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Title: Can US citizens expect the same fate on Havelock? Post by: bobdude17 on October 08, 2013, 09:41:02 PM Is there even a solution here?
Title: Re: Can US citizens expect the same fate on Havelock? Post by: ar9 on October 08, 2013, 09:45:50 PM Well.. Havelock is based out of Canada and BTC-TC was based out of "Belize" but operating out of Oregon... so there's that...
Title: Re: Can US citizens expect the same fate on Havelock? Post by: chriswilmer on October 08, 2013, 09:49:03 PM I would also like to know...
Title: Re: Can US citizens expect the same fate on Havelock? Post by: bobdude17 on October 08, 2013, 10:30:39 PM Move to 796.com perhaps? Hong Kong doesn't seem to give a fuck.
Title: Re: Can US citizens expect the same fate on Havelock? Post by: bobboooiie on October 08, 2013, 10:32:28 PM Well at this point it will happen everywhere and then some JD etc no excluded, until we get up p2p stuff for everything US gov is going to be doing this.
Title: Re: Can US citizens expect the same fate on Havelock? Post by: bobdude17 on October 08, 2013, 10:35:23 PM Well at this point it will happen everywhere and then some JD etc no excluded, until we get up p2p stuff for everything US gov is going to be doing this. Right but Hong Kong might be one of the few places that flips the USG the bird when they tell 796 to cut off their American investors. Title: Re: Can US citizens expect the same fate on Havelock? Post by: bobboooiie on October 08, 2013, 10:37:34 PM Well at this point it will happen everywhere and then some JD etc no excluded, until we get up p2p stuff for everything US gov is going to be doing this. Right but Hong Kong might be one of the few places that flips the USG the bird when they tell 796 to cut off their American investors. "Hong kong" doesnt run that exchange though... If you are threatened by US GOV as a person who run small business its up to you what do you do. And look how brave ethan and ukyo are beeing ... Title: Re: Can US citizens expect the same fate on Havelock? Post by: Luckybit on October 08, 2013, 10:38:15 PM Well at this point it will happen everywhere and then some JD etc no excluded, until we get up p2p stuff for everything US gov is going to be doing this. The US government isn't doing this. It's paranoid of people running the exchanges doing this. The SEC has legalized crowdfunding and the new law is set to take effect this year. SecondMarket already has a Bitcoin Trust for accredited investors. Unaccredited investors will be able to invest sometime in late 2013 when the SEC phases that into effect. Bitfunder and BTCT are basically creating an opportunity for another exchange to start up and launch in late 2013 offering equity crowd funding for unaccredited investors. BTCT and Bitfunder could have waited a few months but I think the arrests from the FBI and their legal advisers have them spooked. Title: Re: Can US citizens expect the same fate on Havelock? Post by: mgio on October 08, 2013, 10:38:59 PM Maybe I should start a company to develop a P2P exchange. I could raise money for it on bitfunder....oh wait
Title: Re: Can US citizens expect the same fate on Havelock? Post by: bobdude17 on October 08, 2013, 10:39:50 PM Well at this point it will happen everywhere and then some JD etc no excluded, until we get up p2p stuff for everything US gov is going to be doing this. Right but Hong Kong might be one of the few places that flips the USG the bird when they tell 796 to cut off their American investors. "Hong kong" doesnt run that exchange though... If you are threatened by US GOV as a person who run small business its up to you what do you do. And look how brave ethan and ukyo are beeing ... No but they are a legally registered Hong Kong exchange. Which might give them some protection. The Hong Kong government might not care if the SEC has an issue with one of their registered businesses. Title: Re: Can US citizens expect the same fate on Havelock? Post by: Luckybit on October 08, 2013, 10:40:35 PM Well at this point it will happen everywhere and then some JD etc no excluded, until we get up p2p stuff for everything US gov is going to be doing this. Right but Hong Kong might be one of the few places that flips the USG the bird when they tell 796 to cut off their American investors. But even if the SEC would say that and it makes no sense why they would, the new law takes effect in a matter of months. Crowdfunding is not going to be illegal in 2014 so by the time the SEC does do something it will be legal anyway. If the exchange is not in the USA then it probably wont be worth it for the SEC to bother with it. If the exchange is in the US that is an exchange which will probably have to shut down until 2014 to US customers. Bitfunder and others could encourage US investors to wait it out, I'm not sure why they want to initiate panic selling. Title: Re: Can US citizens expect the same fate on Havelock? Post by: bobboooiie on October 08, 2013, 10:42:11 PM what time it is in most of the US countries btw ? Is this being outed why most of the america is awake at least ?
