Bitcoin Forum

I was wondering what was your personal opinion on how long till bitcoins become outlawed? I read that a few governmental officials are trying to ban them do to being anonymous and being a competing currency with the USD.

I would think it would be as successful as trying to ban Euros or any other type of foreign currency. Maybe I'm being naive here but I don't see bitcoin as any different than any other currency except that its decentralized.

The more people try and get rid of it the larger it will get, especially with all the anti-gov't sentiment these days

Good point, when they start going after it, people will take an interest to it and maybe pick it up (kinda like k2, synthetic coke, etc.).

Anyplace they get banned will drive business elsewhere.  I'm not sure this can be stopped.

Actually I think some of the politicians might consider using this tool to attack the traditional banking system, which government have no control at all today.

Lincon was murdered just because he did not take loans from those bankers to support the war.

It will be interesting to see how they try to do it. ISPs block certain ports? If you get caught with them on your harddrive, you face criminal charges? What form would that take?

The easiest method of attack would be shutting down the exchange of bitcoins with fiat currency.

Taking out the large exchanges would make finding the price of bitcoins at any given time more difficult.

It would be near impossible, however, to stop local bitcoin trading.

Price befuddlement in addition to illegality would prevent adoption by any meaningful scale of retailers (legitimate ones anyway).

So, worst case scenario is a very distributed network of exchangers and merchants. Not too bad, but more difficult certainly.

There was a ruling by FinCEN recently that is likely to be interesting to Bitcoiners:
 - http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=30152.0

Also, this issue isn't specific to Bitcoin.  Facebook is getting closer to letting users redeem Facebook Credits for real-world goods and services.  Here's an interesting article that is related to this discussion:
 - http://seekingalpha.com/article/281501-i-want-my-virtual-currency

I would like to agree with what others have said already. Trying to ban bit-coins will only attract more adopters.
And besides, if they do try and ban it, it's just gonna result in something similar to what is happening with torrents.
Shut one site down, 10 more will pop up.
And there are too many people using these for them to go after everyone, so they will most likely just make "examples" out of the biggest users.

They can try and ban it, but it wont work.

That said, they could try to kill the markets... and other things without directly affecting bitcoin itself.

It'll probably become a black market though because they pop up everywhere.

got a VPN provider?

To be honest I don't think they will ever be outlawed, either that or all other virtual and in-game currencies need to be disallowed too... it's just not practical. There needs to be some form of cash in the digital age and cryptocurrency is the way to do it.

If they can't raise taxes at the points of sales/services, that is where the real problem is to any government. In some ways it is like a cash in hand business, but on the bright side for taxmen/IRS it is traceable in ways that cash is not.

Indeed, a networkprotocol cant seriously be banned (in the way that it doesnt exist any more afterwards). But even if its illegal and perfectly useable, it will deter 99% of all possible users and all legal merchants. Without that as a backup, it would even get uninteresting for blackmarket use. So, ban the trading (which is somewhat easy to do), bring the BTC system to a halt.

That said, I highly doubt it will ever get banned in european countries. Which might be enough for a stable system..

On a sidenote: In Germany they try to pass a law to outlaw any anonymous purchase of money, currency, vouchers, no matter how small the amount..

Ente

My opinion:

Before they can outlaw BitCoin in supposedly a free country like USSA, the Main Stream Media will need to mold a decent portion of public opinion to be in favor of its destruction. I don't think it will be easy for them to make it illegal, but you'll know they are pushing for it when there are big stories on national TV demonizing the currency.

I believe they are still banking that it will fail on its own or it will never achieve the potential that many of us see in it.

I hear the govt is going to ban Bitcoins right after they shut down ThePirateBay.

I don't think it's possible for them to take out Bitcoin fully, and people have invested a lot of money in Bitcoin, I think it would just be too controversial for them to shut it down. It's not like it's causing anyone harm [yet].

I don't think it could be made illegal in the UK.

Well if it did the law would also apply to the Brixton Pound and many other regional currencies in the UK.

Bitcoin can never be outlawed in the US.

They can refuse to enforce bitcoin contracts in their court's but that is it.

Bitcoin would have to be inherently unlawful, which of course it isn't.

They could ban all legal business in the US (or other countries that decide to crack down on bitcoins) from accepting them. Without non-blackmarket or completely private real world uses in that country, bitcoins would loose a lot of their potential and appeal.

Many things were said to be "impossible in the US" - until one day they happened.

Those things happen to "citizens" and "residents".
I don't live in the land of make believe.
There is no state and there are no citizens.

A body politic can neither make nor take homage
ex fide non ficta

I don't live in a world of make-believe either.

I do however live in the real world.

I hope it is never outlawed. It is nice being left alone by any Bitcoin specific laws.

Heh, exactly.

