Bitcoin Forum

The change in price does not make bitcoin a reasonable currency.
Bitcoin can not become a currency for two main reasons: its value is unstable and trading time is too slow.

money and currency are 2 different things

think of currency as a umbrella term for anything people want to trade.
married couple, exchange sexual favours for gifts at valentine/birthdays is a currency.. yes sex is a currency
prisoners, exchange cigarettes or chocolate pudding between inmates.. yep cigarettes and desserts are currency
friends, exchange a bottle of beer for having a friend help them with fixing their car or doing a bit of DIY. yep favours and alcohol are currency

anything can be a currency. and yes bitcoin is a currency.

now that part is sorted.
..

"money" is a sub category of currency with specific limitations, definitions and utility.
for instance its just a widely known and accepted medium of exchange usually accepted nationally by that nation wrote on the banknote.
(yes some retailers dont do cash transactions and only want credit cards so even bank notes are not 100% accepted everywhere)
(yes some retailers dont do credit cards and only want cash transactions so even credit cards are not 100% accepted everywhere)

an asset is another sub category of currency. with its own definitions and utility, this is more of a value store with only the occassional use as a medium of exchange
antique furniture/art
gold coins/jewellery
company shares
bitcoin

bitcoin is essentially an asset currency

It is true because to form a currency bitcoin needs to go under regulatory changes and have some sort of stable value in regards with the products and services that are offered through out the nation. For example, dollar bill is always dollar bill no matter what happens to the gold or oil rig in the New Jersey! The value can correlate a lot about the currency and the demand so it should be stable in that terms also. Whenever there is more demand government starts pushing the prices for the products and services so that treasury can be filled with huge bucks while keeping the prices of one dollar bill same as the previous one dollar bill.

Now considering the bitcoin, it doesn't fit in this scenario properly because it is decentralised and can not be stabilised without any hard cap. The value of the coin itself grows up and down once there is bad or good news in the market about it. It behaves more or less like an asset than the currency.

Bitcoin is considered as virtual currency and a speculative asset since it's value changes from time to time depending on the market. It is not similar to money. Money has physical form and is used as medium of exchange. Compared to bitcoin, money's value is fixed or is stable over time.

Concerning BTC volatility - every criptocurrency has the same volatility. So following your logic we can't use any criptocurrency for payment purpose. Yes, criptocurrency market is very volatile but it is new market and its stability will be the next step of this market development

Yes, I think bitcoin is more the asset, like a gold or oil, then money though you can still pay with it for something
and the main problem of course, high price's fluctuation.

Bitcoin is a virtual and speculative asset as it's value changes often which is caused by several factors. Being inconsistent or volatile is one of it's main characteristics that's why it is also called bubble investment. It's not considered as money because money is tangible and has a specific value over time.

That depends on how do you define a currency...if it is a medium of exchange then Bitcoin is one but if you mean that Bitcoin should be behaving just like any other fiat currency (dollar, yuan, pound, et al) then maybe Bitcoin is not...yet! The big reason for the volatility is that people are speculating on Bitcoin but if the same kind of treatment will be given to any fiat money the same volatility will be exhibited.

when I first got to know bitcoin, I also thought bitcoin was an asset, not money. I think bitcoin is like digital gold, a holding this asset and get a profit in the future when the price goes up.

indeed bitcoin cannot be compared with fiat money because fiat money has a value that is stable and has a real shape. while bitcoin depends on the market price. so that bitcoin is able to exceed fiat money price and sometimes price goes down.

It's true that bitcoin is a speculative asset where there is no fixed value, frequent movement of price can be expected. However I don't believe it's ending soon. It can still stand for a long time, and can be consider for long term investment that in anytime can be converted into money.

Bitcoin is not money in the classical sense. From the classical properties of money - absolute liquidity, the ability to measure the value of goods and the preservation of value - it is stretched to a stretch corresponds only to the first. At present, it is a good tool for speculative investments, but it is not a tool for reliable calculations, savings or the equivalent of value.

Bitcoin could become a world currency, but only if it manages to overcome the fierce resistance of central banks and governments, which it threatens with the loss of levers of influence on the economy.
Crypto currency is a new kind of assets that are represented only as records in a distributed database (locker) with the guarantee of unchangeability (protection against forgery of records), transparent to all users and partially anonymous.

If the legislatures of Arizona and Georgia allow people to pay tax in crypto, then cryptocurrency becomes money.

Anything a govt will accept in lieu of taxes is money. At the moment it's just fiat (they won't let you pay in gold, which makes gold an asset). So if crypto makes the tax breakthrough, it will be huge.

