Bitcoin Forum

Many of you are stuck in a position where Butterfly Labs has still not delivered their products to you and are refusing you a refund.  This is illegal in the United States under basic sales contract law.  You do not need an actual physical "paper" contract to be entitled to these protections.  The protections are automatic when a sale is made.

As I tried to explain this to Josh I was met with nothing but grade school insults.  You can view the conversation starting at this post if you so wish:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=278844.msg3418806#msg3418806 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=278844.msg3418806#msg3418806)

Anyways, there is something you can do today that will help put an end to BFL's illegal business practices.  If you have an order from BFL and you have been refused a refund you may file a complaint with the Federal Trade Commission.  This is actually very easy.  Go to the following site:

https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/#&panel1-1 (https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/#&panel1-1)

On the right hand side of the screen, select "Internet Services, Online Shopping, or Computers".  For the subcategory, select "Online Shopping".  You will see the following options:
   I received merchandise late.
   I never received merchandise.
   I was not notified about a late shipment.
   I did not receive a prompt refund.
   I never received a correct refund.
   Other

Check all that apply, and continue to the next page.  It will now ask you for details about when you requested your refund.  Fill in the information on when you sent your email requesting a refund, the dates, and who responded (if you got a response at all).

Now continue to the next page.  It will ask you for details about the company.  Here they are:
Address: 10770 El Monte
Leawood, KS 66211
Phone: 1-800-809-MINE (6463)

Now continue to the next page.  It will ask you for your contact information.  This is optional but I recommend filling it out so that they can call you to get more information so they can move forward on taking action against BFL.  However, even if you don't fill out your contact information you will be doing a great service since if enough people file one they will definitely open an investigation of the company.

Now continue to the last page.  This is simply a comments box.  Type all of the relevant information about your experience.  Additional information will help them greatly in their investigation into BFL's business practices and how they are violating consumer protection laws regarding refunds and late deliveries.

That is all.  Go to the next page and it will review your complaint and you can submit it.  The whole process takes less than 10 minutes.

I would like to add to this.

I have been trying to do this for sometime without success.

At a guess, this page of the website is not available in some countries outside the US.

I have tried with HideMyAss proxy and can now access the page.

I will try to file shortly and report back soon.

this should be stickied.

Agreed. At this point there is little doubt that people will need to go this route to get some sort of redress for the feigned "ineptitude" of BFL.

I had no luck with hidemyass and tried various other web based proxies with no luck.
Java was an issue and needed to be upgraded also.
I added one click proxy to firefox - and it looks good but I got disturbed by a call and have not completed. Its already late so I will try again tomorrow.


Is any other non US residents having issues with this. ?
Maybe this is why BFL has had such an easy ride ?

More info: http://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0221-billed-merchandise-you-never-received-heres-what-do

The example on the site is hilarious:

I can confirm that I was able to lodge my complaint with the above. Please persevere with this and get your complaint filed.

This post was made on Reddit at the same time and took off.  There have been at least dozens (if not more) confirmed federal trade violation complaints filed against BFL this weekend.

View reddit post here:
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1pat5e/how_to_file_a_ftc_complaint_against_bfls_illegal/ (http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1pat5e/how_to_file_a_ftc_complaint_against_bfls_illegal/)

Keep up the pressure guys, let's put a stop to this kind of behavior once and for all.

No not at all, see my post up there ^^^^^^^^

Once you can access it, it even asks your country.. I have sent them comments regarding the difficulty of access.

The heat is on, Josh baby :-*

Yes, this should be done long ago. Please close them down and jail the one in-charge of this scam business..

 It certainly makes you lose faith in our legal system, the AG's office, the FTC, and the owners and moderators of these very forums that they continue to allow a business with such morally and ethically-reprehensible business tactics; allow polarizing, smug, and antagonistic figure heads to be allowed to profit in the way they do at our collective expense.

 The heat has been on Butterfly Labs for some time, and all their monetary contributions have bought them asbestos suits and immunity from sanction.

 While it's unlikely that anything will come from your FTC or Attorney General complaints, it does help to establish a pattern of malfeasance on the part of Butterfly Labs, on the odd chance consumer protection agencies actually make an effort to do their jobs and hold them to account. Maybe one of your complaints will finally be the one that breaks the camels proverbial back, and finally gets Federal wheels turning at opening BFL's books and prosecuting them to the furthest extent the law allows.

 Theymos deserves just as much contempt lobbed at him for effectively sticking his head in the sand, while holding out his hands and taking advertising dollars while the world burns around him and laughing all the way to the bank.

This is the key part.  One or two people here and there making a complaint isn't going to make a difference.  If hundreds of people make complaints then that will get their attention.  That's why it's important that *everybody* who has been wronged by this company needs to make a complaint.  The FTC has limited resources and are only going to go after a company that they have received a substantial number of complaints about.

If the feds open an investigation of how this company is doing business it's over for them.  The FTC will open a case against them and the likely outcome is that the company would be fined and forced to change their policies.  I don't know how much money BFL has extracted from people, but if the fine was big enough it could actually shut them down.

They owe me 30K. My complaints are in. $ value in complaints should be getting high enough to spark attention.

If we can't get it stickied, Then lets keep bumping it!
FCC certification? NOPE!, Lied about that <-Illegal
PSU bricks exploding <-Can burn a house down
Quality Control is a joke <-Should be a top priority, but is practically Skipped
Refusal of Refunds <-Illegal
Forcing refunds upon outwardly disrespectful purchasers who have waited half a year for more delays <-Just wow
Failure to offer refunds <-Should cause a forced refund
Failure to issue refunds if the user fails to respond <-Should cause a forced refund
Constant false advertising <-Illegal, and they did this for eight months
False comparison stats on their site <-Horrible sportsmanship and potentially "not allowed"
Worst PR i've ever seen <-Get josh off PR
Communication with customer takes 2-3 weeks <-Should take 1-2 hours considering Bitcoins volatility
"All sales final no refunds" on a preorder for a product that has never been constructed <- Not legal
"All sales final" on pre-orders <- Not legal!
Paying the BBB to remove their F rating <-The BBB itself is a scam (Seriously), so not SO big of a deal

And yet the bitcoin forums are still allowing BFL to advertise here?!
Is it not that knowingly being an accessory to a crime and not doing something to prevent it makes you just as guilty?
Bitcointalk.org is practically in abidance and aiding BFL and thier illicit actions!

Just filed my complaint with the FTC! Keep those complaints rolling in folks.

Filed yesterday, mainly based on their complete failure to respond to any of my many attempts to to get a warranty replacement for a miner they sent dead on arrival. It's been a week and a half and I haven't gotten as much as an acknowledgement of my emails, calls etc. Complete silence. Thanks for the link!

Will file small claims court case this week. Done my research already, seems easy enough.

Le Bumpage for those that missed this.

Bump. why? Cuz fuck BFL.

Ok the dude bumped this but now I need to know - did you feel a small claims case and what happened?  Would be awesome to find out.

I received my bfl in promised time and have no hate for them.

Le Bumpage for those that missed this.