Bitcoin Forum

Hi Guys,


This is to share my thoughts on this matter.
1. Merit is to promote quality post.
    a. I agree. Post is reviewed for it to be counted as an Activity? why add an additional Merit?
          a1. Unfair to the newbie that came to this forum for knowledge and possible earn. Those guys who have been earlier were not required to have this to ranked up.
 2. How will you that merits are given only to those with quality post?
     a. How will you know that merit are given only to those that deserve it. What if they give it for some other purpose like selling them, or they give it to people they know who doesn't deserve it.
3. How will you compel to who have merit to give to give it out?

Sorry I just feel that the merit system is unjust. Bitcoin is the foundation of our forum. Being decentralized is one of the best features of bitcoin. Adding Merit feels like we are centralizing power to those who are on top!!..
 :-[ :-[
         

I think you misunderstand. Theymos introduced merit as a means to stop spam and shitposts that were commonplace here because people wanted to rank up to get into signature campaigns. He didn't introduce it so that"we are centralizing power to those on top" Yes, i agree, it is harder for people to rank up and some quality posts are not merited, but don't you think that the incentive for people to post quality content is worth more than having to work a little harder to rank up?

It's unfair only if you have a sense of entitlement that you should have the right to spam this forum to pieces for a quick buck. The merit system doesn't keep you from learning and sharing; on the contrary, it encourages quality posts and makes them easier to find.

I think the major unfairness of merit is that newbies cannot give it... Basically it's useless to help newbies with quality posts, unless some high rank member notices you and give you a reward for having helped a newb (i think this is pretty uncommon).
I agree with giving merit to who make quality posts, but i think the "assignment" system should be improved.

Of course they can. They just have to earn it first.

I hope you're not suggesting that every new account should be given a complimentary supply of spendable merit :D

So we can consider that merit is the barrier for person to become easily rank up? Because it looks like without merit no one can be rank up aside from being a Jr member.

You haven't read enough, this has been repeated countless times, the merit system is introduced to reduce spam and account farming.
   

If they really did come here for knowledge, they shouldn't care about ranks at all since all they need is to read and to post which is available in all ranks.


That's exactly the reason, it's because they've been here "first". Reality Check: In most cases it's always been the first ones who gets the most. Did you also whine when the early adopters get the most out of bitcoin?


If you find any user that is abusing the system you can report it in Meta board.


What are you trying to say? I didn't understand a thing

i think it is just fair that merit system was introduced. why? because the other members of this forum are just focusing with the quantity of post they can produce rather than the quality of the knowledge they are sharing with other members. spamming becomes common because of mebers are focusing only on the quantity of post they can produce for them to rank up. i think, the main goal of this forum is to learn first before you earn.

I don't find it unfair. You making this thread made me feel that you're only here in this forum just trying to earn btc with no intentions of helping impart knowledge to new people coming in.
If you badly needed merit for you to rank up you need to work on your posts and prove that your worthy to receive one.

I can understand your concern but I think that since merit feature is a new feature, it will take time to inculcate the habit of using it in a natural way. It is difficult to avoid anyone from selling merits but we have some smart members here who keep track of these things and report/red trust such profiles so we don't have to worry about it. It's not unfair, it's new and it's unstable.

That is why merit was given to challenge newbies to post quality. Even it was not merited it is okey, just continue to write helpful post.


Unjust if we does not apply the rules but look around in meta section you can find that it is applied not just for newbies or jr but for all.

FYI, Decentralized doesn't have relation to merit.

If people were really interested in improving their post quality, then the first thing they would do is to read the stickies that are on every board. Then they would read the threads, and stop repeating the same endless low quality posts.

I'm extremely disappointed that the myriad of posters with minimal command of english have stayed away from the english improvement threads. If they really wanted to "earn" merits, then they would be prepared to work to gain them. Instead of that, they seem to hang around in the high traffic threads displaying their dog-eared posts, and hoping that a merit will fall out of somebody's wallet.

How many of these posters have actually looked up the meaning of the word "merit", and if so, do they understand it?

