Bitcoin Forum

Hey guys, just joined the forum and going through the announcements I found this OptiToken project. The team and white paper seem legit, and I like the idea of owning part of a portfolio that trades automatically, as I have tried trading but I'm a noob and suck at it.

The thing I'm not sure about is they plan on making it a hyperdeflationary currency in a way I haven't seen before. With the portfolio trading, they will use profits to buy their own tokens on the market to create "buy pressure" and then destroy the tokens they buy to create scarcity. They say this will create price growth (even in bear markets) and value for holders long term, and meanwhile the underlying grows... As I see it they are basically controlling the price of their own currency to make it grow... Does this make sense? Is it doable? I like the idea of owning a token that can see this kind of growth but I'm not sure if it can work...

ANN is here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2975245.0


PS: Tell me if this isn't the place to post this and I'll move it!

If you think projects pumping and manipulating their own prices one way or the other is new than you’re sadly mistaken my friend.. I will say that at least opti is doing in a positive positive manner only.. also the transparency is certainly going to assist them if they can maintain that element.

Practically all companies can do it.... Only for what they should raise the price of the token. I saw the company which don't want to join them the new exchanges and so everything arranges.

Yes they can especially if they have kept a large chunk of coins for themselves after the ico, transparency is the key, i personally do not like icos where teams reserve big percentage for themselves, team and advisors as they can manipulate and control the market anytime they want.

Not only those teams,existing coins has a lot of manipulations especially those coins which the supply are being use to manipulate its price,for example XRP most of the supply is in the founder,develpers etc they can easily dump those coins when the market has gone bull run,the result? instead of getting price improvements it will go sideways then fail at end leaving those small investors rekt.

Always read white paper. There you will find the answer. How much money does the project developers have? If it is more than 51%, yes, they can manipulate the price. If the tokens are frozen and gradually unblocked in small quantities during the year, then the possibilities of manipulation are minimized.

Some of the project arent too sincere to put all proper informations in the whitepaper,some of these has a lot of supply that most of the people didnt know,so reading whitepaper wont have any effect if these people has most of the supply of their coin,they can control the price of their coin in no time,these people arent transparent most of the time.

Yes, they definitely can. The best way is if the economics and math behind the token is designed in a way that it stimulates natural growth with time. Provided that adoption and demand of the token increase.

The team can also manipulate the price by bying or selling its own tokens on exchanges. For example, Canya recently announced they will buyback a portion of their tokens.

Legit projects should care about price movement and early investors and guarantee a min low of the price on the exchanges.

Almost every ICO team have 5-25% of tokens reserved for them. If the tokens are not in escrow, they easily could use them to manipulate the market.

Another option they have is to hold the bounties, sell their tokens, release the bounties (leading to price drop) and then buy-back their tokens again like nothing happens.

Theoretically, a team could control the price of their coin through supply and demand.

Say a coin comes out at $5

Then, the team let's something leak that is bad news

Price drops down to $0.25

The team could then buy back their coin and create a more limited supply

Then the price would go up

Very easy in theory, but difficult to pull off in real life since the market is more than a two-point system...


 8) 8) 8)

This idea is not strange to any market watcher and trader, Project team of any asset control the price of their coin, token even shares! But the project in question are very sincere with their community from the start in been transparent about their module superandi!

Of course yes,especially when the team has the most of the coin supply just like what the centralized coin XRP is ,the founders and the develoeprs hold most of its supply that is why its price is manipulated,it cant rise too much because most of these people are slowly dumping these supplies.So you need to know how the team is doing with the supply that they have so your coin will be predictable.