Title: Re: Can US citizens expect the same fate on Havelock? Post by: Luckybit on October 08, 2013, 10:44:46 PM "Title III of the JOBS Act: Public Securities Crowd Investing. This next part of the JOBS Act is probably what the law is best known for: legalizing securities crowd investing. More specifically, a company can raise up to $1 million within a 12 month period from the general public through a broker-dealer or ‘funding portal’ website. Investors are subject to annual investment caps based on their income or wealth, and there are investor education requirements, as well as limits on general advertising. This portion of the law also requires SEC rulemaking before it can ‘go live.’ The SEC is now nine months late on issuing new rules, although the prevailing expectation based on Commission statements is that proposed rules will be out this fall. Nevertheless, until final rules are issued, securities crowd investing is not permitted. Instead, only close cousin 506(c) investing is available to a limited percentage of the population. For the sake of clarity, let’s differentiate between non-financial-return or donation-based ‘crowdfunding,’ Title II 506(c) investing, and Title III: crowd investing.
Title IV of the JOBS Act: Regulation A+. This next title of the JOBS Act potentially increases the attractiveness of another securities registration exemption. Regulation A has permitted the sale of securities to both accredited and unaccredited investors so long as the issuer files a mini-registration with the SEC and complies with relevant state law requirements in each state where funds are solicited. One online issuer, Fundrise, has used this exemption to raise money from investors in Washington, D.C. and Virginia for a local commercial real estate project. Title IV of the JOBS Act increases the offering limit from $5 million to $50 million in a 12-month period, requires that certain filings be provided to investors, and provides for annual audited financial statements. This portion of the law requires SEC rulemaking before going live, which has to date not yet occurred. For the sake of clarity, lawyers and wonks tend to call this portion of the law: Reg A+ investing." http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2013/10/08/the-jobs-act-isnt-all-crowdfunding/ Title: Re: Can US citizens expect the same fate on Havelock? Post by: btceic on October 08, 2013, 10:45:36 PM what time it is in most of the US countries btw ? Is this being outed why most of the america is awake at least ? 6:45PM est Title: Re: Can US citizens expect the same fate on Havelock? Post by: bitrich on October 08, 2013, 10:52:19 PM All seems a bit sketchy to me, I wasnt holding anything on bitfunder or btct except for NEOBEE pre-ipvo but I liquidated those immediately and invested at havelock. I'm holding a few on havelock. I don't think havelock will have any trouble, the crowdfunding law passed and we should be ok once that takes effect. With the current U.S. shutdown/default situation, I think I would be a fool to sell ANY possible shelters from US economic disaster. So you won't find me panic selling.
Title: Re: Can US citizens expect the same fate on Havelock? Post by: shadallion on October 08, 2013, 11:17:23 PM What a horrible day for bitcoin.