The word unjust is not appropriate. The merit system is made to make this forum a better place. Let's just be patient, sooner or later we'll get there if we give more effort. I'm having hard time getting merits myself because of my shitty posts. Someone even called me a merit whore for just trying to answer questions and I answered it all wrong. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3041155.msg31913972#msg31913972

We just have to be patient and do our best . There's always room for improvement. We newbies should take this as constructive criticisms for this will bring the best in ourselves. Learning is a process. Be patient and never give up!;D

Always look at the brighter side not just after the merits and rank ups! Have fun.

Here are some jokes to make you guys smile:

When Chuck Norris masturbates, a random virgin gets pregnant on a random country. Doesn't matter if the person is male or female.
The day Chuck Norris was born Alexander The Great changed his name to Alexander The Average
Bullets dodge Chuck Norris.
Donald Trump voted for Chuck Norris.
Nudes send Chuck Norris.
Chuck Norris can actually pause an online game.
Chuck Norris completed Pokemon go... On a house phone
Chuck Norris' email is gmail@chucknorris.com
Chuck Norris can answer a missed call.

First, merit is only to rank up and only useful in economic terms for campaigns. If you are not in for money is just a badge that is better if is difficult to get.

Now, if you are here to make profit, know that this forum´s reputation was built by many people that were here before you (and before me indeed) that built something from nothing, including "Satoshi", who was active for years if I am not wrong. So, no it is not unfair that they have a privilege over the people that arrived later. You can´t pretend to build an user rank just by posting crap and have the same status because THAT would definitely not be fair.

What they are asking from you is to contribute to further enhance the reputation of the forum by creating the type of content that made it what it is today. They are giving you that opportunity, so grab it.

In case you still don´t understand, go to any of the google early investors or even the founders and ask them why are you not a millionaire and that you feel frustrated about it. Check out what opportunity will these people give you.

Life is unfair OP. People who joined the forum early on had a chance to get many free coins that if held would be a small fortune today. You could get a VIP and donator status for a few dollars... At some point all rules were established and it always hurt a group of people just like it seems to be hurting you now.
You can't always be on equal footing!


Thanks, I did!

I just came back today from I just can't remember why suddenly I forgot to visit bitcointalk, and merit is the first thing that caught my attention.

My opinion is I think its fair. Some just didn't see or appreciate it at first, but its a good thing, that you post or comment not just for activity but to add sense with it.
Merit is something you gain when someones agree with you, or grant because you doing a great thing in the forum.
And I think its a great way of appreciating other.

Hope they didn't add demerit button, that was UNFAIR. ;D

Wrong! It seems that your main purpose to be here is to get 'possible earn'. I guess that what you really implied in your thread (not for getting knowledge, or at least it is not your main purpose to be here). Theymos launched merit system to control spamming endemic in the forum, which occured recently, I guess since the last year (2017) when whole crypto-market and crypto-ecosystem considerably blossomed, which in turn resulted in lots of newcomers/ spammers joined the forum and made it like a landfill with tons of their shitty posts.

I guess eagerly-to-learn newcomers will feel very comfortable with merit system because they will get what they deserved and feel satisfied when seeing spammers, shit-posters stucked at Junior Member rank forever!

Not all of merited posts really deserved to those merit points they got, but the most important thing is merit-beggar, merit-cheater, merit-exchangers will be tagged and / or reported soon, then they will be banned. You should not worry about that, just simply focus to improve your threads' quality.

I don't really understand and get your point. No one has right to request you to send your sMerits to anyone. I would like to emphasize sMerits (sendable merits), not Merits. You can not send your Merits away, but you can do with your sMerits.

Good luck, my friend.

I'm glad atleast I made someone smile. You can check the link for more Chuck Norris Facts. http://www.icndb.com/the-jokes-2/

Someone said merit system is unfair
Someone said merit system in un-helpful
Someone said merit system is centralized
Someone said they can not get merits for their bad posts
Someone said they actually earn merits for their constructive posts
Someone said they can cheat the forum's admin, moderators to exchange merits
Someone said they can not rank up higher than their current position due to merit system
And so on ...

The fact is merit system is really useful, powerful in controlling spammers to rank up; but it is very meaningful, motivated system for ready-to-learn, constructive users.

