Bitcoin Forum

i was curious to know if the bitcoin community looks down on the "rats" that helped bring Silk road down or do they praise them? or have no opinion? I think its better for bitcoin that silk road is no longer around. Personally, I think the government wasted a lot of money to find DPR and who knows how much this is going to cost us by the time the trial is over, but besides that, what do you think about the Agents and the other people that helped bring it down?

I havent heard one way or another here on bitcointalk, I was wondering what the consensus is.. Are they heros or rats? I personally think that while I think what we do with our own bodies should be our own decision (whole other topic). I think that Silk road was good at the beginning but the last year or so has been a black eye..  I really wish they would end the war on drugs, its an winless battle, but this is about bitcoin. Good or bad for bitcoin? and do you feel any ill will towards those that helped bring it down? Or do you consider the non government agents that helped in the taking down of SR heros or rats?

Just curious.....

In my opinion, it was a good thing. If we allow sites like SR to continue, it would bring negative attention to Bitcoin from users, and governments. BTC could be banned and made illegal, if the primary use is for illegal purposes. Also, new users would be afraid, because they would not know how legal it is to use BTC.

Now that SR is gone, people can see that there are legal uses for BTC, such as sending money to other people, anywhere in the world.

I don't necessarily think sites like 'silkroad' are bad, it's a bit like trying to blame facebook for the assholes that are on it trying to pick on small children or kidnap them, in the end it's all down to the users how they use a tool and political groups as we now know from their excessive hysteria always have a habit of blaming whatever tool or object a person has used in a crime rather than the person committing the crime itself. For all we know there could have been plenty of people buying those drugs who have nothing to do with crime so you can't really make that judgement.

As for people telling the government? Not everyone has the resources or knowledge of Snowden and Assange so they probably had no choice.

They wouldn't cooperate unless they were pressured to. That's how these cases work. They try and get the little fish to lead them to the big ones.

I love bitcoin. For the same reasons, I love the silk road.

It's about freedom of exchange.

So for me, those that helped bring silk road down are simply "The Enemy."

Is there some information that this question is based on? I haven't heard about people helping to bring down Silk Road. Who helped?

Anyway, my position is that the destruction of Silk Road is good for Bitcoin, but it is bad for humanity.

No opinions, No comments.

You must realize that sending money to other people in the world is generally highly regulated activity in many if not most countries.  So how would your opinion change if bitcoin was outlawed or rules were instituted that required you to submit your ID with a list of all your addresses or perhaps only qualified financial advisors were allowed to place qualified investors into bitcoin investments?  And if such a thing occurred would you comply?

I was wondering when someone would post this question.  I was going to post a "fund" for an individual that got caught up in the SR thing (its not Nod, the guy in washington, either). A basic fund for those that need help in defending themselves against the government.. You know the guy in Washington Nod? the number one seller on SR? He was busted but is working out a deal, probably to get his suppliers, but people like him (and others) that need financial support.

The govt. comes in and takes all belongings, unless you can hide them. So, while this Nod guy made a lot of money, I would bet he cant access any of it and it will  be seized, but im using him as an example really.

If a fund were set up to help those that are going to testify against DPR, would people donate?  I guess ill never find out unless I really set up an address and site to help some people that were strong armed to help the government and dont have a lot of money to fight them (govt.)

In my opinion, doesn't matter if they were strong armed to help or volunteered, they are heroes. They don't HAVE to help.

Snitches get stitches  ;D

It was a positive step for the bitcoin community, but of course they are rats.

Maybe, I should add that. "positive move for bitcoin, but I still look down upon them for being snitches" but, you cant have it both ways.. I think that they are either done something bad in your eyes, or done a  positive thing.

It was totally positive for the bitcoin community to get rid of SR. Its now obvious that bitcoin is being used for more good than bad.. I read one quote from a 3 letter agency and he thought when they brought DPR down that the bitcoin would sink next to nothing and would just go away.. Boy, was he wrong.. Thats the majority of opinion of any govt persons or agency...

They will all get their karma.  You always have a choice.

Im a believer in Karma.. But, what if Karma decided that a person had the chance to bring down SR but didn't, would karma punish them? How do we know what values Karma believes in? Maybe Karma thinks SR was a very bad idea or it was the greatest idea.. So, it could go either way, lol...

Look, the very reason drugs are so profitable are because .gov has made them illegal.  

Think of it this way: Al Capone and the other gangsters of the 1930's LOVED prohibition when alcohol was made illegal in the USA.  Such lowlifes made great money because of it.

These days old Al would lobby congress to keep prohibition going so he could continue to rake in money selling booze and paying off police, banks, and government office holders.  Why?  Because these laws knocked out the competition and kept prices high for the illegal stuff.  Excellent for Business!

Just like the current drug trade now, paying off police, banks, and government office holders to knock out the competition.

That is the beauty of knowing your history: only the names change, the methods do not.

By cracking down on sites like Silk Road they open the way for still more sites to open up and profit from the illegal drug trade!  While making it very profitable.

.Gov cannot win the drug war - unless their agenda is not to win, which is a whole other issue.

Look at the US War on Drugs.  Laughable how badly they have failed.  Best to legalize it like they did booze.  At least then they could control the trade somewhat as well as empty our prisons, most of whose inmates are in there due to drug laws.

The real terrorists and public enemies are the banksters and politicians who got us into the mess, not some guy doing cocaine on the street (the profits from which are on record to have been laundered in the big mega banks like JP Morgan Chase whose officers are "too big to jail").

In terms of what sr accomplished, it removed a large amount of violence from the black market while supporting a real free market.  I think people will slowly realize what side of this (the gov or the people) are in the 'wrongdoing'.  Nothing is right or wrong, good or bad, unless you make it.  It can be hard to forgive yourself, especially if you make it.  Even if they do not physically get karma for it, with time, a shift in consciousness will come along with empathy for the lives you've affected around you.

