Bitcoin Forum

So KNC's "All current paid orders will be shipped no later than October 15th" commitment has been and gone.

No apology, no updates, nothing. It's incredibly disrespectful and unacceptable treatment of customers, as far as I'm concerned. We KNC customers are the angel investors who created and paid for KNC to exist as a company. And this is how KNC pay us back for our money, loyalty and trust.

I guesstimate about half their orders have shipped by 15th. That means it could easily take exactly the same amount of time - another 15 days - to ship the rest of their units, royally screwing their customers who they pledged would be hashing no later than October 15th.

Here is what a 550GH/s (sic) jupiter would earn you at current difficulty. In other words, let's see how much bitcoin I/we KNC customers, who were lied to about shipping dates, are losing:

Losses:
15th October +3 hrs: 0.18BTC (~26.24 USD)
15th October +12 hrs: 0.73BTC (~104.68 USD)
15th October +14 hrs: 0.85BTC (~122.12 USD)
-
Woo! Massive difficulty change - we are losing less per day now, right? Wahey!
16th October (post diff change) +5 hrs: 0.22BTC (~31.76 USD)
16th October +10 hrs: 0.43BTC (~63.52 USD)
-
17th October +12 hrs: 0.52BTC (~76.23 USD)
17th October +24 hrs: 1.03BTC (~152.45 USD)
-
18th October +12 hrs: 0.52BTC (~76.23 USD)
18th October +24 hrs: 1.03BTC (~152.45 USD)
-
19th October +12 hrs: 0.52BTC (~76.23 USD)
19th October +24 hrs: 1.03BTC (~152.45 USD)
-
20th October +12 hrs: 0.52BTC (~76.23 USD)
20th October +24 hrs: 1.03BTC (~152.45 USD)
-
21st October +12 hrs: 0.52BTC (~76.23 USD)
21st October +24 hrs: 1.03BTC (~152.45 USD)
-
22nd October +12 hrs: 0.52BTC (~76.23 USD)
22nd October +24 hrs: 1.03BTC (~152.45 USD)
-
23rd October +12 hrs: 0.52BTC (~76.23 USD)
23rd October +24 hrs: 1.03BTC (~152.45 USD)
-
24th October +12 hrs: 0.52BTC (~76.23 USD)
24th October +24 hrs: 1.03BTC (~152.45 USD)
-
25th October +12 hrs: 0.52BTC (~76.23 USD)

Overall: 10BTC (~1481.52 USD)

What no widget BTC lost ticker? Make one so we can apply it to every company that has failed to deliver on time and we can add them all together and get a BTC lost due to supply chain. I am guessing MILLIONS have been lost.

Not a bad idea actually!

And here comes a whopper of a 40% difficulty increase. Now is a very bad time to be late!

You can't count chickens that haven't hatched, right?
I'm sure KNC is on the right track! I have an order 25XX, 2 days before I get it. UPS shows last location @ Germany

Not to excuse KnC, but imagine trying to calculate the BTC "lost" due to Avalon's late shipping, or :ahem: BFL's...

+1

But alas this is what I like about this forum.  Cheeky.

Don't forget about all the BTC that avalon/bfl earned in mining from "CUSTOMERS MINERS"... due to the so called "STRESS TEST"

 Man, it's almost not worth it to be a small-time miner any more. Good lord...

 I thought I would be happy with having 1TH/s by end of October, but with these difficulty increases ... <Insert "Nope Badger" Meme>

 Will probably call it quits by January at this rate  :-\ Not worth the upgrade cycle any more, IMO.

This bubble will burst and I wonder what sort of "crash" will follow?

You can say that again!

You can say that again!

KNC is on track for you. Remember October delivery orders go to about 7500. Many of us are seeing nothing for a long.