Please accept the fact, stop complaining, and never starting such a spam topic, my friend.

"...we are centralizing power to those on top..." agree with this. but i think merit system created to minimalized fraud/cheat/spam. however as long i can learn from this forum, it's big rewards for me, bigger than "rank" and "merit".  ;)

Knowledge is free. Everyone who wanted a knowledge doesn't mean he/she needs to rank up.

yeah.. indeed knowledge not equal to some rank.. as long you can learn, rank is just side effect

But if can not only learn, but TEACH your rank will increase accordingly. I mean that to be able to share your knowleges with the community you first need to get these knowledges.

Such as i understand correctly, you will be able to recieve a s-merit, if you write the usefull post, which worthy this award. For instance, you have recieved 1 merit and 0.5 s-merit, which you can to send to anouther person.
As for me, this is a good idea to improve the content of the forum and to incentive members of BTT to write realy good posts.

Hi Viellefox, there's no need to apologize to us! Your opinions are yours, they can't be wrong.

What's your interest/need to rank up? I think the answer to this question well tell of us a lot.

And the easiest way to deal with this is, if you feel the merit system is unjust then you shouldn't participate on this forum. There are others, they don't have a merit system, it sounds like going to another forum will help you turn that frown upside down.

That's a very diplomatic reply. I think I can learn from that, and it sounds much better than a simple " F*** off ". The constant complaints about the merit system are starting to build an intolerance in some of us, and I'm not sure that it is healthy.

There's still so much post chasing going on in so many threads, you can barely have a proper discussion cause a horde of two-day old accounts are spamming nonsense everywhere. I'm perfectly fine with the system, hopefully it makes account-farming a little harder.

How do I give merit to someone that I think it did a good job here?

you will see the "merit"  word on the upper right side of every post ,click it and decide how many merit you will give on that person if you know that it did a good job in here.

Merit is good. We must improved the way how we post so that we can earn some merit. There are so many poster here in this forum that i can't even understand what they are saying. Me too i can't speak english very well. But because of this merit system i am trying to make all my post more understandable and have substance.

I know this is a little bit hard for us because of the timing of implementation in which it did not favor us beginners but i understand that for me they did just to control the growing family of the forum in which most of the beginners are now spamming the thread. I just wish that the minimum merit to be given to the beginners who made quality post is 5 to even the situation so that we could rank up easily.

yes we doing good helpfully post but guys not given any merits to me its very sad

Merit system is unfair because some high rank member of this forum. Make other account then they give merits to their other account. And here in our place there are member that are selling merits.

You might think that merit system is unfair but try to live with it because no matter what you do, it can't be undone. You are not the only one who think that this merit system is unfair.

If anyone is selling merit, or exchanging merit for goods or favours, then you should report them.

This is out of the initial goal of coming to the forum. I think there is not a connection between seeking knowledge with rank. It's not that hard, there's no rank restriction to read posts. there is no ranking restriction to ask questions that are not understood. So what's complicating you?

life has never been fair if they can gain merit easier than you even if you're more helpful than then it just shows they are better writers,
 if your complaining because of bounties then imagine this if there is no merit system, more accounts will be created. It will be harder for us to compete with more accounts thus this merit system will make it harder for spammers to create more accounts, and much easier for the user to find a helpful post

Oh man, change your way of thinking. Merit is not to be hunted. your current rankings do not limit you to contribute to forums. You will feel trapped forever in your own thoughts and not your rank.

Was it unfair that I gave you a merit for speaking the truth? :)

Just accept it, like when your girlfriend or boyfriend dump you because of your stupidity and nonsense, keep moving and accepting the fact that all things happen for a reason.

Well you know that Theymos adding Merit Feature as a means to stop the spammer and shitposter that really often seen in the forum here, i think they doing it just for Rank Up their Account for joining Bounty, especially Signature Campaign.
But honestly, yes i feel the same as you, it's like almost impossible to Ranking up my account, gaining Merit is not easy as we think.

No, it's not unfair, it doesn't restrict anyone to post high quality posts, if you are not able to do so then you're in the wrong forum.
It's a new system that still has to prove itself, so just give it some time. It will improve by itself the longer it is active and the less people complain.