There is no doubt that Bitcoin and other cryptocurrency are highly volatile which means the value can easily drop or increased by 5% in short period of time, so it will be hard to use as a currency that we can use to purchase something. Bitcoin was designed to be a currency to be use as payment method but people see it more as an asset or a store of value than can give them huge profit but it doesn't mean that Bitcoin can't be use as what it was intended to do. There are shops or businesses that are already accepting Bitcoin to pay their services or products.

BTC is not money, it is just a part of transport channels in the container, if you believe that it can put anything in, of course, you will find something across the channel to receive, if can't find, here can't take out anything that might rot and worthless, it is this risk.

The volatility is good for day traders.  There must be quite a lot of profit to be made there with all this price up and down not even every day but sometimes in a few minutes.  But as an asset for a lot of people it's too unstable I think.  Say I am saving for a deposit for a house and have two Bitcoins worth.  So at this very minute I have 20K but next week I might only have 16k.  But I might have 24K.  It's no good really at the present time with all this movement in price.  OK if constantly going up.  But not OK if dropping. 

Wait so you're telling me all the major currencies remain stable? Is that what you're telling me? Look at other currencies they keep on fluctuating a hell lot. Bitcoins does fluctuate a lot but it gives you the best returns that no other asset class will give you. For me it's the best currency out there. You should really see it with a open mind.

You are true to some extent. But for items in the range of $1000 or above can still be transacted with bitcoins. The seller is also in advantage when prices increase in future.

So if the U.S. Dollar became too volatile or unstable it will not be considered as money by their own people? Will it also be called as an speculative asset just like what you said? Its volatility does not affect its functions as a currency, the sad thing about it is Bitcoin being decentralized a lot of people are taking advantage to take profit from it and is overshadowing its use as a currency. But now all things are looking good for Bitcoin lately I can have high and reliable transaction speeds with just 14,000 Satoshis of network fees which is really cheap. Now it is more appealing to use Bitcoin as a currency hopefully this will be a start to businesses to accept Bitcoin again.

Our currency is also unstable just like bitcoin, the only difference is, it doesn't undergo the same rise and fall as Bitcoin does. If money is an asset, bitcoin is an asset, then why not consider bitcoin as money? Simple logic. Everything that has a value money in their different way.

I agree, bitcoin is not money, we cannot hold bitcoin physically like any other money. Bitcoin is just useful online and if we don't have an internet, bitcoin will be useless at all. Bitcoin is just an asset for me.
      

Fiat currencies are also prone to volatility but central banks try to execute measures of control to price of their currencies by issuing treasury notes or  buying the excess currencies in the forex market. The Zimbabwean dollar is a scary example of high volatility in fiat currency. Bitcoin on the hand is a fairly new creation and as such has no central authority to cushion the sharp rise or drop in price.
Bitcoin is still in its infancy stage so give it time.

Bitcoin is not speculative but quite the opposite of real digital currency tested and proven.

How are you going to deliver it? To explain bitcoin to people who are really blind about cryptocurrency do have to be extra patient, because they do not know the basic ground, so they refuse to know.

Money should not appreciate in value. The purpose of money is to be spent, to circulate, not to be "hodled". Why would you use as a medium of exchange something that appreciates up to 1000% a year?
"Hodling" is the exact opposite of money.
Another issue with bitcoin is it is not a unit of account, people when transact in bitcoin they refer to $ and other fiat currencies, they don't have a clue what 1btc is unless it's not converted and expressed in fiat. There's not a country in a world that prices goods and services in btc. There's no reference point, it's not a legal tender anywhere either. Only way btc's value can be known is when it's paired to $.

Even when bitcoin's price is $ 0.1 is still considered as money. However, it's not ready for payment method as we can see the fees are too high and it takes a long time for a transaction to get confirmed unless you pay a higher fee.

I might say that it's a speculative asset, but we can't deny that it's also money or currency. The point is when people still use it for transaction or purchase anything it'll be mentioned as money, you know what the reason why my government couldn't ban bitcoin where transaction using other than our official currency is against the rules? Yes, because of the speculative asset, everyone has their own right to holding something precious like bitcoin.

Lol nice way to put it!

Well, I agree that Bitcoin is mainly famous as a speculative instrument as of now but the core concept of Bitcoin states that it is a payment system. However, there are some issues like price volatility and transaction cost/time in making ground level use of it as a payment system. Since, it is growing day by day in terms of userbase and price, it will take at least a decade to inculcate it as a payment system.

