Bitcoin Forum

https://i.imgur.com/6nCNKEl.png

The little fellow in charge of this type of thing has now written to everyone with relish about how he gaily took a dump all over the exchanges.

My mind has been stretched to infinity by this.

https://www.cryptoninjas.net/2017/06/08/cumberland-mining-offers-convert-bitcoin-held-mt-gox-cash/

Back in the day Cumberland Mining, one of the biggest OTC traders, offered to sell the entire amount.

Jesse Thingy the CEO of Kraken and involved as a trustee in the process told the guy he should auction it and was ignored.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/82unmb/why_is_the_mt_gox_guy_selling_on_exchanges/dvd465i/

I can't believe the person in charge of this would be so stupid when OTC buyers would be biting his arm off.

What do you think is up?

This pic was very revealing to me:

https://cdn.pbrd.co/images/HaXpG8j.jpg

I can't believe this dumbass logged in to some exchange and sold an insane amount of bitcoin in batches instead of going OTC like he should. There must be some sort of insider trading going on. This guy has to be an agent hired to crash the bitcoin price because governments were getting scared at the bull run. If it wasn't for this, we would be at 30k by now.

I don't believe in coincidences when it comes to big money flows. Someone has made a lot of money out of this. Insider trading has happened im sure. This is insane.

And he have more than 100k coins to dump still.

The bears are probably loving this.

As stated elsewhere I think the current sales have fully covered the liabilities to the creditors as it's all still based on the 2014 price.

The next question is what happens to the rest of these? It looks possible that the rest will go back to shareholders of the Gox holding company which means, er, mainly Mark Karpeles.

If the court switches to civil rehabilitation it's distributed to claimants.

Either way the ultra dumps are over.

Unbelieveable that that prick will end up being rich by having destroyed many people's life back in the days.
Ruining a company, taking people's money, going for a while in jail and end up with hundreds of millions of dollars.
Wouldn't be surprised if he hires some bodyguards. Could imagine he will need them.

There aren't really many possibilities on why he went that route. It's either he has a vendetta against Bitcoin and did it out of spite, or he has more to gain in the long run by moving the market than selling a bit higher. My money is on the latter, but who knows?

At least it seems to be over now, for the most part. Crazy how one guy can have so much of an impact. It just makes you realize how long we have to go.

If he keeps dumping around 15k bitcoins each month, the price will tank around 10k for the entire year.

Bodyguards are meaningless if there is one party ready to finish him off, where they'll just take the bodyguards down with that fat fuck. It still gives me goosebumps if I think about how I just barely managed to avoid being a Gox victim as well. It was a simple reason that made me not choose for MtGox back in my initial days in 2013, and that was their premium over other exchanges. I went for Bitstamp, and till today I am feeling lucky that I did so. I can't even imagine how people must have felt, and still feel today with current developments in mind. Seriously, I can't understand how this fat fuck still manages to eat and drink with everything he has done. Worst thing of all, is that in certain videos, he still has that nasty grin on his face.

There was lots of tough talk when it went down. All of it was bilge and still is which does slightly surprise me as there must have been some substantial dodgy money, but slaughtering him wouldn't achieve much.

When I first showed proper interest in mid 2013 ish I dismissed Gox within five minutes of googling knowing nothing about cryptoland.

Previous known hack, far off unaccountable land, no regulation, passwords showing up in browser, strange man on beach ball.

I was flabbergasted such a clear shithole was the cornerstone of Bitcoin trading and went to Localbitcoins instead. People just seemed to accept it for what it was which I refused to do.

I do feel bad for anyone who lost out big time, but the flags were very large and very red for a long time before they followed through on their promise.

Latest statement by Jesse Powell:

For the record, Kraken was asked many months ago for advice on how to sell a large block of coins. Our answer was:

1. don't sell coins
2. If you have to, do it with an auction, which Kraken can facilitate
3. If you want to do it more privately, let Kraken's OTC desk broker it for you

We were explicit about not dumping a large amount of coins on the market. Unfortunately, it looks like the trustee made their own decision or was taking advice from elsewhere -- maybe whatever exchange they dumped those coins on. We had zero knowledge of these sales happening until it was announced at the recent creditors' meeting. Unfortunately, we have no visibility in to where, how or why the trustee sold those coins, nor whether any precautions were taken to prevent front running or self-dealing. Hopefully, the trustee will make it clear what their process was and put the questions to rest.