When I began posting on forum, even I had a same feeling that Merit is unfair to newbies but then as I became more active, I changed my opinion. If there is no merit system then some people would spam the sh*t out of forum to rise up the rank ladder. We surely don't need the spams for petty gains of others. Merit does provide check on such spam so I guess, it is fair for this forum.

it might be difficult to get merit and climb up the ranks but i also think it helps regulate the kind of posts written. the quality of posts are better because of the desire to scale up the ranks, that's a good thing because the posts are not only informative buy also constructive, which helps the forum members grow their knowledge

Merit is one of the best strategy that created on this forum for rank up because many people of this forum are posting non constructive words. Soo the merit can help a lot by pursuing people to posts constructive posts to get merited.

Let's make it easy for most people reading this. The forum was started to discuss Bitcoin matters, not to rank up to be able to participate in signature campaigns. The signature campaigns came much later and this should be seen as a value added, extra feature.

When you contribute constructively to this forum in a natural way, you will get rewarded for your inputs and your effort, but when you are "hunting" actively to get those rewards, you might be disappointed.

Just relax and post naturally and if you get merit for that, you should see it as a added bonus, not a right.  

no it wasn't. they are only preventing scammers to have plenty of accounts just posting trash and be able to earn from it.

Yeah thanks, maybe you also understand what i mean above  :D . Make us feel free from the target rankings so that we can enjoy all the knowledge that is in this forum.
And I also agree with these words for everyone who came to this forum for knowledge,

The merit system is very interesting, but it's not my place to talk about it yet because I'm still a newbie now and it has been over 2 weeks.  A long way to go to have a need for a merit.

I must have merit for next "stage" (Jr Member) ?
I think that is unfair
But now i'm Newbie, i will try :D

I'm new here, and after reading some issues about this merit thing I think it's unfair specially to new blood like me. The objective of putting the merit system is great, but I think they need to put a more balance system on it.
Even if I write something here that is very relevant and worth reading and even if my English is superb, I think I won't really going to get merits from other users because of that. I have seen and read posts and comments that are really good but I don't see that they're getting merits that they deserve.
I just hope they will find a new way or system to identify those who really are worthy to rank-up.

Think of it like a college test. You have to do your course work, and you get marked for it. If your marks are high enough, then you get a pass, and you can move on to the advanced course. Is it unfair if you don't pass because you don't do the work, or you submit low quality papers.

Merit is a little bit like the nirvana, when you will stop searching for and and start focusing on giving to others and to the universe the nirvana will present itself to you.

Unfair for those new ones,because there are less chance of getting rank up in the future,those lucky people who was here are the only beneficiary of the merit system,especiall those account farmers from the past who managed to have multiple accounts,a lot of people are complaining but im sure theymos will adjust the system because not all the people will rank up.

That dialogue is so last week, we've moved on from that in the merit thread bump posting.

TOTALLY UNFAIR.

I spend almost 3 days to write a very good post in English,
I posted it,
got very good comments,
very positive feedback from everybody
and finally got 1 merit!
It is just not working.
 
I am not here to earn anything.
I spent my valuable time to help people.
I am newbie in the forum, not in life.
I got a crypto portfolio and doubt if Hero members have ever dreamed.

Hello Administrators, Moderators. Do you know what "Equal opportunities" means?

Are the rules of the Bitcoin forum above constitution and fundamental rights?

TOTALLY UNFAIR

Improve your post quality, learning more to be more helpful, more knowledgeable; then users will recognize merit is fair system. If not, they will think that the system is unfair one. It's very simple. Please stop complaining about merit system.
Accept its rules, grow up and get merits. That is my advice for someone who think that merit system is unfair.
Merits will never come immediately after your threads published. It will come later, might be hours, might be days, might be weeks. The important thing is you will only have chance to get merit if your post quality is high; and it should be published in appropriate contexts, and it is informative, helpful.

