Bitcoin Forum

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonbloomberg/2018/03/10/we-need-to-shut-bitcoin-and-all-other-cryptocurrencies-down-heres-why/#7153f03b1bca

Their strategy is simple :

Make a clear division between Permissionless vs. Permissioned Blockchains and act accordingly. This will effectively mean that all Permissionless Blockchains will get targeted and Permissioned Blockchains will be supported.

Your typical BankCoins and GovCoins will be Permissioned Blockchains and they will be controlled by centralized authorities. These coins will adhere to all AML/KYC regulations and they will have full control over what transactions will be mined. They will be able to "blacklist" and "reverse" transactions and even block certain addresses, because they control the Blockchain.

We will see them banning "Public" Blockchains and allowing government verified "Private" Blockchains soon. This is coming, because a lot of people are pushing for this.

Let's educate people on the dangers of these "Private" / "Permissioned" Blockchains and stop investing in them.    >:(

supported by whom?
bitcoin which is THE permission-less system is supported by peers aka its users. and the real bitcoin users will never give up the decentralized bitcoin for a centralized altcoin that the government creates. if they wanted to do that, they would have continued using banks and never even looked at bitcoin twice.

and that was the whole purpose of bitcoin. it was never created to be supported by the government, or be listed on exchanges or have the option to be bought/sold with fiat. these are all things we added later because we wanted to make profit.

You are missing my point. The governments will support/allow Permissioned Blockchains and they will ban Permissionless Blockchains. Your choice to support Permissionless Blockchains will not matter to them, because they will regulate it. They cannot stop it, because it is a decentralized technology, but they can make a clear division between the two types of technologies and how to regulate it.

Decentralized Public Permissionless Blockchains will still exist, but it's use will be severely restricted by these governments. People will still be able to choose which one they will be using and investing in, but regulated exchanges and merchants will not have a choice.

We should concentrate more on the development of decentralized services like OpenBazaar and decentralized exchanges, because these services will be the future of Permissionless Crypto currencies. <You have to be able to trade and use coins on services that cannot be taken down>  

Totally agree with you
but thanks to this, many people have learned about bitcoin and other cryptocurrency and crypto community has become larger.

If governments do make this distinction, they would be effectively be banning the use/exchange of truly decentralized cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin. I doubt if any major, liberal western government can take that step without appearing to be a Luddite. They can regulate the hell out of exchanges and institutions using Bitcoin, but to ban them would look to be a regressive step. And let us face it, governments are worried about their image.

Even in the extreme case, if this does happen, people are not stupid. They will see through the permissioned blockchains for what they are - an extension of the current fiat system, with all its associated problems.

according to this link you provide permissionless blockchain will be shut down entirely, or just switch our investment into permissioned blockchain like ripple and other centralized coins out there, this is great threat n the crypto world, if this will be implemented the transaction fees will increase and maybe ban the permissionless coins, but the KYC system is likely solve some issues. and the most worse about it the profitable coins is the permissionless coins and if being regulated it will be a great loss of profit.

This could be a bad news coming for cryptocurrencies. Educating people to not support this kind of program means we need to have a full force to spread it's disadvantages most especially on our anonymous transactions. If ever this new program is successful then it would start a chaos between decentralized blockchain and centralized one.

Like the core devs are creating and solving problems - in the other hands Govs and other organizations are coding to track you down.
And the way I see it - they're doing good job.
So if you0're thinking to hide from big brother's eye I warn you that BTC is not the solution.

You'd better go and grab your cash and stash them under a surveliance area like criminals used to. Or like banks still do.

BTC or other crypto will overtake sooner or later the digital ecosystem payment and be the only ecommerce's gataway.

I am not going to sit on my hand and hope that the public would know what is good or bad for them. I am going to warn/educate them about the dangers of these Permissioned Blockchains and how this will give full control to centralized authorities to take their investments.

A Permissioned Blockchain is a great threat to people's financial freedom. We have seen what happened when a government had full control over Banks. <another form of centralized private ledger technologies> They closed Banks in Greece and blocked/restricted their access to their money. Also :  https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2013/07/29/bank-of-cyprus-depositors-lose-savings/2595837/

The government will have the control to do what they want with your funds. <everything is digital and saved on their Permissioned Blockchain>  

"Bitcoin is a game where everybody watches everybody else to make sure nobody cheats." - https://twitter.com/lopp/status/976921570013859841

---<< They mine it, they own it, so they can cheat >>---

I disagree with Permissions Blockchains, this is very far from the goal blockchain itself is decentralized. This possibility will entirely be controlled by the government / one institution not by ourselves.
Another case if the problem is anonymity I agree to show my identity in detail. Because of this anonymity that begins to make a lot of crime by using blockchain technology

The vast majority of people will support permissioned blockchains just as it is with FIAT NOW
because that is how the financial infastructure is set up and that will continue.
But permissionless blockchains will exist and survive just as they are now.
They may regulate them but people will always find a way around that.