The trustee possibly didn't have the experience of selling large number of coins. If he had not trusted Kraken on their advise on how to liquidate, he could have asked any equity trader how block sales take place. By selling a few coins and crashing the market, the trustee has achieved nothing but driving down the value of the remaining coins in his possession. This is one whale which has made a big and unnecessary splash.

where does it explicitly say that the trustee dumped on exchanges? i didn't see that in the report.

the coindesk article and other speculation i've seen points to BTC movement on the blockchain that coincided with the bear market, but i haven't seen any blockchain analysis that shows coins were entering exchanges. are we sure he wasn't selling OTC?


then why is he talking about continuing to liquidate the assets? if the entity is legally solvent, what business do they have liquidating assets of the claimants?

That is the truth and they have finalized the valuation they owe to the owners of the coin when the hack happened when the price was really low and the rest are their profit,what a crack situation this is,all of the coins should be liquidated and must be distributed among the users who lost their coins rather than keeping the rest as their profit which is insane and the method in which they choose to liquidate the assets is another blunder.

Holy... Is this possible? I can't believe what I'm reading. That level of insanity is mindblowing.
Is there any way to stop him?

Meh, you think he is the only one capable of doing this? There are other people out there with similar amounts of bitcoin, I mean if he could destroy the market starting with only 2k, a few other whales could too and I'm sure many crashes happened that way.

The only good thing is that prices should go back as before
Between 2000 and 5000 per btc  ; Everyone should start selling
Otherwise you will have to sell them cheap (as) in the last

Indeed. But this geezer knows nothing about Bitcoin and only has a task to complete. Your average whale knows the market inside out, what it can take, what it can't, and will trade accordingly. This guy clearly hammered the sell button until it was time for sushi.

There's no one else with this number of coins dumb enough to do this.

It's an opportunity for those looking to keep buying Bitcoin, and that's how it should be seen, especially because of the fact that no one here can do anything about it. Either just hodl through, or buy yourself some coins every week.

At some point this clown show will stop because he will run out of supply, and when the market isn't subject to this level of supply feeding anymore, it will slowly go up again, and that's the most important thing for me.

And who knows, maybe he is getting financially compensated for unloading that many coins in such a poorly executed manner. It's plain stupidity, or financial incentive externally. Either way, it won't last endlessly.

Has everyone already forgotten about the infamous bear whale? He died at $300 so we could all prosper. :D

How quickly we forget the 2014-2015 bear market. Day after week after month of whales providing never-ending supply, until it finally culminated in the massive leveraged long unwinding of August 2015 (the $162 low).

I hate to say it, but sentiment now truly is like 2014. If we're entering a bear market, everyone seems to be in denial about it.

Gimme a blow by blow rundown of why this is 2014 redux. Where are the parallels? There's been a bubble of course. What else about the current scene convinces you we're in for years of grind again?

My feeling is that it's like June 2013. ::)

I didn't say this is a 2014 redux. As I've said (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3083262.msg31833782#msg31833782), the price fractals are more representative of mid-2012 or early 2013.

I was just commenting on the bullish sentiment. Very few people believe we can be entering a bear market (mostly permabears who never profit from BTC upside). Sentiment has been extremely hopeful and dismissive of bearish scenarios for the past few months. Up until yesterday, Crypto Twitter has been exuberant, even though the alt market has been dismal. And unfortunately, shorts have been closing into this drop, so there's not much to squeeze. Bulls are just hoping that knife catchers show up. Bears are in control.

I sure hope bulls make a stand off the $9,000 area because it will be technically meaningful. But I traded heavily the entire year of 2014 and I hate to say it, but recent sentiment is reminiscent.

