Bitcoin Forum

As you can see from the sell order:

http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/2013/10/18/litecoin-seems-plummeting/

Litceoin owners has a reason to be a bit scared. More than 127 873 Litecoins has been submitted for sale for 0.0132 BTC per LTC which has a total value of 1 687 Bitcoins. Litecoin could be facing a massiv downtrend in the coming days, not just because of the sell order but also because of Bitcoin’s big increase in value over USD pushing alt-coins down.

Litecoin owners that actually believe in Litecoin probably still hold most of their coins and aren't selling. There are projects underway and the dev team seems to be working well.

Speculators will make & lose money as has always been the way.

Hoping you are right, I am one of them that have been holding litecoin..

and both will stay here. dont worry. up and down. bitcoin went from 30 dollars to 2 dollars some years ago  :o

Well for what its worth , i went ahead and invested into 100 ltc, just like i did back 2 years ago when i solo mined 100 btc :) and held it for 2 years. So lets see what the next 2 years has in store :)

That said, the ltc i mining now is getting converted into btc.

this is why i've been paying close attention to the alts.

If you look at the alltime graph chart of BTC/LTC you will see that the LTC pattern is basically repeating the BTC pattern of the 2011 crash. This is also significant because LTC, like BTC in 2011, can't really buy you anything.

I think that LTC will continue to fall until it gets to at least .008BTC which are the highs prior to the LTC bubble.  Then it might stabilize.

I think there is room for a 2nd alt currency, but LTC needs BTC to continue its growth. At some point LTC will have another chance to make a claim for being the "silver" altcoin. But they have so much work to do.

If there is room for a 2nd alt currency (which I doubt there is), then it'll actually have to do something dramatically different than BTC. Altcoins thus far, even the popular ones, do very little than change a few settings in the bitcoin protocol.  LTC provides NO (zero, zilch, natta) benefit over using BTC besides giving emo-sad miners a chance to scam a few chumps into buying it from them.

I disagree. That's like saying that there is no need for silver because of gold. There is NEVER a sure 100% investment. Silver is a hedge against the failure of gold, which could, in different peoples minds, mean a variety of things. The value of investments are always "perceived."

Being a 100% invested in BTC as the sole crypto is a "eggs in one basket" scenario that many investers would not like. Many investors crave diversification (for many good reasons).  

You may have a point as an additional altcoin not being a needed as currency. Although there are other arguments for. However, as a store of wealth, a 2nd altcoin has a lot of potential demand.

litecoin isn't plummeting. it has been fluctuating between 1.80 and 1.85 on btc-e all week. yeah, ltc/btc goes down, but that's because btc is going up, not because ltc is going down.

One month ago, LTC was > 2.40 USD.

There are 4 times more LTC than BTC.  We know what happens if somebody dumps 10k or 100k of BTC ... but what happens if early adopter will dump 1M of LTC ? or 10M of LTC ? .... LTC above $1 is like buying tulips for $1,000,000/TULIP

What is interesting about this is that it does break with the trend that LTC has been pretty much following BTC over the past year.

I initially expected LTC would be like a hedge for BTC. But it did not work that way during the past months (including the jan-apr bubble), because LTC would dip together with BTC everytime, thwarting my plan for making more BTC profits during the dips.

lol no,

but buy FTC not LTC  :)

Right. Which is following a BTC 2011 trendline more than a current one.

Makes me wonder if this will be the second giant crash of BTC. Surely the price of Bitcoin is rising too fast for it to sustain itself.

Which one was the first?

Was it the correction from the $0.5-$1 rally, the $1-$32 rally (hint, this one was the biggest), or the $32-$266 rally?  And why don't the other two count?

There is a lot more to litecoin supply than "4x as many as bitcoin". 

First, consider the distribution of bitcoin. Millions are lost, satoshi holds a million, winklevoss holds a million, dpr /feds hold 629k, and large businesses have holdings with no intent to sell.  All in all, there are probably about 2 million btc available for trading by speculators. Now consider litecoin. All of the current 20 million lite coins are in play and held by speculators. This makes the supply 10 times as heavy as btc. Also, most of these speculators are waiting to dump during a mtgox IPO.