Guess I just have to keep holding, as I wasn't among the lucky few who happened to be sitting at their computers with their finger hovered over the "Sell" button the instant this news was - unconscionably - posted on the bitfunder page. Title: Re: Can US citizens expect the same fate on Havelock? Post by: bobdude17 on October 09, 2013, 01:09:38 AM Well at this point it will happen everywhere and then some JD etc no excluded, until we get up p2p stuff for everything US gov is going to be doing this. Right but Hong Kong might be one of the few places that flips the USG the bird when they tell 796 to cut off their American investors. "Hong kong" doesnt run that exchange though... If you are threatened by US GOV as a person who run small business its up to you what do you do. And look how brave ethan and ukyo are beeing ... No but they are a legally registered Hong Kong exchange. Which might give them some protection. The Hong Kong government might not care if the SEC has an issue with one of their registered businesses. ActiveMining has sent a request to be listed on www.796.com Any other securities? Title: Re: Can US citizens expect the same fate on Havelock? Post by: talnted on October 09, 2013, 02:50:04 PM I hope that we do not see the same thing happen to Havelock
Title: Re: Can US citizens expect the same fate on Havelock? Post by: gog1 on October 09, 2013, 03:04:16 PM Well at this point it will happen everywhere and then some JD etc no excluded, until we get up p2p stuff for everything US gov is going to be doing this. Right but Hong Kong might be one of the few places that flips the USG the bird when they tell 796 to cut off their American investors. Can't the US just seize the domain? It's .com after all and US controls it. havelock is in Canada, it's more less like the 51st state, not sure how safe it would be. Title: Re: Can US citizens expect the same fate on Havelock? Post by: Rannasha on October 09, 2013, 03:05:47 PM Well at this point it will happen everywhere and then some JD etc no excluded, until we get up p2p stuff for everything US gov is going to be doing this. Right but Hong Kong might be one of the few places that flips the USG the bird when they tell 796 to cut off their American investors. Can't the US just seize the domain? It's .com after all and US controls it. It doesn't take much time or effort to register a new domain. Title: Re: Can US citizens expect the same fate on Havelock? Post by: talnted on October 09, 2013, 03:08:08 PM I am glad havelock is based out of Canada
Title: Re: Can US citizens expect the same fate on Havelock? Post by: SgtSpike on October 09, 2013, 03:13:32 PM What a horrible day for bitcoin. It seems like anyone who sold based on this news is left holding the bag. Price is up $3-$4 compared to yesterday.Guess I just have to keep holding, as I wasn't among the lucky few who happened to be sitting at their computers with their finger hovered over the "Sell" button the instant this news was - unconscionably - posted on the bitfunder page. Title: Re: Can US citizens expect the same fate on Havelock? Post by: fattypig on October 09, 2013, 03:18:42 PM Sell before you can, not creating panic just advice :)
Title: Re: Can US citizens expect the same fate on Havelock? Post by: MPOE-PR on October 12, 2013, 06:35:34 PM What a horrible day for bitcoin. Guess I just have to keep holding, as I wasn't among the lucky few who happened to be sitting at their computers with their finger hovered over the "Sell" button the instant this news was - unconscionably - posted on the bitfunder page. It's not at all a horrible day for Bitcoin. It's a horrible day for people who put their money and their trust in play exchanges. It's a great day for Bitcoin, and every day that involves the destruction of something that does not work will be just such a great day. Allow me to shed some light on the matter. Bullshit non-companies imagining they're "involved in BTC" have been taking advantage of bullshit non-exchanges imagining they're "innovating in BTC finance" even before MPEx was established. Unlike MPEx, those non-exchanges and a fair amount of non-businesses have crumbled. Spectacularly, and with about as much fallout as you'd expect from the implosion of bullshit scaffolding built ever and ever higher around the coins of those who don't know better or simply don't care 'til the money's gone. I've been here, pointing this out, repeatedly. Nefario: You are obviously unqualified to be anywhere near a project of the complexity of an exchange, even for play money (which I suspect BTC are, for most of you here, at least judging on behavior records). I will make you precisely one offer to buy the thing from you, so you get to actually make some money for all your effort over the past year, as misguided and mismanaged as it may have been, rather than have to walk away from a worthless wreck (like Zou Thong/Amir&co have with Bitcoinica). If you have half the maturity you should have to be involved in all this you will take this offer seriously, and consider your options carefully. Feel free to make contact via pm or in #bitcoin-otc-eu. It was said before, it will need (apparently) to be said again: GLBSE is a bad choice (http://polimedia.us/trilema/2012/security-comparison-of-bitcoin-denominated-instruments-exchanges/#comment-88416) for security