This is possibly one of the dumbest ideas I have ever seen. Dumping coins in this big batches is also making him lose money. What was he thinking? (if its true). And yeah sadly we are truly in bear market now which will be very hard to recover.

Most of it it seems to be idle speculation. Having read the official document https://www.mtgox.com/img/pdf/20180307_report.pdf all it actually confirms is that they sold 35,841.00701BTC at an average price of $10,0026.92 between 27th September 2017 and 7th March 2018. My guess is that would have happened in a number of OTC deals staggered over that time period. If they had got around the 18k mark then yes you could conclude they dumped on the highs and started the sell-off but that doesn't really add up when the only got 10k.

No matter what he is doing the time will come when bitcoin will get to from this bearish stage some of this guy has put it.  I think we have more things to think about than what those fellow can do.  The bears are having the best days today because  there is a lot of FUD being created and we most understand that most of this type of act are be done by the greedy individual.

I believe this is a good theory, conspiring with large entities before selling BTC through exchanges in order. Could be the largest PUMP and DUMP ever.
But in the end its still a theory, we have no way of verifying that the amounts sold in red font are from mt. gox wallets.

If you read my post 2 above yours you'll see we have a very good way of verifying that those sales were NOT Mt. Gox coins. That would give a much larger average price than the 10k they actually got.

This was Karpeles plan all along, he knew he would go to jail shortly, he knew the settlement could only legally be done in fiat.

Anybody that thinks this is just lucky coincidence for him hasn't been around long enough and has never talked personally with this narcissistic criminal.

Excellent thread - love the info - not all confirmed but i guess it's pointing in the right direction.

No, the Trustee did no OTC deal, he sold on an (yet unknown) exchange. His own answer:

We sold them at the market price through the cryptocurrency exchange service provider from December 2017 through February 2018.
The difference between the sales figures for BTC and BCH was just the timing of suspending sales; therefore, we did not have any particular intention.

Until we know the exchange those things are not mutually exclusive. Bitfinex, for example, offers OTC services. For large transactions like this that would be a sensible way to proceed.

BTW. Can you give a link to the source of that quote?

Report of the creditors meeting on March 7th 2018, Q&A Session, answer 4
https://mtgox-creditors.com/

Doesn't this mean that the 'correction' was not real and is yet to come, maybe we're only seeing the 'real correction' now.....

The 'whales in charge' of the markets must have been caught off guard by this.

MtGox only sold 38k out of 202k Bitcoin, a lot more were dumped than that. I guess the sells triggered stop losses all the way down to $6k.

There wasn't any more useful information in there but thanks for the link.

I still can't see how they could have caused the decline in price though from looking at the prices in that time period and the average price they attained. If they had been selling the highs to trigger this thing then they should have got much more than 10K average.

The Trustee didn't sell the highs, the worst part being the sale of up to 18,000 BTC on the 5th February. But he depressed the market further.
If this was incompetence or malice (like insider trading), it's hard to tell, we have to wait for precise data and compare dumps on various exchanges.
To trigger a bearish channel you have to sell a lot at an inflection point, where the market is undecided about the direction.

Again where is this data coming from?

Also, a quick look at the chart shows that the market went up higher on 19th and 20th than it was on the 18th. The next down move didn't start until the 21st.

Actually $10k is a pretty decent average. Remember that bitcoin has only really been above $10k for one month, in December 2017. So the trustee did well to wait as long as he did (since 2014) and then cash out.

Oh yeah, I wasn't saying from that standpoint. I'm just pointing out if they caused the sell-off they would have to have sold the highs and probably got 15-18k range. Getting an average 10k in the time period they did tells me that's all a load of FUD.

Well they haven't sold it until recently, hence the significant drop and what's interesting is that this probably won't be the last dump that's going to happen so probably a stagnant 10k value is already a positive scenario. Bears are basically overpowering the bulls right now

If the liabilities to creditors can be repaid now (in fiat), why is the trustee saying he plans to liquidate more coins? Is there some legal reason that assets need to be liquidated to cash before the case enters civil rehabilitation (or the proceeds get transferred to Karpeles' companies)?