And still no updates to their customers on 16th October about missing their own "set in stone" 15th deadline. They are undoing the good work they did up to September. Once they started the lies - when they announced they were refusing refunds (when they originally said refunds would be available right up until your units shipped) - it's all been downhill since. Nothing but lies and contempt for their customers, treating us like consumer schmucks with x-box pre-orders, rather than businesses with multi-thousand dollar orders.

Easy.. mining hardware prices will crash. Nothing is going to stop difficulty from exploding, all these asics will be produced and will join the network one way or the other. The only variable is how much people will pay for them.

that's when I come in and buy up your hashpower for pennies on the "jacksons"  Looking to spend 500 dollars for 100 TH by December 2014

knc like avalons

batch 1 profitable (1-2 day orders)

batch 2 maybe (after 15.10)

batch 3 total loss (nov)

The funny part about this is that a lot of people ended up making MORE BTC by BFL's late shipping.  If BFL had shipped on time and at the quantities stated last October, difficulty would have spiked faster than it has lately and you'd have had a year of little to no earnings compared to what you did get.  I calculated that an FPGA Single mining from Oct 1 to the date the first actual single shipped and then that single mining until today would have made about 12% more BTC compared to a rough guess at BFL's orderbook and a 60Gh single delivered Oct 1 would have made to date.

Most people with BFL orders would have preferred not to have made any money a year ago, rather than wait a year to discover that unfortunate truth.

What that BFL is a scam?

Well, sort of. BFL, along with every other ASIC manufacturer has sold a volume of equipment that cannot recoup costs given the fixed block reward amount at any realistic BTC exchange rate. I would have preferred to have known that last year, rather than this year, as a BFL customer.

How to calculate compensation?

Honest question considering the following:
*another unknown competitor appears ex. on Oct. 1st with cheap devices on stock and shipped on day of order.
*btc crashes (so btc compensation would have a psychological value only)
*error in chip design causing insolvency of KnCMiner
*they would have shipped devices in time but with 400GH/s and power consumption of 1.6W per GH/s (as specified & in time, so no compensation => but still worse than what we get now)
*sell your order through ebay and you make you profit for sure
*losses are based on forecast of hw competitors are going to ship I assume, what's about they are late or fail ?

btw:
I guess Hashfast starts shipping late due to no chip until now (shipping is supposed to start Oct.20th),
and cointerra starts shipping very late since their tape-out was announced for first week of Oct. and there are no infos so far about current state of progress.


Additionally, as you know pressure causes counterpressure.
I'm not quite sure how smart it is to put this pressure on them, especially NOW while they are still facing other stuff more important to handle.
How about waiting for last unit being shipped and give them a change to make us happy on their own ?

Enforced compensation is worse for sure, than one given with the good intention of fixing cracks in customer relationships, no?
I could imagine that they find somehow a way to make it a win-win situation for everyone as they would profit from it as well.
As you know they are aware things did not work out and a lot of customers are currently not happy with them.

Image it is your company and you have to deal with missed deadlines, calls for compensation, issues with production, angry customers and other stuff at the same time....things may turn out like they did...



------

Thanks dude, now I have to clean up the coffee on my table&floor which I had in my mouth when reading this

This is very unfortunate for KNC customers, but at the same time this is good news to Avalon, Asicminer, BitFury, etc. Never have all the eggs in one bucket.

This really sucks, I would try my luck to ask for refund. The next difficulty increase is even more scary then the 40% increase..

Compare to say, Bitfury. When Dave first ran into a delay he notified his customers *before* the deadline. This alone went a long way to keeping his customers happy. KnC on the other hand keeps missing deadlines and not communicating. Which is a lot more like BFL and Avalon do business. Not good company to be with. As such I don't trust KnC. They're on the path to becoming the next BFL.

I would not put my head in the sand, that's not my style. I'd deal with it, not be rude to my customers and refer them to the well hidden T&C's (no link on the front page of there website to T&C's, very nice). I would not have a shill spreading his lies all over a forum, playing the best confidence trickster game I've seen played in years.

