Bitcoin Forum

Is it wrong to end your life even though it will hurt those who somehow happen to value you?

Not at all. You're not responsible for other people's feelings, despite what they might tell you.

Seems you're asking if it's wrong to be 'selfish'.

Atlas, You know as well as I do that your life is yours...

But there are better ways to deal with your problems than quitting.

Haters gonna hate. Fuck 'em.

It's not the haters. I just don't feel like playing anymore. I haven't felt like playing more and more often. It's getting hard. I think I can keep going. I can presume I will feel like living soon. I hope.

Yes, and this is actually a good motivation to get through particularly tough periods in life. It's still your life at the end of the day, but if you care for those people you won't want to cause them suffering. Beyond that, it would be unfortunate to end any potential in the spark of life one has been given (or taken, if you prefer).

You know, it's certainly not wrong to seek help for these sorts of things. That's what they're there for. You've got a pretty good head on your shoulders. It would be a shame to waste it. If you need a number to talk to someone who can help you, PM me.

We don't agree on anything, but I would never want another human being to end their own life just because we disagree on the Internet.

Atlas you need to do some prison time you'll understand what I mean if you ever do.

I know from your previous posts that you've felt like this before and come through the other side.  There's no shame in reaching out to the health professionals you've mentioned before and letting them know that you're struggling right now.

Highly do not recommend health professionals. Get out hang with some friends, ride a bike, do something and when you do it only think about what you're doing. A wandering mind is dangerous.

Yea go see a health professional. I don't get why there is such a stigma around shrinks. Historically people would see priests about their issues. The community held priests in high esteem for such things. So why aren't shrinks held in the same regard ?  


Anyways if your not going to talk to someone about it you should consider exercising, sex, and even swimming in a near freezing lake. A Russian study found that people who would swim in a near - freezing lake had close to no mental health issues. Although you could argue that you need a mental health issue to swim in a cold lake! Scientists think that the stress caused by the cold water upon the nervous system has some sought of inoculating effect.

 :D I guess I agree with more than one of your posts.

Ohh and ideally you should be sleeping properly. This means sleeping when it is dark. Research shows that if your circadian rhythm is not synchronized properly then you have a significantly higher chance of many illnesses, not just mental.


Trivia: Scientists observe that cultures that have no artificial lighting have the following sleeping pattern: Wakeup just before sun-rise. Nap in afternoon. Sleep soon after sunset. Wake up for an hour in the middle of the night. Sleep.

Studies have been done in Mongolia and somewhere else. Based on this scientists assert that ideally we should be having a nap in the arvo and waking up for an hour in the middle of the night.

Atlas you dont know me and I will never even meet you. I'm on the other side of the planet.
Just wanted to say you have had an impact on me and I wish I had the words to express my gratitude.

Whatever your choice and it is your choice I thank you.

PS.

The world that you wish was a better place will be lessened if you leave it.

1ESG4qM68ZU2X3QD5R3ywv1LSRVRWQaVdT

May I have your bitcoins?

I disagree with almost everything you say, but I enjoy your show and the online debates. You are the age of my children and have much to learn, but you have a lot of potential.

I'm 22, I had the same hardcore philosopher vibe going at 18 so my advice might be useful. The trick for me was appreciating the small things. Such as when you eat food, to think about how much effort goes into ingredients, how lucky we are compared to people in the past, things like that. Same with taking walks, sun and trees, those simple things which despite their complexity are too easy for intellectuals to dismiss. I believe the trick is to not dismiss them.

Of course it might of just been natural changes in brain chemistry. So I haven't had the chance to test it to confirm, which would involve being really cynical about everything for a few months and seeing if it makes life depressing. But from observing other people I think I'm probably right.

Wrong as in you should be stopped from doing it?  No.

Wrong as in you're a selfish, spineless worm?  Yes.

Same thing really. Walk, sun and trees cause certain types of changes in brain chemistry. Immersion in virtual worlds in front of a glowing screen causes other types of changes in brain chemistry.

The first type tends to lessen the feeling that one is burdened by paranoia and depression. The second type tends to increase those same feelings.

Off Topic:

digigalt, I have the following to add to another discussion, but the the quote button is missing on that thread:

Winston Churchill was once informed that one should not end a sentence with a preposition. His response was, That is the sort of arrant pedantry up with which I will not put.

The keyword is "pedantry" you used. Hint: Atlas

If you get to the point where you can't take it anymore, just walk out your door, stick out your thumb, and see where you end up.  Some times a hard turn can get you out of a rut.

Yesterday you said:

"The only freedom that is to be respected is a sentient organism's ability to sustain. Life shall sustain without hindrance nor according to the whims of another. Neither misfortune nor ill shall entitle a man to another."

So I guess you admit you're wrong?

