Bitcoin Forum

Per my understanding, current cryptocurrencies are not suitable for payment since their value is not stable. So they are more like a cryptoasset.
Will anybody use bitcoin to pay for a coffee now?
USDT is a solution since it provide a stable value, but it is actually not a decentralized currency.
Is there any solution to have a decentralized solution and at the same time with a stable value?
I think there is a big opportunity to make a cryptocurrency that has a stable value and could be used for payment.

So what is your solution for bitcoin to have a stable price? For decentralized systems it is very difficult to manage a price or even highly unlikely. But anyway I agree with you if bitcoin works more as cryptoasset not as cryptocurrency, because it happens to me, prefer to make it as an investment and trading tool in appeal for a payment.

It's not like they are not suitable for payments.
Thing about it like that, the US dollar is also not stable against other currencies, but we use USD in the USA because that's the only currency, we don't really mind what is the price of the USD against other currencies while we use it.
Same goes with bitcoin, if everybody uses the currency then prices will be determined in bitcoin only, and not in bitcoin converted to USD, so it won't be any problem.
Bitcoin is still young and that's the reason it's price is pretty much crazy, it's hard to determine how much it's actually worth.

Because if bitcoins price going up and down drastically, it's got the attention of big investors and when people treat it as an asset more than a currency (not saying that is not used as a currency at all, just not as much as it should be), it's bound to continue on that path and solidify as an asset. That's why I don't think we'll ever see BTC used as an everyday currency.

Wrong. They are suitable for payments, you can actually buy stuff (a house, a t-shirt, digital goods, etc) using cryptocurrencies, though only a handful of cryptos are being accepted by merchants.

With how cheap the fees have been over the past few weeks (1-10 Sat/b), yes, everyone can pay for a coffe now.

USDT is a ticking time bomb, I wouldn't count on such a shady cryptocurrency as a a solution for anything.

Again, cryptocurrencies are being used as payments by many people around the globe even though they are highly volatile. Also, it would be really difficult to create a "stable" cryptocurrency since, one way or another, it would be part of the high volatility and movements of the crypto market.

Cryptocurrencies because represent a deeply flawed form of money, but policymakers should be careful not to crack down too hard on “crypto-assets,” Mark Carney ...

There several misconceptions about the terms “digital assets” and “cryptocurrencies”. You see the two words used interchangeably but that is technically not correct. In every way, a cryptocurrency can be regarded as a digital asset but substituting the latter for the former is more often than not wrong. There are some attributes that are quite differentiating about the meaning of a digital asset and what should be referred to as a cryptocurrency. But still I'll go with cryptocurrency because its the best.

Nothing is really "stable", the price of coffee changes and nobody argues that the dollar is not stable in relation to the coffee. Stability in a way is linked to being backed up by real economies.

it seems very difficult to use as a means of payment, big price changes can not be stable for long term unlike the USD is always stable does not change much with other currencies, bitcoin is better used as a digital asset. Hopefully there is a suitable crypto.

I do think that any decentralized exchange will have very high chance or being unstable rather than stable.
Also offcourse cryptocurrency is not something that one can use for the payment since the value goes up and down a lot and... Developing a system..where the price is..in accordance with the current price and converting it into Bitcoins and then giving correct information.. a software like that is still under development..after that only we would be able to decide if thats a good solution or not ...but it's been so many years and we haven't seen anything like that on a larger scale so we need to wait and see...first

Do you think fiat is stable? It took them decades and decades for it to appear stable, it is still not stable but it's inflation has been made smaller and smaller. Crypto is an entire different thing, you cannot expect coins in crypto to remain stable so it can be used for a cup of coffee etc. You can only do that by keeping up with its price and accept payments on current worth. But it might be best to create a crypto that always remains $1 in value, so people can use that for coffee etc, and later on exchange that into fiat or any other crypto like BTC. This way it can be used in the real world and cryptos ups and downs will have no effect upon it either.

What is your understanding of a stable currency? Why do you think that bitcoin is not a stable currency? Maybe this is because we have to determine its price against the dollar? After bitcoin will be used to buy goods in the store, the price of coins will become more stable. Now the speculators have endless possibilities because all exchange cryptocurrency for Fiat.

It is technically an asset and currency at the same time. Given that there are still countries where cryptos are not yet legal as a currency, it cannot be freely used to buy things but it's not because of its natural volatility in the market but because some countries chose to do so. Volatility is a natural phenomenon and characteristic of crypto so we can't do something about it.

Its not fair to compare new and emerging technologies like bitcoin to old and established technologies like fiat currencies which are centuries old.

