Bitcoin Forum

Which means I have to follow the chain on who manages and runs it= TradeFortress. Personally never had any issues with him as he once loaned me 5 btc "of course I paid back with interest and in time." now that Inputs is down do you think Inputs was a scam?

http://www.bitcoincasinopro.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/lawsuit-time1.jpg

Another bitcoin business run by an anonymous dude bites the dust. I won't say it's a scam, but that's over a million gone. I have a hard time believing he's that incompetent, he seemed to have his shit together and know what he's doing, so the simplest explanation would be that the temptation was too much for him. I hope that's not the case though, he seemed like a decent guy.

Edit:
https://i.imgur.com/ClUPWD2.jpg

Don't use web wallets.

Seriously - it always ends in tears.

This is some great advice.


It sounds like TF doesn't know how to handle security, I wouldn't touch anything he does now and would advise others to stay away.

No one lost any coins, TF "lost" his coins but you didn't own any coins as soon as you sent them to a web wallet.

Cute Dog.... What wallets do you recommend? I personally use Coinbase.com (https://coinbase.com/?r=52058b584532bb71b200001a&utm_campaign=user-referral&src=referral-link) and that is because they are licensed and a regulated business in California good old USA. You can actually visit the office.

I mean if I was to pick a wallet I would use CoinBase but really I would just make a good ol paper wallet with Armory.

Armory is the gold standard in secure, long-term bitcoin storage.

If you absolutely must use a web wallet, use blockchain.info but limit the amount of value you store there to no more than you'd feel comfortable carrying around in your physical wallet.

please don't use web-wallets...

What about Blockchain.info wallets?

Why can't ppl just use electrum

This pretty much,

I think of my Debit card as my "cold storage" (lol calling a bank account cold storage)

and carrying notes in my wallet as a hot wallet.

Just put as much as your willing to lose in your blockchain account for quick access so you don't have to compromise your cold storage ;p

Unlike the other services in this field, they (probably) don't have direct access to your private keys, so as long as you use a strong passphrase they are probably the least-insecure web wallet.

Just don't store more than you can afford to lose there.

I recommend a local wallet. Multibit and Electrum are decent for everyday handling of bitcoins. For large amounts of coin though an offline Armory wallet split between an air gapped machine and a networked watching machine is probably best.

"For large amounts of coin though an offline Armory wallet split between an air gapped machine and a networked watching machine is probably best." --Could you list some examples?

Yeah explain more about the armory and the way to secure it the most.

http://bitcoinarmory.com/about/using-our-wallet/

Directions and explanation there are good except until the new version is released you really need 8-16 GB RAM on the online machine.

The new version of Armory is going to be awesome. If you're comfortable compiling source code yourself you can run test versions of it and use the split paper backup feature now.

Wow, "hacks" seem to happen so often in this community. Still think trusting an anon with a million dollars is a good idea?

I lost some Faucet money in there too.
local wallet is too slow( i means download the chain) . I would slower when bitcoin is used widely.

I thinks the trend will be online wallet (of course we need more secure mechanism)

Well the free .16 per month was fun while it lasted.  Any other great faucets out there?  I don't really want to advertise for a gaming site though.  This site seemed legit but I guess I was wrong. 

Well the subject of air gapping a machine (http://trilema.com/2013/how-to-airgap-a-practical-guide/) has been covered before better than I can do it.

The same has been done as well on Armory's own site for offline wallets. http://bitcoinarmory.com/about/using-our-wallet/ (http://bitcoinarmory.com/about/using-our-wallet/)

Basically you use a never connected to the internet machine to generate an armory wallet and then generate seeds for watching only wallets you can view on internet connected machines. While their guide recommends electronic media to pass things between the offline and online computer, I'd suggest using printers and scanners with decent OCR capabilities. There is even a daemon version of Armory suitable for web services in case you want every transaction to be manually approved, but the server needs to be aware of balances and allow deposits (This implies there would be a withdrawal delay, but for services dealing in large amounts of Bitcoin this might be comforting as every coin is stored cold).

This is quite the hassle though which is why for everyday spending with amounts you aren't too afraid to lose Multibit or Electrum probably make more sense from a convenience standpoint.  The battle is between convenience and security.

it's ok for me . Just tiny amount

http://dailybitcoins.org  :)

I think bitcoiners finally will learn the lesson - NEVER trust your Bitcoins to the online wallet!