They chose their own path - to keep everyone in the dark for weeks. To hide, to avoid, to keep us in the dark, to shield their production news, to shield any difficulty they were having, to treat customers like schmucks who do not deserve to be informed.

They now they have to deal with how poor that makes them look.

P.S. I'm deleting all KNC shills/fanboi and posts from everyone on my ignore list.

This is latest news from KFC:
https://www.kncminer.com/news/news-50

I'll be posting on this later.

Yes - Bitfury is clearly the best of the bunch.  However, didn't Dave also set up more miners for the 100 TH mine business that caused a delay to early buyers?  Looking at the hashrate and Arctic fox's list they are shipping a TON of product.

I was a KnC fan, supporter & very positive about their progress over the last three months and for this very skeptical with your comments Avenger - but customer service lied in my ear today about my 12.000$ order status of my hosted unit. I could not believe it. But it is reality. This is the line where fun & optimism stops.

Words are wind, only in actions can you find the truth at the heart of everything

I consider a spoken word as an action

Well with all these companies and all their "promises" the value of someone's word in this community just isn't worth what it is.

You've been vicious, nasty and attacking me in other threads. I moderate this thread and as you see above, people on my ignore list etc are being deleted.

If anyone has a deleted post, this is why. You can be a buttmuncher anywhere else you want, but anything you post is not welcome here. Ciao

good luck keeping it stable at 1TH/s for every second of every month

guess what:


bfl emailed today that they shipped my 60Gh killer mining monster i had ordered in march and tried so refund in mai. an expensive radiator with built in mining gimmick.

Man, there are nothing but sad stories associated with bitcoin hardware.

I guess the best thing to do is to add a few LED strips and sell it on ebay as a christmas tree?   :D

I'd refuse it, if you paid with a credit card. Doesn't sound like you did though.

http://bitbet.us/bet/520/bitfury-eu-august-orders-will-ship-before-1st/

Their October orders shipped the first week of October. Some other orders shipped before the announced time.

Also:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=297297.0

A nice, peaceful and informative thread about KnC?

Man, I never thought I'd like censorship this much

Crash where?

At what point does it make any sense to sell for less than it costs to make the shit?

I would suggest the "crash" or "implosion" might be on the fabrication end and without any significant rise in the BTC price a wall has developed. A 90% difficulty rise per month can not be sustained indefinitely and since way overshooting the mark on hash available the mining community will be getting a ring side seat not to fire sales but rather the quick immediate deaths of many of these fabricators.

that's why they use other people's money

 Might I ask what your point is, other than stating the obvious ?

 "Good luck with keeping it stable at (arbitrary hash-rate) for every second of every month"

you dense?  and I dont care if YOU dont understand my point.. let the public decide

 Then I guess you won't care if I add you to my ignore list...

 Toodaloo !

Ok, ok, guys. I understand the frustration here... However. Think of the positive sides? Like other pointed out, KnC delayed only for few days vs months or even a year... Plus they originally promised 300Gigahash rig, didn't they? Here is your compensation... I mean come on, they have created these asics from NOTHING in 4 months. Then unlike BFL, they managed to SPEED them UP not to drop the hashrate. I understand the anxiety, but think positive. Or at least try

This would also be true if BFL had never existed. The only difference being that a few shills and reporters would not have received boxes on time / early, and most of the rest of the world would have saved a fortune on hardware that would never make positive ROI by the time they received it (plus people with mining hardware would have made even *more* BTC during that year). 

scotjam

this is really becoming equivalent to Godwin's law on this forum.

If they didn't you wouldn't get any miners and from this point in I doubt highly they will be able to get money, from anywhere, to chase mining hardware that can't be sold. If you are only centered on mining hardware you are dead in the water. There is plenty of coin to be had in other 'hardware' and services that bootstrap the bitcoin economy. But please don't tell BFL that or they will be building "Trezor's" at 50% less in twice the time and kill off that market as well.

My miner shipped on time