for the velocity of Bitcoins as a currency, since all this volume remains internal.

Don't people constantly move coins in and out of the site? How can you say it all internal?

The amount wagered is all from internal action. From an economical point of view, having the same volume on, say, a merchant is much more meaningful than a the total wagered amount on a dice-site.

Why is the volume through a casino any less economically meaningful than through a merchant?

Such volume makes Just-Dice a great fee mixing service (just don't gamble your coins away)

if you win you can send the coins again.

I would speculate that its more like 0.1% of the coins used over and over making it look like 17% of all bitcoin.

This topic is unfortunately very misleading.  If I bet 10 Bitcoins 100 times at 99% win odds, that would be 1,000 Bitcoins wagered.  The amount of Bitcoins wagered is a fine way to compare casinos, but using it as a stat compared to the rest of the economy is 100% wrong.  17% of Bitcoins wagered through Just-Dice in 20 Months is not accurate.

It was in 2 months.

Using dice sites with bitcoins wagered stats is misleading.

Because eventually, the bitcoins wagered will exceed the maximum amount of bitcoins in existence.

Wagered actually means what was bet, and the coins are reusable. If I bet and win, and I bet again, it's the same coins being bet. If I bet and lose, and I bet again, then maybe that is more accurate.

But people do not lose all the time. They lose depending on the percentage chance to win.

Also, JD is off-chain, meaning all action is internal. You don't see any action on the blockchain unlike SD where everything is in the blockchain. But people don't like that either because it's polluting or bloating or spam.

You only see deposits and withdrawals, and since it uses bitcoind which generates new addresses all the time, we can miss out on much of the transactions.

The only thing we can see for sure are the JD cold storage and online storage and part of the hot wallet.

I am not sure just because the transactions occur off-block chain that it makes them any less significant.  True you do not see all the dust spam like with on-block transactions by entities such as SatoshiDice, but the coins transfer you see in and out are quite large my quantity. 

It seems that online gambling has been a hit for bitcoin, but this may not be a good thing due to bad publicity for policy makers.  I suspect the psuedoanonymity also will work out well for porn sites who will start adopting it with time.  Noone wants that foot-fetish site to show up on the family credit card statement. But I suppose, porn and gsmbling and the vices are always the innovators.  I remember pay-per-view and DVDs got big with porn well before mainstream media.

You don't use a shared credit card for porn. So many offers out there. Get a card for porn, another card for gambling, and the family card for grocery shopping. Keep your stuff separate.

I feel its portraying a negative image on bitcoins as a currency used for drugs (silk road) and gambling (betting sites), this makes people think of Bitcoin more of a 'outsider' type of currency used for things society frowns upon.

Gambling is ten thousand years old. Prostitution is the world's oldest profession. People have been paying for both using whatever currency existed at that time. It starts there. Later on, they buy food with shells or rocks.

If prostitution was the world oldest profession , how did the first whore get paid if everybody else was unemployed?

With shells and stones stupid. 

So STUPID , the first profession was shells and stones gatherer , or manufacturer :) STUPID!

Food.

Maybe the whore wasn't paid. Depends. Back then, I could probably get the service for free. The payment was you would live to see another sunrise.

Prostition is said to be the world's oldest profession. Kings and tyrants and emperors are not professions. Entrepreneurs and merchants do not practice a profession.

And thieves and bandits are strictly speaking not a "profession".

The first prostitute was probably forced into it without pay. The next one decided she would charge for it.

If prostitution is simply defined as providing sex in exchange for an item of value, how is it different from marriage and half of all other relationships out there?

Unique coins wagered is far far smaller than the wagered amount shown. I had a few accounts at one point wagered almost 5,000 bitcoin and I have nowhere near that amount.

I would estimate that 95% of the total wagered is reused coins.

Perhaps 100,000 unique coins have gone through the site, and that is an extremely optimistic estimate.

Atleast 170,000 have gone through the site judging by the transactions through the cold wallet
http://blockchain.info/address/14o7zMMUJkG6De24r3JkJ6USgChq7iWF86

Is that the investment address?

Anyway you can still bodge those numbers on blockchain. I have an address somewhere with over 10,000 bitcoin received. Again I have no where near that amount. If you withdraw to block chain and deposit back to Just-Dice again then it will add total received to that number.

So I am probably quite close considering the total amount must be lower than the amount reported on that address.

EDIT: also look at one of S.Dice addresses http://blockchain.info/address/1dice8EMZmqKvrGE4Qc9bUFf9PX3xaYDp I doubt a million unique bitcoins have run throught that one.

To determine actual unique amount of coins wagered you would have to do full taint analysis on every transaction. And even then that can never be 100% accurate.

It the cold wallet = investment + balances not invested.  There probably another 1000 BTC between the online wallet and hot wallet

EDIT 2: however mechs, this is an interesting discussion about bitcoins current main uses. Which are gambling and drugs at the moment. We do need the legitimate uses to eventually out pace the other stuff for people to take bitcoin seriously.

I think it will catch on bigtime with porn websites soon.  Anonymity and fast payments ideal there.  And it good consumer protections since noone wants a sketchy porn site to have their cc info.

The thing is, look at those outputs, all those coins that have left that address probably have came back again thus inflating the amount of unique coins.

We can safely assume that between 100,000 and 200,000 unique coins have been wagered/involved with Just-Dice thus around 1% of all Bitcoins in existence.

Also in a few months the amount wagered will be more than 12,000,000 bitcoins. :)

That's OT, but this is your thread. hehehe. Marriage and relationships are different. Prostitutes do not have a long term relationship with their clients, even if you are a regular customer.

Except for high end escorts, I don't know of any prostitutes that give credit or terms of payment that extend beyond the encounter.

As for "legit" uses, I'm accepting donations to feed children. uh,, not trying to hijack the thread okay, just giving an example.