Ongoing debate but for me it doesn't matter how to classify BTC. It brings me real money and I am happy in the same manner as others who think other way.

Yes, these are probably the reason why people have alot of speculations against bitcoin and other crypto currency. We don’t exactly know what is the real purpose why these cryptos have been discovered. But currently this serves as one of the assets that one may have since it has a value that fluctuates over time.

Its susceptibility to manipulation makes it unstable.But it is money since it can be used to exchange goods and services. All currencies are volatile, those in forex will tell you so. Also the resistance from the big corporations make it even harder for btc to become stable. But let's face it, btc is only 9 years old. This is just the beginning. I'm calling all this instability teething pains.

It can be called money because it has value , Bitcoin is just like gold. The value of it is because of the trust that people puts in it.

Improvements are being done and we will see change in both. The fees has already got reduced as per the responses made by members here. I am still hopeful about bitcoins being used as a payment medium.

Bitcoin is not money per se but it  can be exchange into a fiat currency or a money that's why we called it as virtual currency. And how did you define currency?


Dictionary

currency
cur·ren·cy
ˈkərənsē/Submit
noun
1.
a system of money in general use in a particular country.
"the dollar was a strong currency"
synonyms:   money, legal tender, cash, banknotes, bills, notes, coins, coinage, specie
"foreign currency"
2.
the fact or quality of being generally accepted or in use.
"the term gained currency during the second half of the 20th century"
synonyms:   prevalence, circulation, exposure

So, it is not a physical money but it is also money in virtual form. It's value might be unstable but still, it's money.

if I think the bitcoin as an investment container. if to make currency like I can not. if as Asset value may be really. let's just say that for now bitcoin becomes an investment value that one time can be taken and made into the country's currency

Which makes it uncertain how some of the government regulators should move forward in regulating Bitcoin and altcoins. Regulating it as a commodity might make void the law on "operating as an illegal money transmitter" which has imprisoned some Localbitcoin traders in America.

Regulating it like a paper currency within the definition of the law makes it not so because Bitcoin is not legal tender, leaving some judges confused.

Satoshi has brought so many legal headaches. Hahaha.

that's right, but I have other thoughts about bitcoin and currency relationships, is it true that the purpose of creating bitcoin is to become currency ?, I think it is 50:50, but if we look at the real facts of bitcoin, whether it's about price, existence, or other things, it seems my thinking is more likely to "bitcoin is an asset, just like gold and other valuable things"

Bitcoin is a virtual and speculative asset as it's value changes often which is caused by several factors. Being inconsistent or volatile is one of it's main characteristics that's why it is also called bubble investment. It's not considered as money because money is tangible and has a specific value over time.

a commodity is a raw material used to create other produce..

this is where people get confused.. because of the 'gold comparison'

gold sits in more than 1 currency sub-category
commodity:- the market for buying and selling gold to use in industry for jewellery and electronics creation
asset:- gold investments (holding in a vault)

just because gold asset has been compared to bitcoin. does not mean bitcoin has the same attributes/utility/function/tangibility as gold commodity.

bitcoin is nothing like wheat, beef, oil, cocoa, potato (commodity)
bitcoin is an ASSET not a commodity

anything can be a currency (its an umbrella term)
legal tender/fiat/money are the same sub category as each other

asset is a different category from money
commodity is a different category from money

currencies can be used even in places where its not accepted as 'money'
EG
in america retailers and tax agents do not consider the euro as acceptable 'money'/legal tender. they only want to and are legally obliged to accept the dollar as money..

yet to hundreds of millions of people across the ocean away from america, europeans accept the euro as money. but not the dollar.

that said..
the local bitcoin traders getting fined/imprisoned for running a illegal money business has nothing to do with bitcoin. but to do with the other 50% of a trade.. the fiat they handle.

yes when they buy/sell bitcoin they swap it for fiat. and its the handling of fiat that gets them in trouble.
EG
if they swapped bitcoin for a tin of baked beans they would not be a money business, but instead a retailer

You are right that the value is unstable but it is always increasing if you compare in large time periods like 6  months. If a seller can afford to wait for such periods to clear the payments, he will be in profit by accepting bitcoins.

Please let not also forget that fees can reach as high as $50 per transaction and I would giver you a merit but I don't have any
because unless you are reading from the bitcoin koran around here then nothing you say will receive any points.

Have you read about the $5bn scam that's just making the news today ?
https://www.rt.com/business/419901-satoshi-sued-cryptocurrency-theft/

Us none believers have fee merits to give away because when we do collect a few we end up being banned
because the game is loaded, magnets under the table my friends.