Yes bitcoin carries a respectable degree of volatility which can make business difficult for those who do not exchange btc for fiat immediately after transactions are conducted. It helps to remember crypto is in its infancy. Its a developing and emerging trend which has plenty of space for growth and technology-wise it may only improve in the future as better innovations and greater support for mining with nvidia, samsung and russia throwing their hats in the ASIC industry, with markets becoming more decentralized.

There's an exchange named Robinhood which recently gained more than 1 million traders after it announced support for crypto currencies. Awhile ago coinbase added more than 100,000 new accounts in a single day. We have statistics that say the number of total crypto users doubles every 16 months. There are plenty of positives to focus on. Yet somehow people fixate and can only talk about "volatility". I don't get it.

yes, I think for now crypto would be more appropriate if used as an investment asset because the level of stability does not yet exist. as with bitcoin people will tend to choose as an investment option for many investors. fluctuations in bitcoin prices in the current trading market are triggered by several factors and one of the most volatile price factors is that for now the Volatility in the Bitcoin market does not yet have a generally accepted index.

Cryptos are suitable for payment at least, that was the main concept that evolves it creation; to create an anonymous payment system. Its just unfortunate that the issues we will be having regard this is the instability price and the probably high transaction fee. But yet, its may not be possible to have a stable price. So its left for the owner to either want to use it as an asset or for making payment online.

Actually crypto that exist today can be for the payment of goods, but maybe not all goods that can pay, maybe only part if it is crypto not stable ....
Thank you

Our walet supports that and they also started a campaign towards their services to the people and every update gives us users more convenient features and the recently added an altcoin ETH. The app is called Coins.ph. although the services are all focused in the Philippines but we do have a wallet similar to paypal that pays stable amount and that wallet can be converted to ETH OR BTC.

Unfortunately this might be true. Such a high degree of volatility makes using cryptocurrency as a payment system very troublesome for the merchants. Few merchants removed it recently because of this, a good example being Steam. There are few workarounds for this like a payment processor like bitpay, but that's not how BTC was meant to use. I'm the end BTC might remain as an asset.

There are some projects working on this issue, but seems there is no a perfect solution for this till now.
Vitalik also addressed this issue in his article on 2014, "The search for a stable cryptocurrency".
A project named "Maker" is working on this issue, not sure if it could success,  I'll keep an eye on their latest update.

I think crypto currencies will get stable price when all the people in the world starts using cryptos.And it is also suitable for small payment too because bitcoin is not the only crypto available there are other crypto arealso available which is suitable for small payment like buying a coffee.

For now the most correct term will be crypto assets, most of the people using crypto as investment not as currency the reasons is because not a lot of places accepting Bitcoin yet, so it's not too convenient to be spent, in the future Bitcoin will become more stable and able to be used as currency

Exactly. I consider it assets as well. It has now become as store of wealth the the currency that we are expecting is not yet happening. On the contrary, a lot of companies are still not accepting bitcoin and most recently Steam stop accepting it as well. So the original vision of Satoshi has been buried and bitcoin now turns to be the playground of most the rich.

However, the fees is now lowered and transactions are very fast as well. And when LN be implement, I'm sure that we can now realized the dream of Satoshi because we can used bitcoin then as mode of payment.

I agree with this position. It might never be that we are going to see bitcoin taken over the burden of financial transactions totally because other minor payments that we are currently not being able to carry out now with bitcoin would still be there. This is one big challenge. I just see it as dominating the crypto space and alternative to fiat (maybe).

More users doesn't necessarily mean cryptos are thriving as a currency though. Lots of these users talk about HODLing and investing, which doesn't help their case as a currency. But yeah, I don't get the whole drama surrounding it either. Why can't it be both? Users can use them for whatever they wish, and they seem to work well enough to attract new people every day anyway. They can grow in value, making them a good asset, and they're easy to transfer and split, making them ideal as a currency in the most basic sense.

CryptoAsset is more synonymous and distinctively close to what bitcoins, ethereum and other cryptocurrencies
are positioned currently in the market. With the way things are going with bitcoins, people are more likely to hold
their coins and wait for a few more months before selling, when prices are more better. A lot of investors I believe
have contributed to this current occupation with the release and promises of upcoming icos and the potential they
harbor. But they are also effective payment options, they are working digital currencies but people are more
interested with them more as assets nowadays because it's very capable in being so.