and other reasons. We were hearing rumours for months (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=77268.msg983177#msg983177) that Pirate has in fact defaulted but the dummies that he had for "investors" were just letting it slide. We were hearing rumous for months that the passthroughs are only a convenient way to allow the scammer to pay some of the "inner circle" interest with fresh money from small timers who will never be repaid and can never do anything about it. By puncturing the circle of bullshit Bitlane did the community a big favour. The perpetrators of the passthrough scams however have a lot to answer for. And so does the Global Scam Exchange (http://polimedia.us/dtng/c/src/134654389322.png) that allowed all this to happen. Comparing yourself to shit does not make yourself look more attractive. Maybe you want to consider how to compare yourself to your current competitors instead of a failed operation from the past? There are no current competitors. There's MPEx, and there's various attempts to recreate GLBSE. These compete among themselves for the "most-GLBSE alike" title, and when they don't do that they negotiate to reunite into one single unity of fail, thus actually recreating their model. Outside of that pretend competition (as you can't really compete when there's no actual difference) there's no such thing as competition going on in BTC finance land: the play exchanges and MPEx couldn't compete if they wanted to, as they serve entirely disjunct markets. The random noob that started this thread for his literary-financial & fiducial new media etc project being a convenient point in case. I suppose at most you could say the competition is cultural, in the sense of sanity trying to compete with firm conviction. That's hardly any sort of competition either (http://trilema.com/2013/the-story-of-pointless-and-witless/). Every time a play exchange folds, or it's no longer possible to cover one's ears and pretend their major, gaping flaws aren't flaws, forumites and others who haven't yet realized that actual BTC finance happens on IRC (https://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=bitcoin-assets) panic in search of some easily recognizable replacement, whether it's another bullshit non-exchange, or whether it's a similarly broken idea riding on the wings of some dev concept (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=119073.msg1400494#msg1400494). As you somehow might not expect, though you should, these palliative measures aimed at making everything okay again for bullshit non-companies only ever repeat the cycle. What the hell happened? Was GLBSE the biggest ponzi scheme of all? https://glbse.com/ Quote GLBSE has been closed I'm sorry to inform all our users that GLBSE is no longer able to continue operating, and has now closed. Q: What does this mean if I'm an issuer? We will do everything in our power to make the process of moving off GLBSE as smooth as possible, we are currently working on a simple, safe, and easy to use method that will allow you to continue your relationship with your asset holders Q:I'm a GLBSE user, what about my assets and my bitcoin? You will be able to get back your bitcoin, and if you want to reveal your username, email, and a bitcoin address to accept payments with, you can continue your relationship with the issuer of any assets you hold. We will begin retuning bitcoin once we have recieved all coins from the GLBSE treasurer that manages the GLBSE cash reserves. BitcoinGlobal (GLBSE's partent company) shareholders and board voted for them to be returned immediately, we are awaiting compliance with this order. Wow. Who saw this coming? Think we will get all of our BTC back? Somewhat shocked that's it's just shutting down like this. I don't understand what happens to existing assets? I'm holding some that are not on any other exchanges..? Fuck what a shit-show. The solution to all of this is not packaging up "the community"'s collective cluelessness and sending it off to Nanny Gov so that a hand much harder, meaner, and indiscriminate than mine can smack people every time they put money and thoughtless cheering into bullshit. GPG contracts (http://trilema.com/2012/gpg-contracts/). Security that isn't based on the limitations of a "slick" website (http://trilema.com/2012/security-comparison-of-bitcoin-denominated-instruments-exchanges/). Actual IPOs (http://mpex.co/?mpsic=S.MPOE) from actually planned out, accountable entities (http://trilema.com/2013/mpoe-september-2013-statement/). Yes, there's a fee. You're paying for that which works, which in the end is all that's worth paying for. No, I'm not especially nice in that In-N-Out Burger sort of way (though I'm just PR, you don't have to deal with me at all to use the exchange). The lies, the sugar-coating, the beating around the bush, is exactly for cheap food service and has no place in BTC finance. Plenty of people have thrown a fit over these facts, I'm sure plenty of people will continue to do so, and will continue to lose their money. MPEx will be right here. It sucks that people are out BTC, or are facing losses wholly unrelated to their "trading" choices. At some point though you've got to stop using junk, pay attention, and either get in the actual game or wait until you're informed and confident enough to come on in. |