At the moment I don't see some real danger for Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies.
These new coins might be supported by governments but that doesn't mean they will have the support of users. And that doesn't mean you will not have the choice to use the cryptocurrency you want.
It's understandable that governments want to control currencies but that still doesn't mean this will be successful project that will actualy live.

But who are they?

I do agree with the premise of your argument but I don't see much political pressure or action in this direction yet. I even recall a former head of the SEC saying 'We're not in the business of banning assets'.

It is something worth watching out for, but I think the attack vector is more on the exchange of crypto for fiat than banning Permissionless Blockchains.

There's no difference between attempting to ban permissionless blockchains and attempting to ban permissionless blockchains with an alternative available.  Either way it would be a pretty futile endeavour.

That said, there's no decent reason why a government would attempt to ban permissionless blockchains, which is why it hasn't been happening in most countries.  The only reason that someone would believe they're trying to do so is because of their persecution complex.

Even if they created a permissioned blockchain, which they haven't, it would serve an entirely different purpose to permissionless blockchains and that would be obvious to anyone with half a brain.

I hope this will not happen but if it going to happen i will be selling all my coins and will not use and support that permissioned block chain.

They are missing why bitcoin is attractive and that is decentralization. If they ignore this fact i think less people will be using crypto currency.

It makes me think that monero and such privacy coins will decrase too much eventually, most people care about financial privacy but if government dislikes it, how will it be used by average people?

sometimes in this business many competitors, sometimes people always plagiarize what is being famous, but sometimes they compete with unhealthy. you better do not leave the blockchain that has run smoothly, because the blockchain they offer it is always deceptive.

It could be an attack angle in the future, but I don't see it happening. No one ever talks about the issue, and governments seem far more occupied with taxation rules and regulating exchanges. Decentralization, on the other hand, is a hot topic, so I'm fairly sure permissioned blockchains won't make it very far.

The article made it sound like a big deal, but it's really just some guy making a mountain out of a molehill, saying illicit cryptomining is going to take over entire networks. Viruses that can do that have been in the wild for decades now. No one should be taking what he wrote seriously.

That aspect of the article made the guy seem very new to the whole thing. It was as you say very big when BTC was minable using a CPU and recently made a comeback due to CPU minable altcoins being available now. After the Coinhive JavaScript Monero miner was released it took the antivirus vendors and Microsoft a couple of weeks to block it. That's not a reason to ban blockchains.

Nah it's just forbes trying to catch an eye and make people to read something!
Thats the whole point lol, centralization and premissioned blockchain = gives power to the ones who host it. Bitcoin and others were made to be trust-less system that works according to protocol. Of course that some people don't like this and they are scared for what will future bring, they are scared because they know what this can do to financial sector where banks and others got comfortable to be in the control of money = being in control of everything. Now with open protocols since they can't control them they are trying to beat them up to death and only present to you the possible bad sides and not the true side for what it was made for. Even there are cryptocurrencies that are open but don't use mining, what about those? Writer is clearly not educated enough

what the hell? if your news is real, than blockchain will not be decentralized like now.
if blockchain controlled by a system center, then it won't be blockchain anymore.

There's no need to ban bitcoin and similar cryptos by the government. It's enough in the current situation that they force the exchanges (only real exit points from cryptos to fiat, except localbitcoins) to implement KYC/AML and that will make selling coins really hard if not impossible in the future.
This can be a real threat, as long as merchants won't accept bitcoin directly for their goods and services. When will merchants accept bitcoin directly? When they can pay with their bitcoin income for their expenses, costs. If they can not, they can try to exchange it, but if the exchanges are regulated, this also will be hard.

No, you will still have decentralization with the technology, <decentralized nodes> but in a Permissioned Blockchain those nodes will all be controlled by a single entity or organization. <Like a Bank with nodes distributed in all their branches>

The public Permissionless Blockchains will be the true version of a decentralized Blockchain, because the public will host these full nodes, like it is done now.

Governments will just have two sets of rules for the different technologies. One set of rules for Permissioned Blockchains and a separate set of rules for Permissionless Blockchains.  >:(

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Actually, i dont care centralize or decentralize at all, the only question is that which one will do real help to the world development, centralize may have much problems but it can solve more problems, decentralize need to prove itself that it can do something that we truely need

we are talking about a "currency" here not a magical weapon. a currency is not exactly created to solve problems. it is just a tool that people use as a medium of exchange and being centralized or decentralized means they have different attributes and these attributes create a very different tool which is good for different purposes.
but they can create problems. for example being centralized has led to corruptions in the past.

If bitcoin becomes "not decentralized cryptocurrency" anymore, I don't think many people will still go with it since we all know that if bitcoin becomes controlled by government especially those corrupted once. Chances are the essence or identity of bitcoin may change or be gone forever.

Really? Is that even possible to do? I mean what about the public interest, don't you think government wont study that first and then take the step forward to form something like that. I mean if they really make it happen (permiossionable blockchain) then the first thing that will happen is people will go crazy about it and will revolt against it. Obviously government will have to face that one in first place and their blockchain will never work the way they want. I am definitely sure that government will have to have both things on board or either way they will have to make a midway which will keep both the things in legal manner. But if I were the government then I will never go against the public on such mass level. That's public decision too bro.