Yes it's wrong, get some help.

For the love of Ayn Rand just get fucking medicated already, you clearly need it.


Also, actually take the damn medications. You are clearly either manic depressive or bipolar, so don't stop taking them every time you have an upswing or downswing.

Ignore this Atlas and don't take any medication. Reason I don't recommend professional help is they have folks like JeffK thinking magical pills from advertisement in every media format being prescribed by professional's with pockets laced with corporate cash will some how fix your issue.

Check out the book Illusion's by Richard Bach

You are a valuable member of this community, and I hope you realize that so you start feeling proud of what you're doing.

It's 10X better to try to create something, as you have been doing, and make a couple small mistakes, then not try at all. The mistakes you've made have been really negligible, and you've gotten way too much flak for it.

For example you put the bitcoin subreddit for sale, and you immediately took the sale down once you got complaints about it, yet people are acting as if you did some horrible thing that reflects badly on you. It's ridiculous that people are reacting this way when you demonstrated that you are willing to quickly learn from your mistakes and change your ways when a mistake has been brought to your attention.

Yes, it's wrong.  We aren't talking a minor annoyance. we are talking about a permanent hurt that will leave a hole in the heart of everyone who loves you for the rest of their life.  

Seek a therapist, or seek a religion, seek out someone to love, look for new hobbies or experiences.   Life goes on, it gets better. <3

If you're getting to the point where you're considering suicide, at least order some LSD, mushrooms, or MDMA from the Silk Road and have a few good trips first. Worst case scenario, it provides no additional insight and you kill yourself with a few more experiences under your belt. Best case scenario, you gain a new perspective on life and find a reason to live.

To answer your question, no I do not think it is morally wrong, but from an outside perspective it is stupid and wasteful. It's your life to live or end, but ending it will hurt those that care about you.

You're going to die anyways. Why rush the inevitable? At least if you stick around you have the chance to have some fun.

Why not join Plato on his Bitcoin roadtrip (if that's still underway)? You'd do some cool and enjoyable things with like-minded people.

Are you claiming you are going to kill yourself?

If so, call the hospital or the police.

P.S. I hope this doesn't have anything to do with your ex 22 yr old girlfriend I saw you posting about on reddit... chicks can really mess a guy up, trust me I know, but they are not worth that much.

Brain chemistry is not some dark art where "magic pills" dictate your behavior, you fucking nutbag. The kid probably does need medication to even out his abnormal mood swings. Yeah, the fact that medications are allowed to be advertised for in America is not a good thing, but most of the drugs on the market today have years of studies behind them that confirm their effectiveness.

Don't ever tell people they shouldn't take medication prescribed to them, especially when it could help someone like Atlas, who is clearly unstable, have a much more enjoyable life, you fucking tinfoil-hat wearing nutcase.

Also Atlas, stop setting such impossibly high goals for yourself. You are 17, you are not supposed to have accomplished much at this point in your life, you are right on track. Learn to accept that everyone is a dumb teenager at 17, even yourself, and that includes all the terrible get-rich-quick schemes that comes with it.

You will never become some bizarre Randian superhuman that creates impossible new metals and physics-breaking devices, but that's OK because it is normal.


Go down to the town pool and go swimming. Dig up some old N64 games. Go skateboard in a park.

Quit hanging around with this forum full of paranoids and go be 17, for fuck's sake.

Wow! Did someone skip his meds today? ;)

(Yes, Atlas, If the doc gives you something to even your moods, FFS take them. MtGox is enough rollercoaster, you don't need two)

I'd like to second the Silk Road suggestion, that stuff has certainly improved my life. You're young and the world is changing for the better! Give it a chance!

I've lost a lot of friends to cancer, drugs and suicide. I have absolutely no respect for this boo hoo cry baby shit. Be a man and take medication so you can be receptive to counselling. Or shut the fuck up permanently.

Edit: I have DMT if you want it. Free, just have to give me a few days to extract. Or buy it on Silk Road like everyone's suggesting. You need some perspective in your diet.

I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, and it's not relevant to this thread, anyway.

Having also lived in Texas for the first 21 years of my life, I feel you.  Place made me want to commit suicide too. 

If you decide to go out to vacation/get away, try anyplace but Oklahoma

Seriously. Try a little roadtrip or something before you make a decision with such finality. I find myself picking up and changing my whole life every four or five years cause I fall into a rut. Move to the other side of the country...hell, move OUT of the country. A change of scenery is the best way to see it's beauty.