Second, the mining suuply is actually 8 times greater than that of bitcoin. There are 4 times as many blocks and twice the present block reward. So there is also a heavy constant stream of supply on top of the huge existing supply.

This is why litecoin can trade 3,000,000 ltc in a day and close the day at only a few percent difference. Imagine if btc traded 3,000,000btc in a day, or 750,000btc even. It would shoot up into the moon.

Profits are to be made here for the bold

Second? I'd reckon third or fourth.
It might be. So, bet on that thought then and use the insight to your advantage.

Questions Marks:

- any indication that millions are lost?
- any indication that Satoshi hold a million?
- DPR/FED is 29k
- large businesses? point a few.

I am asking because I try to find this article where mathematicians where implying the same, that BTC supply is much much less.

Okay, let's at least get our facts straight here. First of all, we don't really know what Satoshi holds, but I'll spot you that one for lack of good information, the Winklevii hold roughly 100,000 not 1,000,000, the Feds hold 27,000 and DPR almost certainly does not hold 600,000, but probably at least 100,000.

This is basically the noobiest thing ever.

The distribution of Bitcoin... its a free market. Lytecoin has absolutely no restraints inside of it to prevent hoarding just as much as Bitcoin, because, golly gee, its also a free market. The fact that you seem to imply that simply that having simply more coins restricts hoarding is absurd. All of your '8 times as much LTC being created' is literally equivalent to just splitting apart BTC. There are 1000 times as much mBTC being created as BTC, i.e, 125 times as much as LTC. Does that make mBTC 125 times better than LTC?

I can trade 3,000,000 mBTC in a day and it not shoot up to the moon. You're literally shifting the decimal place over and calling it some great improvement. Honestly this argument makes negative sense.

Lets actually look at what Litecoin is.

1) They divided the time between blocks by 4, multiplying the total amount of currency by 4. Wow, yay for changing constants. As I've already said, multiplying the total money supply doesn't do crap when a currency is as divisible as BTC. Dividing the amount of time between blocks just requires people to check for more confirmations to achieve the same amount of security, thereby achieving absolutely nothing.

2) They use an inferior and less-tested encryption scheme. It attempted to discourage GPU mining but it epicly failed. All it does is make ASICs have a larger barrier to entry, which means that its much more vulnerable to a 51% attack.

3) Its an altcoin, which, if successful, will destroy cryptocoins as a concept since they have the potential to effectively cause any amount of inflation possible if they are accepted as anything other than pump-and-dump schemes.


Every single functional change to BTC actually hurts LTC, and the non-functional effect of changing constants... doesn't matter. Remind me why anybody would ever use this thing as anything but a bubble-making-mechanism?

EDIT: As for "large businesses holding with no intent to sell"... isn't that the whole goddamn point of a currency? If LTC were to be adopted by mainstream audiences, replacing the dollar, then nobody would want to "sell" LTC either, meaning that we should randomly delete all of LTC either and replace it with Fuckcoin?

So should I buy some Litcoin?  I don't have any and have been thinking about it.

YES

I'm not promoting litecoin or making any implications. All I'm saying is mathematical calculations about litecoin supply are more complicated than "4x bitcoin". I'll admit some of my information about numbers I posted about bit coin may be wrong. That'll be easier than proving each one. Thanks. Let's chill out and buy some sexcoins (I don't think there's a fuckcoin).

Bitcoin has risen only 14% after breaking out of a 2 month long consolidation.

litecoin probably rise in the next few weeks

Yes, buy while its still low...

and hope it goes back up...  :D

For anyone wondering whether or not to buy Litecoin, a few points to consider:

- Litecoin was created by Charlie Lee (coblee), an ex Google developer who now works at Coinbase
- Charlie has stated that he hopes to get Litecoin support added to Coinbase (no promises, no timeframe)
- Charlie's brother, Bobby Lee, is the CEO of BTCChina. Charlie has said he will persuade him to add LTC support (again, no promises, but...)
- Litecoin reached a price of 0.045 BTC from 0.006 BTC (a sevenfold increase) earlier this year when MT Gox announced it would be adding LTC support.