I did not say that system is unfair.
I said, it is totally unfair.
I have the right to complain as much as I want.
I have the right to say my opinion as much as I want.
You don't tell me how to behave, I am old enough.
"Grow up" to your friends, please.
If you want to educate yourself, start from your fundamental rights.
Best Regards

MERIT IS NOT UNFAIR!
I object to what you are trying to say. The moderators just wants us to post better things than ever. We need to post like Nullius so we can earn merits. It's easy as that, the sad thing here is Nullius had no life. We need to forget our life to post like Nullius or get a merit, easy, no sweat.

Yeah, it seems that it's your choice to behave in the forum. Contribution to the forum and forum users is key to get merit scores from others. I have spent minutes to look at your post history, most of them are not high-quality, not useful (sorry, it is just my own assessment, maybe wrong); main part of them written in Russian. I don't think that local boad is a good place to get merits. One of your posts got 10 merits from one user, but honestly I guess it is not deserve to earn 10 merit points.

Anyway, thanks for your discussion. Hope that you can rank up and get merit legally.

I totally agree that agree that Merit is unfair. Because its unable to produce more merit.
You get 0.5 sMerit when someone Merits you, plus he looses 1 Merit. But what will be when there is not enough Merit to grant, and no one can give his sMerits.

One day all Merits/sMerits will be spent and can not be replenish. That means that the forum will be overcrowded with newbies and Jr. Members with 1000+ activity.

Wrong! Only bad-quality posters complain that merit system is unfair. I look at your post history, most of your posts are one-line, Russian language, and maybe spam threads.
Wrong too! Merit senders will lose their sMerits (which are the actual thing they send, not Merit points). Merit receivers will get both merits and sMerits, for one Merit point receive, merit receivers will get additional 0.5 sMerits.
Please read this one carefully to get what you have missed.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2818350.0

First of all, It is not Russian. But lets say it was Russian, does this make my post low-quality?
It sounds a little bit racist to me.

It is my mother language which is the oldest on the planet, and you seem to ignore it.
If you don't recognize my language , how do you know is low-quality and spam?
Your opinion is irelevant and that shows the level of your education which unfortunately is non existent.

No, you don't understand what I meant. Higher rank members rarely visit local boards, that is the main reasons why threads in local boards have low probability to earn merit points from them. In addition, your threads in local boards are almost one-line posts, right? I don't understand what you wrote, but most one-line threads are low-quality ones.

like for example my account?
ive been jr member for so long now..
any chance of receiving merit from you guys?

I think it is actually fair because you exchanged merits with another guy for shit-post (3-5 word long). All your threads are completely shit-show. Please stop complaining about merit system, which is perfect one to prevent shit-posters to rank up. Don't complain and show your account with evidence about merit begging.

absolute valid discussion. What prevents "merit-holders" from circle jerking and passing merit towards each other?

You are right buddy this is so sad and very hurtful to those still newbie in crypto they are just still in the starting stages and then the admistrator rule this then it is like very disappointed to all of them. But as we can see that it is also good to all of us because from now on we are in mandatory to post a quality post that we cant do it before. This is so avoid spam and bad post

Dear tranthidung
I started  a very good thread in Bitcoin Discussion. I had about 100 views in a few hours.
Check it out if you want.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3119349.0
It is a good post and I spent hours to write it down. I 've had very good comments and positive feedback from Hero members etc.
Moderators moved my thread from General Discussion to  Beginners & Help! for no reason and they don't answer my messages.
A thread about "Growing Bitcoins" is not for beginners obviously.
Now I have zero views. How do I get the merits then?


You will realize very soon that your rank stays the same,
because you don't have enough merits,
because nobody gives you merits, no matter what you post.
Simple true is, they don't want new members to grow.

Can you explain how is merit actually earned? :o

What would be wrong with allocating one or 2 merit points for jr members though? A jr member can be active for 2 months before ranking up if they had one or 2 merit points that could make the balance a little bit better.

A lot of the highest ranking members don’t visit the newbie forums and less experienced users would also appreciate more how hard it is to get merit.

I have read today people with over 1000 merit complaining that no one gives them merit?

I've been on this forum since 2013 and every time there has been some kind of change made to keep one step ahead of spam posters and system gamers there have always been complaints. You might not like it, but you're not going to change it by complaining. I suggest you figure out the rules and abide by them, and use your time here to educate yourself and don't worry so much about earning for the time being. That will come if you stick with it.