For what it's worth, he publicly stated (https://twitter.com/MagicalTux/status/971891904286568450) he advised the trustee against selling on the spot market. And that makes sense because you're right. The higher BTC goes, the better his situation. He's long known that the liabilities in bankruptcy would be calculated in fiat (same as any other country), hence his celebratory posts on Reddit when the 2017 bubble took off.

i think you're too early here even though i'm not in the $2000-4000 bear camp. everything takes 3-4 times longer now than in 2013. if you expect june 2013 to play out, it should be after a significant bull trap and another leg down---not to new lows, mind you---but yeah. the bull trap is necessary to establish the soul-crushing sentiment that we had at the june bottom.

in the short term, sentiment is crazy bearish (like june 2013) because we probably made a bottom and are now squeezing the late bears. but that's just short term local action. i think he was talking on a longer time scale.

Why? Any reasoning or just a gut read?

Emphasis of my comment was on entering a bear market, meaning time is important. If this is 2014, we might just be halfway into the bull trap to $1,000 in January 2014.

Anyway, let's compare:
https://i.imgur.com/Z6GAK05.jpg

In April 2013, we had a sharp initial leg down. Then we had a major bull trap near the 61.8% fib. Then we had a much longer, drawn out correction to a higher low. Here, we have a lengthy (2 month) initial leg down, a weak retracement just past the 38.2% fib, and literally we are less than one week into the second leg down.

What makes you think enough bulls have been squeezed to establish the dismal sentiment of June 2013? We need bottom sellers! I follow Crypto Twitter and this forum pretty closely, and bears were virtually nonexistent before this week (aside from the aforementioned permabears). And like I said, for any significant reversal in sentiment to occur, time needs to pass, relative to both the rally and the bull trap.

This, exactly:

After comparing the April - July 2013 (bottom was on the 6th July) corrections with the current one, I believe the market is only about 2 times slower than in 2013.
And in 2013 the April crash was excessive and messed up the Elliot waves, IMO there is no point to closely compare and draw misleading conclusions.
Back in June 2013 there were complaints on the forum that the Silk Road drug dealers were cashing out too much, these days that Kobayashi crashed the market. ;D
But yeah, we didn't have much despair yet, so maybe we'll have a final bottom if the triangle (wait for the market to build it) will break down.

What's your data based on? Our best frame of reference is the length of the 2016-2017 rally vs. all previous rallies in history. A quick glance suggests the difference is definitely larger than 2x. But even at 2x, the post-April 2013 correction took ~3 months. Just doesn't seem sufficient to shake out the current market.

For comparison (based on range break that resulted in new ATH):

• 2012: ~11 week rally, ~10 week correction, final bottom October 2012.
• Early 2013: ~14 week rally, ~13 week correction, final bottom July 2013.
• Late 2013: ~10 week rally, ~21 month correction, final bottom August 2015.
• 2016-2017: ~15 month rally (longer depending how you define trend), final bottom ??

Now, I'm not saying we need a 1-2 year correction. After all, markets rarely play out exactly as before. But price consistently closing below the weekly 20MA for the first time in 2.5 years should prompt us to consider that we entered the corrective phase of a very long rally.

I think Masterluc and Tim West are both sensible to expect a long term sideways consolidation.


It's always this way. Did you see Masterluc's latest comments comparing the trustee to Pirateat40? ;D

I believe this dump has come to an end and the reality is that this has put big amount of bitcoin into the hands of some people. Bitcoin sale off  has help new investors coming into the market and that will kick the greed investors out of the whole game. People like gox should have not been allow to hold any bitcoin from the beginning because this action has affected cryptocurrencies and the holder in the most gravious ways.

Well, we fell from $9485 to $8689... I just hope this guy isn't still dumping the MtGox coins in an exchange. Kraken shouldn't even allow him to keep doing this. The guy was told to go OTC and he ignored the advice as I've read on the pdf linked by gentlemend. If this doesn't prove that the guy is an amateur or a governmental agent attacking bitcoin... then I don't know what will.