You are aware suicide rates are higher for teens on medication than without. What's far worse is too be on them and swing back and forth not taking them as prescribed. I agree if Atlas is swinging on and off medication he needs to stop that whether taking them or not. Well aware of the psychiatric field and it's practices having a mother that worked in psychiatric ER and currently head of the county's drug rehabilitation center. Myself having been on the client side of those through out my teenage/young adult years and later helping those causes through various means. I speak with empathy and real knowledge of the situation Atlas speaks of. Spouting off the same old one solution fits all that's picked up from the tube is what causes folks to fall through the cracks of the system. I'm glad to agree with you on the prescription drug issue to a degree however you easily forget your pusher will always show you whats needed for the sale.

I hate to over simplify it, but that sounds like it's because kids who take meds have a problem, kids who don't take meds are fine.

There is a direct link between suicide rate increase among teens with the increase of prescriptions handed out. Efforts in recent years have helped curve this some since it became known. Keep in mind being in the state Atlas is in use to be just a teenager going through changes in life which is normal. Implying someone is different and has a disorder only further alienates them and their feelings from others that aren't labeled as such, compounding the issue further.

Obesity rates and Big Mac sales correlate, too. Does that mean shutting down McDonalds is going to make America skinny?

I'd wager 100btc shutting down current fast food chains would reduce American obesity.

Atlas reminds me of me when I was his age. Medication and counselling helped me out. I'm no longer medicated and I've taken control and responsibility of my actions and feelings. The drugs helped, but they only work if you use them as a stepping stone.

Edit: Looking back I know that eating well, exersizing, getting sun and stepping out of my comfort zone was all that I needed. Except it's not that easy when you're depressed. He needs to be fake happy for a little while so he can see what he's been missing.

Oh dear god Atlas do not kill yourself by listening to this nutcase.

Medication isn't the answer to everything, but psychiatrists aren't some Illuminati group. Jesus. SID sounds like someone I once knew.

Anyway, you're cool.

I'll take that bet, But first, go watch the fast food episode of Bullshit.

I'll be waiting on the deposit to the address in my sig.

Whenever i think killing myself makes sense i remember myself that a healthy mind would never come to that conclusion and just dismiss it as faulty and go after things that will help me to health up my mind.

myrkul is right here.

You could also watch Fat Head, the documentary where a guy lost weight eating fast food for a month.

Hell, I'd definitely take that bet, last time I cut some weight I did low-carb, and would have fast food like once a day and still lost a solid 2lb/week consistently.


Kids on meds have a higher suicide rate because they were already much much more likely to commit suicide.

Atlas, listen to doctors, not people who say "don't take medications" on an internet forum. Get a damn professional opinion, maybe hit the gym and start eating better, and try to improve your life before throwing it away.

And don't forget to sleep enough, sleep deprivation can seriously fuck you up

And don't jerk off too much, or smoke too much or drink too much. But for sure do all three. Just not too much.

As I understand it, the effect goes beyond that cause.

Some anti-depressants have two effects: they lift your mood, and they increase your general level of motivation. If a patient's motivation increases before their mood lifts, the patient feels that their life still sucks but is more likely to do something about it, and that something might be suicide.

In any case, for most people, the following things are way better than any prescription: sunshine, exercise, laughter, and friendly company. I suppose that sometimes the medication can make it easier to achieve laughter and friendly company, but sunshine and exercise are available to most people and are not plagued by side-effects.

With the exception of amphetamines, the level of increased motivation is almost always caused by the greater mood, though I will agree that sunshine and exercise heps a ton too.

Meds are good. Contrary to what the paranoid naysayers may be saying, the can help you think things through with a clearer head. They're not needed for the rest of your life, but while you're in a weird situation, with your brain doing stupid stuff, taking some for a few months may help you figure things out and get on more solid footing in your life. That's what happened with me, anyway.
Or you can just kill yourself *shrug* It's your choice. "What may be missed" is a fallacy.

A great deal depends on what kind of depression you're talking about.  Unipolar depression tends to respond well to antidepressants but it's not an either/or - good sleep hygiene, exercise, eating well, stress reduction, etc are also pretty essential to recovery. For most people, there'll be no reason to remain on antidepressants for more than a few months after their depression has lifted.

Bipolar depression is a different beast and there's a significant risk of antidepressants triggering a manic or mixed episode in people with bipolar disorder.  People with bipolar disorder have a lifetime risk of completed suicide between 10% and 15%, depending on whose statistics you use, and mixed and manic states are the most dangerous for this because of the despair/motivation (motivation can be destructive as well as positive) combination you mentioned.  Bipolar disorder can easily be overlooked and misdiagnosed as unipolar depression because people don't go to their doctor when they're feeling on top of the world - the first indication of bipolar disorder can be a too rapid or too dramatic response to antidepressant.  People with bipolar disorder will generally be on mood stabilisers long-term because preventing further episodes is critical to minimising the suicide risk, but there are a ton of non-pharmaceutical things which need to be done in conjunction with medication in order to manage bipolar disorder well.