Yes, i think Bitcoin is more like cryptoasset now rather than cryptocurrency and its true because 1 btc is so much even can be compared to a car rather than primary goods such as t-shirt or coffee. Other cryptocurrencies such as ETH might be consider more stable and much more suitable for payment now rather than bitcoin and consider the cheap fee nowadays might put good words for bitcoin in the meantime but what if the transaction fee rose again just like in december when high fee and long transaction queue happened, do we need to wait for days to accept payment for a cup of coffee?

Although, there are some cryptocurrencies that can be used for payment of goods, most coins are still not accepted and can only be used as an asset.
Cryptocurrencies in themselves are not the problem. They are not the reason for not being use for payment. The problem lies with the people, those who are involved with cryptocurrencies.  Most people use cryptocurrencies as asset and do has lost it's function as a means of payment.

Other than its volatility getting in the way, an additional issue would be the lack of adoption. Bitcoin cannot yet be used as a payment system because although it is already being used globally for payments, there is only limited use. Another problem would be the transaction fee for bitcoin because it is too high. Imagine having to pay for a good then paying more than the amount of the good just to make a transfer. If that were the case, I would opt for other payment methods.

As for now, bitcoin is ideal as a payment system but cannot be realized yet so most see it as a crypto-asset and would rather store it for future value.

Unless you're only paying a few cents for what you're buying or you're paying from an exchange, this shouldn't be true. Fees have been low for a while now. That being said, it could change in a hurry, which brings us to another problem: scalability. Let's hope the Lightning Network can address it.

I disagree, since cryptocurrency is new currency with relatively low liquidity then its fluctuations price is normal. I think bitcoin can be more stable in the future when the number of bitcoin users in online shop is larger then in trading platform. Any cryptocurrency will not stable if there are many people that can influence the price in exchanges.

Well bitcoin and cryptocurrency are introduced wrong to a lot of people instead of cryptocurrency a lot of people are mistaking it for an asset they're not using it as a currency and i think this has a big effect in cryptocurrency in the future although you can really make money out of crypto it's still wrong that people didn't use cryptocurrency for it's main purpose.
 

the cryptocurrencies market is very young and there are so much for better. In this moment there are some projects in development addressed at solve the Bitcoin fee issue. there is another Altcoins that bet to became in pay way for different services and goods online, put your eyes on KIN, NANO, TRX. Everyone knows to USDT is a time bomb that anytime go off (I would not advise to invest to it)

Personally I would consider it as an asset for now. But I also believe a solution will be there soon or naturally when cryptocurrency gets older it will be more stable.

Definitely cant be said as currency. It can be termed as crypto asset cause it is a store of value. Nobody can use bitcoin to pay for a coffee cause first of all the prices are pretty unstable and secondly the transaction takes long to get confirmed and your coffee will get cold.

Moreover you don’t wanna pay 5-13$ fees to buy a coffee worth 2$. I don’t think there is any solution to have stable value with a decentralized platform. Stability of value can only be achieved if the platform is centralized. Though blockchain technology can been used, but centralization is must.

What risks do you see in USDT?

Exactly. Something extremely volatile won't be backed upnto be used as a currency. And people don't actually see it as such. Ask anyone about bitcoin and you'd get the same response that it's something that can generate profit either though trading or holding. As long as its unstable, it would be very hard to use it in transactions

The bitcoin volatile when the price was up and down it is very attractive to people and has many investors interested in this kind of asset in bitcoin. Bitcoin won't be stable because at this asset volatile and you can't control of this because of decentralized bitcoin, so now the best asset on bitcoin is attracted more investors so that bitcoin making expensive to the market if that happens the price also was expensive.

There's no reason to be stabled bitcoin price because of this asset we all get involving bitcoin.

i think that its volatility has more to do with it being on its early phases than the actual technology itself. Good technology could help it get to a wide adoption and if we reach that point then maybe its volatility will decrease. It's true, it's more of an asset now, since it's way too valuable to use to pay for coffee. And maybe that's a good thing? There are so many opportunities for people present during the early adoption phase, and we are experiencing those opportunities right now. 

For me cryptocurrency and crypto assets are the same, because when we are using cryptocurrency and we have a lots of stocks, it is already an assets. But if someone wants that price of cryptocurrency stable, this is what happening today in the market, that price of bitcoin almost  three weeks stay at a middle line, that price is actually wants people before that price become stable. And it comes now, is there any persons who says thanks to the price of bitcoin today? What I mean is the reality of people life's are not contented on what they have now today, and I really accept the fact, that being me also today, is not really what I want, and I'm not totally contented of what I have reached. Likewise also in bitcoin business, people are not contented on the price given.