It will depend on how many bitcoins the team have saved up for the purpose of buybacks and also how large the daily trading volume is.  If the volume is low then yes, it is very possible to keep the project from drowning but if the trading volume is very high, it will take much more funds to keep it above waters and that's not even a guarantee.  

yes but for a limit of time only like if you buy your own coin in high price but you need a lot of money by doing because think if you buy it in high price and if they buy your coin in low price of course it will drop even you buy it in high price,the best example of it is the nano or xrb coin in past year the price of that is only just a little but now because of their faucets the price of it go really high now and that's their tactics like good move to do even you spend a lot of time,money in your coin salute to the developer of xrb or nano now and they not buy it but only develop by so many xrb or nano now in their own faucets i think the developer of it is really rich by now

Yes team has a level of control on there coin price, base on the volume in circulation, compare to what they are holding as there stake, also implement ation of there roadmap can also help them to control the coin for growth.

Yes infact there are few coins who are doing that already,most of the coins has the most of the supply because they are the ones who created these coins and they can do everything they wanted to do,creating an altcoin  is surely a profitable way to get rich faster than the traditional investors that is why we are having new ICOs everday.

I don't think this is possible. How deep are going to be their pockets, how much money they think they are going to raise? Are they going to use all of them to correct the market? It looks like a bad business to me.

it can
they can raise and lower prices with big money and news updates for their coins
good news will result in price increases
bad news will result in lower prices
if good news is announced after bad news, then everyone will easily earn money

Of course a good example is the XRP coin which has the centralized banking structure from the banks,they can easily dump most of its supply so that they will make billions of dollars from these newbie investors who bought their coin,that is why you need to check the distribution of an coin you are investing to so you would know how these people will use most of its supply.

well Coinmetro exchange which is an upcoming exchange planned doing same thing with their exchange, they will buy their tokens back when the price is going down and put it back to sale when their scarcity. The deal is cool to me but I don't know how they will implement it, until it is test and prove working, i am not investing.

The supply - demand control is what they are proposing, but not through news manipulation. They don't want to make their currency drop in price, only make it appreciate. So they use profits from the trading portfolio or fund and buy on the main exchange, making price go up. Then they destroy the tokens. So it's not so hard as manipulating with bad news. The thing is if they can keep up the trading profits... for now they have (if their live portfolio doesn't lie) but I'll watch to see how it goes!

I found an image that explains it but it seems my account is too new. It's in this link:

https://medium.com/@OptiToken/unique-value-proposition-strategic-buy-pressure-and-strategic-scarcity-9da9f645e971




Well this is what Optitoken is proposing I think. The thing is they will be making price rise by buying from the profit generated by the portfolio trading, which is the underlying value. Yeah, I'm still doubting. I'm on the telegram channel now to see how they are handling stuff.




Thanks for the other example, I'll check to see how it's going for them... I agree with that last part. I already bought an ICO that just tanked on exchange... this seems to solve it by creating stable prices through a sort of distribution of value from portfolio to holders. Still have to trust them though.




Well in this case the buybacks will come from trading profits of the portfolio, so they should be regular and in theory also work in bear markets like this one, as the live portfolio shows profits... which for me is the most attractive cause I can't trade (bull or bear lol) and the coin will hold when others are down...

Many projects/teams have a buyback system in place to buy their tokens from the exchanges if the price gets too low. I have seen a few massive projects that just wrapped up their ICOs discussing their plans to possibly do this as well. Check this thread for a little info about the buyback programs after ICO https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2025917.0

Yeah but putting it back to sale just adds sell pressure again eventually down the road thus ruining the value added from the buying to begin with

Everything is possible in my opinion. They can create their own hype to pump the prices of their own coin so that everyone takes an interest and invest too because let's be honest that not all do their own research regarding the project and just invests without knowing about the background. After the pump there will be eventually a dump so its not really a good technique to apply on a certain project. Might as well think of a good marketing plan to keep the coin's price stable.

Well, if done correctly the dump shouldn't be too hard. They could even save some to create sell walls or something (I just asked on the dev) Plus the fact that destroying the bought tokens could make holders hold more? Not sure on that one. Would def like to see this project make the market so we can see how it works haha :D

Just one last thing: can anyone with a solid grasp of economics explain if there is a limit for this buying back and destroying tokens? How would it work long term? Would people not want to sell? It's a bit mind boggling for me.