Dot-Con bubble was like that as was tulips but one day the party stopped but my reason for getting out was
not about the crashing price but because I looked at the Lightning Network and came to the conclusion that
the hubs are just small banks so if/when things get much worse then remember to send my love to the bankers.

Well that further states that btc currently can't be a certified currency but more of an asset. Whether it goes up to be profitable or drops, it only shows how volatile it is and that kind of instability can't be applied to be used as a currency. Perhaps in time, when btc has exhausted its up and down movements, it will become a bit more stable and then it can be seen as a currency

Not all at once, give it time to stronger and introduce new technologies. The cost is not stable because it is not controlled by anyone and now the price of bitcoin is very much depends on the news, but the time will come and everything is different, everyone wants to own bitcoin.

Bitcoin can be considered as speculative asset due to its fluctuating value that changes from time to time. No one knows exactly on how high or low it fall. Only the supply and demand can affect the price of it. But I don't consider it as money  it is a value that can be exchanged into money.

Each person uses Bitcoin as it better fits their needs. There are people using it like a currency, doesn't matter the volatility and transactions costs. Others use it as investment only. I think these statements about Bitcoin can't be this or that is a bit contradictory, because the main concern of many governments about Bitcoin is the "anonymous currency" question, being used by criminals...

So even those who don't like Bitcoin say it's a currency.

You probably read a lot of news in the newspapers and love watching TV?) And there is no speculation in the stock exchanges, there is no sport in sports?) This is a young prospective asset, it is the currency of the future.

At the current moment, sadly it is a speculative asset and couldn't be considered a currency because ig it's unstable value brought aboutby bitcoin's high volatility rate. However, we do hope that time will come when a solution would be made in order for the unstable value of bitcoin to be banished. I am hopeful with that.

Because of the high volatility Bitcoin is better used as an investment asset. This high volatility makes it perfect for trading. Using it as a payment system, like money, is not perfect yet, but will be soon when lightning network is up and working.

Well, if you think of bitcoin to be a national currency or local currency like dollar euro which is got a physical substance then you r right. But you are wrong in sense by evaluating btc as the form of paper currency. Its an financial asset which got the quality of higher rate of liquidation.
And please make your self understand that its a virtual currency not the local or national or wont be ever.
BTC IS A CURRENCY BUT ITS VIRTUAL AND YES EVERY CURRENCY IS A FINANCIAL ASSETS BUT EVERY FINANCIAL ASSETS ARENT THE CURRENCY.

Until now bitcoin is only used as a Cryptocurrency asset for the future that can be exchanged and traded with currency. What everyone hopes is bitcoin can be used as a tool for transactions in all countries.

Yeah its no really a money don't take it literally when you read a currency that does mean a real money but a speculative thing. The higher the demand the higher the price will be and if the demand goes down the price will do so. It's  more on speculative asset than a currency, we not use it as currency literally but a means of payment and exchange.

Do read this:
https://pastebin.com/ZUxTmR99

Bitcoin certainly lacks certain features to be able to be called money between them, the variability of its price, limits its ability to serve as a store of value although its upward trend has made it a very profitable investment, limiting the increased use of bitcoin thanks to the public ignorance of its operation, as well as its liquidity limitations. In short, bitcoin faces a long way to become fully global money. However, its innovative technology allows to foresee possible advances in its acceptance, as well as new applications.

I think the measure of a thing is not money, the deciding factor is whether it can be used as a medium of dealing somewhere, and adopted the consent of the majority. Bitcoin can be used as a medium of exchange, but not sure if most people agree. Now Bitcoin is now only an investment currency. It has its own space for appreciation and it is also a Technology, a market-promising technology, so I tend to be more of an asset currency.

Often times,  I confuse money with currency but with your explanation, I realized that they are two major things.

Since people trade bitcoin,  then definitely it is a currency but bitcoin can be a money because it is not decentralized and is not restricted to use within a company.

However,  bitcoin is an asset currency in that it has value which increases over time and can be used occasionally as a medium of exchange.

So Yes,  bitcoin is an asset currency and not a money currency.

If for bitcoin you can buy the product you are interested in, then bicoin is money. If you have a bitcoin and at any time you can sell it, then this is an asset. But at the moment, this is an extremely unstable asset due to the fact that its speculators do it constantly buying and selling on the stock exchange, but the same happens with other assets, such as oil, metals, grain, etc. But I'm sure that the constant distribution and popularization of bitcoin will soon make it a full-fledged money and its volatility will decrease due to an increase in capitalization to about $3 trillion.