Regardless of the particular system used to discourage low quality posts, the basic rule hasn't changed. Only post if you actually have something to say, and only post it once. If you follow that rule, you should be just fine.

We are  members of  this forum and we form communities.
The forum has introduced a ranking system in order to distinguish members.
If you have a ranking system in place you need to have rules that protect equality.
Equality is a human right and applies everywhere.

In reality Bitcointalk shut the door on new members.
This is the definition of "inequality" among old and new members.
Old menbers got 500 or 1000 merits automatically.
They just woke up in the morning and "Voila". Got them.

Bitcointalk members registerd in 2015   get 1000 merits
Bitcointalk members registerd in 2016   get  500 merits
Bitcointalk members registerd in 2017   get  250 merits
Bitcointalk members registerd in 2018   get  0 merits

I don't think everyone is moaning most do agree that its right to implement and if no one gave any input then how could things ever be made any better.

If we took your merit for example you have seen 2 comments in a month that you feel are worth of merit? you have 1000 merit it would take 41 years before you would even have to think think about merit.

Yes,you're right
I'll try to get to a higher ranking,my posts must be quality and very useful
So,i thnik that i can get transience

hello, i do believe there is no a total fairness in this world, like you said, there is a chance for people to buy and sell the merit or maybe the earlier member was not need to pass the merit system. but i think the whole thing is a part of growing community. as far as i knew, the merit system was introduce to reduce the spamming post, the laziness of few member to read the sticky thread and to keep all the member follow the big picture of the forum itself. do you think that is easy to learn about the community if most of the post full of spam post?

maybe this example can help you figure it out:
you create a post about how to create a wallet so you can get token from ICO project you participated. and 90% of the reply you got is "thank you for the post i also want to know" or "this is a good post" or maybe "please sent me a PM if you already know it" and the worst is people post a link out of nowhere (it maybe link to a scam or viruses)

as a community, i think that is important to keep the member to stay on the right track, i believe the first time this forum appear is to facilitating the need of crypto world knowledge. but like the other growing community, the bigger the forum is, the more complicated the challenge will come.

many people came here because they heard this community can help people to gain some cash. merit system is one of the way to remind the member what is the spirit of this forum.

i think if we (all the junior member and lower rank) can pass the the requirement to rank up, it will train us to do a quality post. which means when we implement our good habit of making quality post on the bounty campaign, in the end it will give us a good reward. dont you think the merit system is good for our own sake?

please believe if something new introduce in the community it is also for the best of our own sake.

like the higher rank teach us in this community, lets learn together here and the money will follow you

keep learning and stay easy

Merit might seem unfair to you, but according to the rules of this forum, making quality posts will surely make merits fair to you. We might not benefit from what the earlier members had, but with time and sticking to the rules, we can surely get there.

At least in here, if anything it looks scammier now than before.

It's a great idea and it could work, but they need to fine-tune their implementation.

Merit is just creating centralisation IMHO.    A user with high merit, or a lot of BTC, or a certain amount of control  (a coin dev such as myself) can have merit added to their username or usernames of their choosing basically whenever they want.

And that is essentially what's happening.   Although I'm not doing it myself (I'm going to give this an honest try), I can see it clearly on the boards and in the chat rooms.  Merit can be bought and sold.  And thus it is.


I think Merit has a place, but not as a screener.     For now, I would suggest that mods look at upgrading SMF.  I am sure they have good reasons for not doing it, but those need to be weighed against the clear screening and security advantages.

With regards to how much "merit" a user really has, I'm working on a blockchain solution to that.    Looking forward to it.

I'm not sure how to properly comment on this.  It appears that most of the unfair comments came from Newbies and Jr. Member whereas the higher rank members think otherwise.  

As old as time.

Haves and have nots.


Merit has its place, but may take some time to figure out where that is.   Right now it is creating a sub-economy, which was not the intent.

Its not unfair but bit difficult. You have to work hard to make a quality content moreover, if you think that you made a quality post and you want admin to view for the merit you can send your post to the admin directly.