And the greatest irony of this is that the creditors are losing more money than if they didn't get paid their money back, mostly because most people involved in MtGox are holding Bitcoin and their investment went down big time because of the dumps. I wonder if he could get a class action lawsuit for this bullshit.

is this the reason why we seeing bitcoin price up and down between $8k-$11k?
did they just do it in the last couple months, since early february?
or are they also responsible for the price dip from the $19k level in december?
which address he holds all 166k BTC, can someone tell me or direct me to another thread?

no, the last time the trustee moved coins was february 5th.


between december and february.


it's really impossible to know how much of an effect these sales had. i wouldn't say they are "responsible" for the dip. maybe they added to it.


an incomplete list of remaining cold storage is listed here: https://www.reddit.com/r/mtgoxinsolvency/comments/82m0dl/mtgox_trustee_has_sold_some_btc_and_bch/dvd2vre/

ITT the transaction IDs for the sold BTC are also listed.

Yes every drop in bitcoin price must be due to a government conspiracy.

Not every drop, but this one is obvious, just look at the graphs and look at the amount of coins sold, the sales order coincide with the drops perfectly, it's a match:

https://fsmedia.imgix.net/be/b3/88/38/3a42/46b2/98a9/97c8c7067b39/dips-mapped-to-kobayashi-transfers.png?dpr=2&auto=format%2Ccompress&w=700

These sharp drops are too much of a coincidence to be casual, when they happened the same day that the big sales of the coins happened. Remember that Bitcoin is still young and a lot of people holding it are panic selling idiots. So all it takes is some big whale to start a domino effect and people do the rest.

thanks for responding to my questions and for the reddit link
so if they did sell off the bitcoin between dec-feb then they contributed to the last biq price dip or crash
I said crash because 50% drop in value is a quite big number in trading world, not the worst but still
I'm going to check those addresses when there's sudden drop in price 8) see if there is any relations

What would one expect from an asshole that ended up getting a lot of users to lose their fund? People with the likelihood of always doing shady things will never stop and since all the avenues to not dump the in exchanges fell on deaf ears, it obviously shows how stupid he is. The funniest part is the inexperience management of the dumps, who does that? Then he gave the crap of making efforts to sell at high prices, seriously my dead grandpa have sense than this guy even in his grave.

Dumbass indeed. It is really insane and appalling hearing things like this and if this guy was not really stupid, he would have agreed to the auctioning rather than going to the exchanges to offload and affect the value drastically. I just have the feelings there is more to this than what the eye can see and some shady stuffs that apparently planned. Like they always say, once a thief, forever a thief.

Has anyone checked the timing of the dumps against futures volumes? It seems more than co-incidental to me that they started right around the time that BTC futures markets became available on CME. If you want to ask "why would he dump like this?" then maybe "because he's directly or indirectly simultaneously shorting the futures" is the answer.

Bitcoiners are hard to please. They're always saying how happy they are that the price drops and they are able to obtain more cheap coins. Now, when the mtgox trustee just wants to apologize in behalf of mtgox, by offering a lot of cheap coins... then, bitcoiners again not happy.

Yeah... well, I would have liked to know in advance about the Trustee's "apologies". His shorting buddies surely knew.

Do we need to check?

Its assumed by default.

I heard that Jessy from Kraken already advised this crazy and stupid Mt. Gox trustee not to sell it on the exchange. Instead do in auction and he will facilitate it.
But this stupid Gox trustee seems have another stupid guy to listened to.

I am sure the bears are really smiling and waiting for what the outcome is going to be like, but his actions totally affects the general market perception and if he is in his right sense, I wonder why that would be done in the first place and then coming to give us the cock and bull story of trying to sell at a high price with some bullshit guy saying the market was not strong and if it was, it would not be affected. I feel like sniping someone right now.

Yeah, and I really agree with you. It totally shows we have a long way to go, and I imagine what would happen if all the whales stupidly dumps just as he did. Well, shit happens, but in the real sense, he should not have done that or he should have possibly used his sense to sell over the counter like he was told rather than letting it affect the global market price. The market is still young and we cannot expect traders not to react to drops in prices. Now I can explain why my TA and FA just seem not to be working for a while now. This guy is really a punk ass.