I doubt that would happen - although they can make life difficult for us, what was that site that accepted paypal that got shutdown recently?

Outlawed or not... how would they stop it from being used...

Oneproblem with outlawying bitcoin i that yxou have to be VERY carefull not to have serious side effects, like banning iany in game virtual currency. Linden Dollars? WOW Gold? WIll all those also be forbidden?

It is a VERY thin line that has to be done here not to get constitutional invalid or kill all non official currencies in games.... which would be a stupid move.

Not exactly - unlike ThePirateBay, Bitcoin needs exchanges and businesses with real bank accounts and real bookkeeping to be able to accept it.

What they cannot control, they try desperately to destroy.

The "Problem" governments see in bitcoins is the unability to control it(and therefore tax it). The Annonimity it provides gives "shady" characters a whole new spectrum and possibilities and therefore i kind of can understand where they are comming from. BUT and that is a big BUT i see this realistic. The only thing the dont like about bitcoins is they cant get ahold of it / make money of it / are actually kinda loosing money. (Hughe deals done with btc = no tax) therefore screw the government. And i dont think that they can outlaw it because as already mentioned how can you ban online currencies like linden dollars/wow gold etc. ? and this is code they try to ban -> shouldnt be possible. Even though i do see risks in BTC i love and i think/hope that we will always be able to use it.
PS: dont dream: its not going to be a legal currency for loooooooooooooooooong, not until they can figure out how to tax it ;)
greetz
cookie

What does outlawing mean? Everyone is innocent until proven guilty. You can murder someone and if you are not convicted then you are innocent.
How much effort do you think the FBI will put into a crime where someone used bitcoin to buy socks? How much effort do they put in if you downloaded the last episode of Doctor Who on bit torrent? The law is only interested in crimes that are serious or easy to prove. No one will care about legitimate bitcoin transactions because the cost of pursuing them would be greater than any possible political or social benefit.

edit: The music industry have pursued up-loaders of copyrighted material, but who will pursue bitcoin users? Someone needs to call the police before the police will act. Who will call them? No actual crime is being committed - it's safer than bit-torrent, because you are not doing anything obviously wrong..

Sorry but in most countries it is guilty until proven innocent. The first thing that most cops say to you when they arrest you for maybe/possibly having committed a crime is "Anything you say or do can and will be held against you in a court of law", not "Anything you say or do can and will be used to help defend your innocence in a court of law"

EDIT: Sorry for going off topic, but these little things annoy me.

We're talking the USA though here, which has the policy of innocent until proven guilty. Many other countries don't, but we're discussing Bitcoins in the US.

I just quoted the US Miranda rights, for most states.
"You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say or do can and will be held against you in a court of law. You have the right to speak to an attorney. If you cannot afford an attorney, one will be appointed for you. Do you understand these rights as they have been read to you?"

And any cop/lawyer worth their salt will tell you to never speak. Because anything you say will not and can not be used to defend your innocence. That is not quite innocent until proven guilty. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cL_2lT8DojM

...Okay, and? That doesn't have anything to do with the US's innocent until proven guilty policy. If you say something incriminating, of course it will be used against you, as they are informing you when you are read your rights. Until proven guilty, regardless of how you may prove yourself guilty, you are considered innocent under US law.

The Convention for the Protection of Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms of the Council of Europe says (art. 6.2): "Everyone charged with a criminal offence shall be presumed innocent until proved guilty according to law". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presumption_of_innocence.
If at the time of arrest I say 'It's a fair cop, I dun it guvnor', then obviously that's going to influence the outcome of the trial. Though they still have to prove it.

Proving someone guilty requires a due legal process (ie suspicion of crime, investigation, arrest, trial, conviction, appeal, rejection of appeal).
Since this process involves many man hours of work, the authorities will only put in the effort if they feel their effort is going to be rewarded. Bitcoin will only be of interest to the authorities when it is used within the context of a real crime.

Really? That must have passed me by somehow.

I'll keep an eye out for it though!

I thought it was innocent until a threat to those in power.

I know a lot of people hoping it crashes and burns... Hope it doesn't....

Depends on who is running the government. If Ron Paul wins, probably not for a long time. Hopefully.

I'd hope they have bigger and more corrupt things to worry about.

Like THEMSELVES?

Kinda off topic, but this Special where the guy goes into A miami prison for a few weeks was pretty insane.  Some of these people haven't even been to trial yet and they've been in for years.  Technically most of these people are innocent.  But you sill have to be in a shithole. Watch if you have time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Px2kTQKZaSU

it seems to me that persons are free to utilize whatever medium of exchange they choose in free countries.

Hey,

Even if they try to outlaw it, it would still be used by some.
You don't have to follow the rules and can just ignore the law.

Regards,
alemaalte

How do you ban something that does not physically exist?  ???

The same way you ban childporn ...