You always feel the impact of your actions, it's just a matter of catching up to you in life or death.

I agree, I think most drugs should be made legal. But, look what would happen to our government funding.. There would be tens of thousands of jobs lost.. Its all about money and greed. The government isnt banning weed because its bad for us, they are banning it because they get money to try to get the bad guys.. If they made most drugs legal and then used the money in drug education and treatment.. thats what should happen. but NEVER will, not in our lifetimes..

This whole thing is about 2 things. 1. Was it good for bitcoin that SR was taken down and 2. should the people (citizens)  that helped bring down SR be looked down upon for helping? I dont think the people helping had too much of a choice, i mean, what would you do? face 20 years to not to cooperate or face 2 years for helping?  It will be interesting to see how DPR does in court. Im pretty sure he has info that he could give up to help him out, so it will be interesting to see if he does that.

Taking down Silk Road impacts the drug trade about as much as taking down one cocaine dealer on a street corner.  And does about as much good.

However, it has helped bring Bitcoin into the spotlight.  Which is exactly what we want.

Also, into the hearts and minds of the next flurry of Silk Road copycats.  Its like a hydra.  Cut off one head and three heads grow back.

War on Drugs = More Drugs.  You'd think the powers that be would have figured that out by now - I have and I am no rocket scientist.

The real way to fight drug useage is to make them legal like tobacco and alcohol (both of which ARE drugs).  Then sell them cheaper than the drug dealers can while educating the public that doing drugs is a massive waste of your life and your money.  That's about the best that can be done, rely on individual responsibility for themselves.

We have to hold on to what bitcoin stands for: freedom.
And sites like SR are nothing but a form of freedom.
We can't just deny that. We can't just say we want freedom but we don't want sites like that.
People who want to use it will use it and people who don't won't.
That is all what freedom is about.

Don't deny freedom!

Don't know if you've got kids or not. I have, and in your scenario the thought that when they are older they could pop out to a corner shop, buy some bread, milk and a big bag of heroin, fills me with unimaginable terror.

they are rats. the lowest scum there is. people will die in prison because of these snitch f**ks. they deserve every horrible thing coming to them.

and look at this http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=arrests_of_silk_road_users --> just the start of people going down. this is so messed up.

STOP SNITCHIN!

I don't blame people at all who might have been pressured into giving information by FBI. I'd have done the same.

However, I get the sense that people giving info was not actually a major contributing factor to the crackdown and subsequent arrests. Seems more like people making basic errors that exposed them- like not encrypting messages, or handwriting labels on packages instead of typing them (that was a contributing factor to Nod's arrest). People got too comfortable, thinking using Tor and an anonymous currency was enough to keep them hidden. Even DPR. I think that's more to blame than anything.

They can do that NOW, from the dealer hanging outside the corner shop. Only now, they risk getting killed before they can even take the heroin.

SilkRoad creator brought it down by the mistakes he did. Including lol idea with the hitmans. As someone said, if you get FBI at your door only option is to comply.

I don't know about that, probably won't work, everybody on a radius of 100 km will know there is a white guy living on that mountain..

Read the Maryland indictment (https://ia601904.us.archive.org/1/items/gov.uscourts.mdd.238311/gov.uscourts.mdd.238311.4.0.pdf).

The first person DPR allegedly took out a hit on was SR-affiliated and got busted, and apparently turned informant.  When DPR supposedly took out a hit on him, the guy he hired to do it turned out to be a fed.

The second was the FriendlyChemist guy, who supposedly tried to extort money from DPR.  DPR also communicated with someone (perhaps the same someone) purporting to be "redandwhite," one of FC's suppliers, to whom FC supposedly owed money.  Since it's not clear how these guys ended up being referenced in the criminal complaint, it is entirely possible one of them was also a federal informant, and/or both of them were the same person.  Again supposedly, the feds found this through monitoring the private messages at SR.

(If it turns out both of these guys, the Maryland indictment guy and FC/raw, were informants, DPR might have a defense on the murder solicitations, basically that there would have been no violent crime if it weren't for the feds manufacturing one--i.e. like the John DeLorean case.  He'll have a tougher time arguing that wrt the drug charges, though.)

Why terror?  Presumably you are ok with them buying fat, sugar, nicotine, alcohol, caffeine, and various pain killers but you draw the line at heroin?  It used to be sold at local drug stores alongside cocaine and civilized society seemed to survive fine.

Are you really terrified that your kids are going to start shooting up? Be realistic.

Who should actually be filled with unimaginable terror as the drug war continues: people who live anywhere near, or in what could possibly be mistaken for, a drug dealer/user's home.

Gotta love drug search warrants being "mistakenly" executed at the homes of law-abiding gun/dog owners, who then proceed to become "collateral damage".

The people who helped are rats.

The agents themselves are thieves and thugs.

They both aggressed against people who had victimized no one.

If you have concern your kids may be dabbling in heroin, you should probably talk to them about it.

I'm sure they could get their hands on synthetic heroin if they tried anyways.

Why? I mean yeah currently heroin is currently seen as an extremely dangerous drug. But really that's just it's street form. When dealers "cut" heroin they cut it with agents that can cause diseases and such, but if it were legalized and regulated they would be getting "clean" heroin which is much safer then even morphine which is used around the world in hospitals today. Even in the UK they prescribe Diamorphine which is heroin without the brand name.

So yeah I get that it would be scary but really the only "danger" is becoming addicted and since it would be available at any corner shop it would be much easier to get.

Just saying... your worries are misguided.