I think that can not happen, the team can only help by promoting their coin and working with a good exchange to make their coin increase in price, but to determine the price of the coin is only buyer and coin holder (investor), because the buyer will set the price buy them and if the coin holders sell them at the coin's price that the buyer wants, it is from that matter that determines whether the coin price increases or decreases (if many want to buy the coin most likely to increase the price will be enormous).

I guess its rather common practice today after huge success of Binance tokens with similar model - use part of profit to buyback your tokens. Many other projects started to do the same.

While a team can do this, they certainly shouldn't for a myriad of reasons. One being it is unethical and if anybody catches them, the project will lose a lot of confidence. Two and just as important is if you have a good project you shouldn't need to worry about manipulating the price. Only weaker coins or tokens that are about that P n D life will manipulate (at least this how I view it).

I understand your point, but this isn't a PnD, its part of the value of the coin. As the underlying portfolio trades and makes profits they will be distributed to holders, with the extra twist of the token burns. So it can create semi stable value but also a possibility for interesting gains.

So after watching for some weeks and getting familiarized with the CEO (he is a very down to earth guy, very responsive, check Telegram) I decided to invest! Things are gaining traction too: http://bitcoinist.com/3-icos-huge-potential-2018/

To do this, you need to maintain the demand for your token on the market, but it needs a large amount of tokens and this is a risky game.

I think that this is very likely, because now a lot of similar situations happen with many projects, probably this is really true, because it seems to me that now, if you have a normal project that works very well you can do anything.

control their own coin prices, maybe not. but to manipulate the price is possible, more or less it is only temporary which means they do to attract the attention of investors. but it can be a double-edged sword. can you imagine if they do that thing, but no investors who go in or buy their coins

If the team's cryptocurrency is listed on a small trading volume exchange like cryptopia or similar ones, sure they can control their prices.  The team wouldn't need that many bitcoins to manipulate prices. 

Oh, they say beautifully that they will buy out their tokens and then burn them. However, there are many pitfalls.
1. If the company doesn't make a profit. They will not have the means to buy their tokens.
2. They leave a very large percentage of tokens from developers. This makes it possible to manipulate the price, as we have seen many times with other projects.
3. The market of cryptocurrency is not submitting to any laws. They can burn 5% of their tokens, but the price will still go down.

I'm certainly not a Pro but I know that any coin can artificially inflate without any problems . they create an artificial demand for the coin and all its value begins to grow .  documents by the way is not a problem now so doing that is not prikopat

Yes, the ICO team has the ability to control the price of its released token. They can throw to the market the tokens they have at their disposal and thereby lower their costs, as well as periodically burn some of their tokens, thereby reducing the offer for sale and therefore the price of tokens will increase.

This could be in real scenario. We can really play what we really want if we are having enough tokens to support in our manipulation for possible growth. But to make this possible we will considered first investors well to eagerly invest the tokens that we are promoting and developing to certainty get increased.

They surely can if they tried to but at the end of the day, the price of the coin going up still depends on the demand from investors and without that there is no way that a project will do well. At the beginning it is the team that places a price on their coin but as time goes on, it is the demand from people that will determine what the price and the value of the coin will be for the long run.

Thats possible to control the price of a coin. If the team is reach and have enough power to maintain and pump their own currency. If a numbers of dumpers in the market so they do a numbers of buy. They not allow the price go deeply because of weak hands. Then make a hype news such listing on a top exchange.

I know one coin development team who ended up with an unusually high percentage of the coins due to a low ICO turnout so decided to burn them - and this is ok because they were transparent about it.  One of the great things about blockchain tech is increasing transparency!  So clearly they can and should, nothing wrong with doing things in the interest of the coin, but only openly and with full explanation.