'Let's not support permissioned blockchains', yet Ripple has tended to have 10%-20 of the market.

I would not be worried about the threat of such news. I am convinced that bitcoin still has a strong vision that bitcoin is raised to be free from any government regulation and purely in control by its users.

Sounds like something the government would want to do because they know that bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies takes away their ability to control the money of the masses so they need a new way to control it.

I guess once they see bitcoin whitepaper then they should have known it should not be a private one.

They will make it as narrow as they can for people to move. Soon we will all be in one space that they can easily erase.

We have no choice but to make people learn what ceypto should be. It will not be different with fiat if they will be in control.
Again, once money is related they want a grip of it.

Regardless of Governments, things are already centralized even in mining where the Governments may actually involve theirs heads by diving into these companies that send miners to their users and/or ask them to take KYC of their users. Nowadays, all the ICOs ask for KYC even for an airdrop amount, and you know what? People give their documents for just a few bucks (and sometimes, even pennies). What would these ICOs do with our KYC? They will surely give them to their Government Officials to keep themselves safe and let the game going. Who is in danger now? The users who gave their KYC, be it for the purpose of some airdrop tokens or due to their investments. I would ask just 1 question to everyone out here: These Governments say that they are trying to protect us by going to REGULATE crypto. Now think twice and tell me, who are they trying to protect? Regulations will not do anything but just f*ck our asses by making us their slaves once again as this is the only thing that's our weapon to fight their all-time traditional banking systems which have been looting us since years and making rich richer, poor poorer!

I agree. Permissioned blockchains will be controlled by the ones who started it. It's time we tell people the difference.  However, Bitcoin will stay as it is so there should be no problem. The only thing is that huge companies might overcome Bitcoin if ever they had really good marketing.

The reason why bitcoin was even programmed by Satoshi Nakamoto is because its permission less. We are all supporting bitcoin because it is decentralized. We are tired of being controlled by the government or central banks. There are many of us believing in bitcoin and decentralized cryptocurrencies. We are not falling into traps for these outright attacks on bitcoin.

I think that by supporting the private blockchains we are turning our backs on the initial idea of satoshi, being decentralized, this will have consequences and the crypto market will have more control by authorities, handling it at will.

Thats the only way they can control permissionless blockchains, the entry and exit points.
Otherwise we are free to own and to trade crypto as we like even if there are no exchanges.

Doesn't this eliminate the main purpose of blockchain? Having control over a blockchain sounds and is totally ridiculous. It shouldn't be called a blockchain then,it should be called a public database.
I am now seeing a lot of ICOs tricking their investors to buy their shit tokens/coin first and then force the investors to submit KYC documents or their will be gone forever. This is not something that we want but unfortunately nothing can be done about it now. Were people smart enough to identify scammy shits before itself,we wouldn't be here.

Things just got interesting :) After being unsuccessful in trying to bring down bitcoin, they'll be coming up with more ways to bring it down. As if the bad media press releases are enough. Permissined blockchains is the first step in the chsin of attacks to bring centralization into the space. Right now, I don't invest at all if the project isn't fully blockchain based (permissionless blockchains to be specific). Thanks for the heads-up!

I don't see a global or even local (i.e. USA) trying to ban permissionless blockchains.  I do see large corporations utilizing permissioned blockchains to protect their "sensitive" data and dealings.  Permissionless blockchains are too big and have too much money behind them for any potential of being "BAN" imho. 

With every new day there is always a new day for them to try and attack cryptocurrencies, I just wonder how long it will take until they finally realize that there is nothing that they can actually do to stop cryptocurrencies.

That's exactly what I thought it will happen. Governments and banks know that they can't destroy or take down bitcoin so the only thing they can do is create their own coins and get them in the top so that they can take control of the market. But the difference is that their coins are not decentralized and they can control them so that people can't do any transactions without them knowing about them.

Governments are probably going to attract some people to their coin since they will present it as the new future without taxes, of course they are going to lie because they know how to manipulate the population. But we, the persons that already know about this should take notice of their plan and be prepared for it.

So rightly we deduce money and taxes do not pay, that's the conclusion that the government is dissatisfied

What are you saying? Should people stop paying taxes to stop this from happing? This will just give them the match to light the fire, if people start doing that. They are doing this to get full control, so if you stop paying taxes with Crypto currencies and you are using these Permissioned Blockchains, then they have access to your money and they can do the transfer of those tokens without your permission. <Alternatively, block you from accessing your coins, until you pay>

This is the danger of giving governments full control over your money, they will find an excuse to take it or to block you from accessing it. https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2013/07/29/bank-of-cyprus-depositors-lose-savings/2595837/   >:(

good for different purposes. Really? I mean, for the benefit of the public, do you think the government will not study it first and then step forward to create something like that. Obviously the government will face one of the first places and their blockchain will never work the way they want. But if I were a government, I would never be against the public at such a level.