OK, BTC in real world can't be a convenient payment method. But imagine a blockchain-based service (like p2p house swaping, for example) with its internal cryptocurrency. Its price is determined by amount of active users, so it's not centralized. And cryptocurrency is used to pay for rent.

Cryptocurrency that runs on the decentralized blockchain technology will not be able to have a stable value because it is a community driven asset unlike USD which is controlled by a government that is why it is stable. I usually use Bitcoin in buying prepaid load and paying bills because of it's fast and convenient transaction. Unstable digital money can be used in any transaction depending on what we want though very volatile but still is way more advance than that of fiat money.

You are comparing to two totally different things. Changes in the price coffee or any other stuff has nothing to do with the price of USD or any other fiat currency. I don’t understand how can you even compare such things. Doesn’t even make any sense. It’s the demand or popularity that increases the price of coffee or any other stuff, it has nothing to do with change or stability in price of USD. I agree to the last statement that stability is linked by being backed up by real economic structures like banks and other financial institutions and supports.

The crypto currency is crypto currency, which we can using it for a various activities that can indeed be done depending on the conditions of our existences on each countries. It is just an alternative currency that some can already use it to buy something and just as an asset to gain profit. Which's clear to me that only digital currency as an alternative currency that have a various advantages.
Used for what, or for any activities, honestly for me personally.. I'm not too concerned about that or more considered, I just hope the government in my country can respond well to the crypto till can giving more support on it.

The volatility of the bitcoin's value cannot make it like the fiat money. But similar to fiat money this type of currency can be called an asset. An asset that exist only in a dimension that is not physical and only in digital form. But still like the fiat currency this might be used in payment transactions.

Though it took long for the prices of USD and other fiat currencies to stable, atleast they were able to bring stability and reduce the volatility of the currency cause if was centralized and had financial backing. But if you see bitcoin and other crypto assets, none of them have proper backing by any financial institutions and moreover they are decentralized, which make is quite hard to stabilize the price, nearly impossible. Even if we give this time, its highly unlikely to stabilize even after long period of time.

Nope you cannot buy a house with bitcoin if your country has not legalised bitcoin. There are still paperwork and other stuffs to buy a house. Moreover everything is to be mentioned in the taxes that we pay.

Its impossible to buy house with bitcoin where it is not legalised. 1-10 sats fees? May I please know what wallet you are using exactly? And finally crypto assets are being use as payment only where it is legalised in the world and not everywhere. Its legalization has been limited to quite very few countries. Please do some proper research and you will see it as an asset rather than currency.

Lets go technical.

What is an asset by definition? Basically it is a property owned by a person that has some value. So Bitcoin can definitely be call an asset as it fulfill this definition.

What is a currency by definition?? It is a system of money that a country is using. Now there is a problem here since Bitcoin is not being used by a country then we can not call it as a currency.

People are using it as a payment but it does not mean it is a currency.

I can buy a gadget by paying them some assets in return like gold or silver but it does not mean gold or silver is a currency. Same thing work with Bitcoin.

As of now no matter how we view it Bitcoin is still an asset and I do not know if there will be a time that a country will adapt Bitcoin as a currency.

I just cant remember where did i got to read an topic about KFC accept bitcoin as payment,your asking about who will pay for coffee using bitcoin but theres someone paying chicken using this coin for sure,or maybe mushed potatoes,or mushroom soup maybe this means we dont have to create whats you asking for,if there's establishment that starts to accepts this and furthermore in future

Bitcoin cannot yet have a stable price. It has not got to its peak. At present, there is still at the formative days, with blockchain technology continuously being explored more and more. Until that time when bitcoin has and blockcain has achieved its optimum usability, it will continue to be an asset.

Yup that's what we can do really, we should be following indirect methods of paying stuff around us in the real life. The crypto assets can always be used as was of storing our money and on the bigger perspective it could also become profitable as the value keep increasing for most of the coins. So we have like dual advantage of this coin.

The volatility issue should not be put forth so dramatically and must be ignored if crypto currencies can benefit us so much. There should not be any discrepancies while using them if we have both direct and indirect ways of spending it.

In my opinion, you can use either of the term to pronounce any of the crypto currency as name has nothing to do with any such thing. Crypto currency is the most appropriate word as far as I think so as people are using it for buying of different sort of things as well and are also using it for trading purpose and above all, people are also holding it in the very similar manner the way they hold their paper money into their accounts.

I consider this thing as a Cryptoasset since this is not accepted yet and the volatility of its price might cause you a loss on your portfolio when using it as mode of payment specially with a small transactions. I know time will come that cryptocurrency will consider as an digital currency that we can use around the world.