So, Atlas has gone pretty long without posting for someone who has a 10+ post per day ratio.

Probably just taking the advice of those in this thread, and decompressing some. More power to him.

Best thing is to bury this thread and move on.

Hope so, he deleted his reddit (http://"http://www.reddit.com/user/AtlasLGo") but also was last active 2 hours ago, though that could be family members using the PC

This seems like a huge publicity stunt to get more ratings... I mean were it atom in all this?

I wouldn't blame him for "killing himself off from the bitcoin forums" I mean with all this hoarding I've gone else where to make my money

Reddit was deleted a while ago, but yeah, maybe just decompressing then. Hope so.

Edit: He posted minutes ago.

There is no right or wrong. Your choices are highly influenced by your environment. Examine your environment to determine what influences your thinking process. You can make a better choice after that.

That is not the best advice in some cases, if your head is messed up enough you will highlight and exaggerate bad things and dismiss or outright ignore the good stuff

this

people cause their own troubles.

If you are currently under contract of any sort than suicide would be a breach of contract.

On a more moral level I think it is wrong if you have taken responsibility for caring for someone else, whether by having children or taking on the responsibility for someone who is handicapped.

Can you provide a source for these alleged statistics?  Call me curious.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=suicide+rates+teens+medication

Lots of stuff out there. As with most statistics, you can make the numbers say whatever you want.

Perhaps I'm not being clear?  I meant your statistical source for your opinion (well originally I meant 'slaveindebt' but now that you've seemingly picked up the "torch of stupid").   Not every website which happens to agree with your position.  See the difference?

When you pick a source that you think is credible. Then I'll tear it apart.   ;D


Not really.  For example you can't for a given sample and a given confidence level validate an arbitrary confidence interval.
...or is this your way of giving up without a fight.  How disappointing!

Atlas says he wants to kill himself, so we spend half the thread arguing about whether medications are good or bad?!?    ???


Atlas, I've gotten the impression that you don't like me, which is fine, but I want to say this:  don't kill yourself.

Perhaps you are already past the low point and are doing fine now, but it may come again.  And when it does, hang on.  Years from now when you look back you will be glad that you did and you will find things to enjoy in life that make it worth it. 

Also, you should not be alone on this, you need human support, and I don't mean pseudo-anonymous internet "friends".  I don't know your family and friend situation, but you need to talk to people you trust who care about you.  They can help you hang in there when it gets tough.  Anyway, man, please stick with this life thing.  It's worth it and you will not regret the decision.

IMO, any single person's life is pretty meaningless(always end up in the tomb),  but if for some reason you becomes valueable for someone/somthing, your life start to gain some meaning

 It ain't wrong to take your life. It's actually better that being taken by others. You are responsible of other's feeling that is why you have to prepare them. I think of suicide a lot lately , most of the time when the effects of drugs are wearing off, but the most horrific times are when waking up after a heavy drinking night, completely unaware of what happened the past night, I keep seeing myself jumping of my balcony , cutting myself , sometimes devil faces hallucinations  :o (even if i'm atheist) , But then i think why would i do that , why would i end my life , why would i shut down my brain , why would i stop talking to my friends , why would i stop having fun , and simply shut down myself. I don't believe in afterlife or shit like this so this won't make it easier it would just stop , everything . Even if I would of been worthless , after this i would of became even more so. I would be food for the worms.

So bro your entire life , every happening , every color , every conversation , every substance you had contact with in you life "programed" your brain and your genes in a way that is UNIQUE to you, don't destroy it , use them , and pass them on. Take your friends and talk your problems with them ,( if you think that your problems aren't to be talked with them then they aren't real friends ) and resolve them using your uniqueness.

Don't go to shrinks unless you want to get drugged , otherwise they will sound like imbeciles , they use drugs to "soften" your brain and make it more receptive to their "advice" . This might help but in the long run it might makes things worse because at some point you have to quit both the meds and the nice shrink stories and talking . You've done the best thing so far you acknowledged that you might have a problem , now you can resolve it and you are the only one who actually can.

SO . It ain't wrong but it's a waste . Is waste wrong? No but still  WASTE.

There are all sorts of meds and they may have all sorts of different side-effects depending on each person, don't dismiss advice from actual professionals of the area just because random people that didn't study the brain and it's workings tell you about what they believe in

stop bumping this, for christ's sake.

Actually it depends on the situations, if those who value you always keep an eye on you,
then those who value you will have to take decission first :)

U are talking about US default right ?

Was trying to avoid bumping this but... US default? What the fuck does this have to do with the US default?

Can we please stop bumping this injury to Atlas' ego? I admire that he hasn't deleted it yet, if this continues for much longer maybe this should just be locked. Jesus. He posted this when he was depressed and would probably like to forget it now.