Litecoin has been declining in value for a good few months now. It could well go lower. I was buying on the way down, and admittedly should have waited for lower prices. However, at this point I believe LTC is becoming very undervalued. Historically (i.e. at several points this year, this is all very new) it has comfortably traded at 3x this price (in BTC, i.e. 0.033 BTC per LTC). It has a strong team of devs, the advantage of being the first scrypt coin (I believe there is room for a coin which uses a different hash algorithm, as it diversifies the crypto scene), and I believe it is primed to take off on a bit of good news, maybe when the current BTC hype dies down.

This is my rational perspective, of course it wouldn't surprise me if BTC goes berserk and leaves LTC in the dust for now - this is all too common in crypto trading. But for those who believe LTC will still be around in a year or so, you should be keeping an eye out for the best entry point, IMO.

Some quotes from Charlie Lee, remember he is pretty well known in the Crypto world and has some legit connections and dedicated on Litecoin.

- As for working at Coinbase, I think that it's a good thing for Litecoin. A lot of what I learn at Coinbase can be applied to Litecoin in the future. And I get to work closely with Bitcoin folks to help spread the word on Litecoin and increase Litecoin adoption.

- I am Charlie and I have plans to persuade Coinbase to adopt Litecoin. Stay tuned. :)

- Every conference I've been to, I only hear good things about Litecoin. I think a lot of Bitcoin people are starting to realize the benefits Litecoin brings to Bitcoin.

- Right now, the largest Litecoin exchange is btc-e, and people don't trust them or can't rely on only one exchange. So having multiple large exchanges supporting Litecoin will likely be needed before a big payment processor will support Litecoin

- Litecoin works well along side Bitcoin. Litecoin actually helps improve liquidity on exchanges, because it's an easy way for someone exchange their bitcoins without going through fiat. And it helps with stability of both prices.

- Basically get the word out. The more people that hear about it the better. Say that Bitcoin-Litecoin is a good 1-2 punch to the current fiat system.

- I've talked to various large exchanges about LTC support. They are all interested, but these things take time.

- The price of LTC is pretty much all based on speculation right now. This is similar to Bitcoin about 2 years ago. So I wouldn't worry too much about price.
We are working towards keeping the network stable. As Litecoin becomes more popular and grows, there will be more exchange support, more payment processors, and then more merchants. Once we have merchant support, the LTC price will no longer be just controlled by speculation.

- I expect we will see ASIC miners for Litecoin eventually

- This is pretty much how things go: (in order) 1) Network stability and coin features 2) People adopting the coin 3) Exchange support 4) Payment processor support 5) Merchant support.

Don't believe those who just hate on Litecoin and make comments like they know everything. I trust more the words of the creators than some trolls, which you should do the same. Also whats interesting is that Litecoins pattern looks like the early Bitcoin.

back in 2011?  or even before that?

Why is LTC dropping like other LTC-clone?
There is other - better - cryptocoin now. For example, PrimeCoin : 3x faster then LTC, 20-30mln supply, useful in science, unique (cant be copy like FTC, DGC,WDC or other LTC clone), early stage - still CPU mining, innovation in block reward - smooth dropping, good name, checkpoint - more secure to 51% attack, good press, good news in the future (GPU, FGPA, ASIC, new record of the highest prime number, mass-media attention), maybe the biggest prime number could be sell by miner. Still don't know why LTC is dropping? Look around - don't listen to crowd.
Another good example is NVC or PPC

+1

Take a look at Ripple: like it or not, it is something completely different, with different goals, working in a different way, i.e. since it is not a copycat, there might be some market for it.

Lol what does this have to do with anything.
We're not talking about fruits.

I wrote it at a different place already. The market is too big for Bitcoin being the only CC.

There are reasons that Litcoin will dig into the space since it is somparible easy to Bitcoin in various ways. It can also be Feathercoin or both.

But what will come along with Bitcoin does not depend on technology. Never in history pure technology made the run. It is more the believe and that depends on usage. Which of the altcoins will be the winner can not be said now. But if it will be Litecoin the the current price level of 0.01 BTC is an absolute entry point for speculators. But who knew what Bitcoin has developed to when the first 10,000 BTC were invested into a pizza  ;D

Thanks for pointing out my mistake.

This. The litecoin really does not offer something interesting, while PrimeCoin does.

Forget Primecoin .. wtf of the payment community is interested in the calculation of prime numbers ?