Wow its been a while remember when I started bitcoin I almost used a webwallet but then saw them collapse a few days later and installed QT
From then on I always emptied webwallets that said my condolences to those that lost a lot of BTC

My husband seemed a bit paranoid to me about keeping Bitcoin in a cold wallet but I suppose he deserves some credit for being careful!  He was right.  (Wives never like saying that BTW ;))  Thankfully I only lost a small amount (.17) that I had received for just having the ad on my page.  Now I am ticked I even advertised at all for them though!   >:( 

I wonder if the gambling sites he has ownership in lost there balances? Clearly a concern for ratings concerns.

Bit777 had a thing on there

"Inputs allows us to send Bitcoin instantly and securely without fees, providing a better experience while saving us development time."

Bit777 Team

what about coinlenders?

Another deep concern thanks for pointing that out!  :o

Wow. I just withdrew 9 coins from there within the last 36 hours.

People never cease to amaze me..

why are you pimping inputs in your signature for .20 a month then ?

They will once they get deposit insurance. But the insurance companies might insist on independent security audits, and we wouldn't want that, now, would we? ::)

4100 BTC 1 M USD nice..

The only web wallet that's worth using is coin base.

Search the forums and Reddit.

Besides the vulnerabilities inherent to all web wallets, Coinbase additionally has lovely quirks like randomly encountering difficulties broadcasting transactions into the network.

After this I'm pretty sure the correct answer is use local wallets or be prepared to lose coins if you weren't prepared to lose them before.

I emailed them in regards to this, they say it's random. I like the randomness it might save someone huge some day.

Yes.

coinbase could run like inputs too

Highly unlikely but anything is possible!

And the CEO of Bank of America could take your money as well. One huge difference is Coinbase is licensed and regulated in state of California. I think its important to mention Coinbase has and does work with with the Federal Authority when court ordered to do such.

see if they have few M in hand and run away without trace

Well apparently someone is working on a darkwallet
http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2013/10/31/darkwallet-aims-to-be-the-anarchists-bitcoin-app-of-choice/

Comes with a PR video too
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ouo7Q6Cf_yc#t

Yeah its a sick video...gave me goose bumps...but they made the video for their indiegogo campaign. They raised 30k already in only a few days.

whats the safest wallet now for gambling

He-he I nominated it for the project of the quarter but it will be interesting to see it working
Sharing the link for those curious
http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/bitcoin-dark-wallet
On a sidetopic other random projects on indiegogo
http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ar-wear-confidence-protection-that-can-be-worn


Define Safe
I guess blockchain but not for large amounts just-dice has its own investor wallet as well

Sorry for the OT but why the online machine need more than 8GB of RAM?

blockchain.info?

own investor wallet means offline wallet?

 They have been aggressively marketing the site, a lot of giveaway, partner bribe, etc, no fee sending, how do they make money? Other than trying to runaway with user money.

Dark Wallet just looks like a god damned browser plug-in. Something stand alone like Multibit or Electrum seem safer and aren't that onerus.


Could be hacked to serve malicious javascript. Seriously learn to run a local fucking wallet.

Everyone in this thread, look at bitcoin-qt and armory together the safes way to handle bitcoins on your computer. Otherwise the best way would be paper wallets, I have a lot of paper wallets.

bitaddress.org or do u have a quick tutorial for doing such

I actually use armory for my paper wallets, it so easy.

Just keep bitcoin-qt opened, it will be sync some day, they leave it opened, you'll contribute to the network as a full node, and your wallet will always be ready to use.  Just make backup of the wallet file, and use armory to paper backup your cold storage from an offline computer.

Maybe TradeFortress should have spent less time scamming ripple newbies and creating ripplesscam websites and more time securing his own website!

Perhaps it's a good time to remember people to secure their wallet:
http://bitcoin.org/en/secure-your-wallet

Seriously, these events are extremely disappointing for the whole community.

with his name he can easily scam a few hungred btc

Is using two passwords, one to login, one to authorize funds transfers, and 2fa on coinbase.info enough to combat vulnerabilities from both sides?

I doubt, but I wouldnt trust US based wallet, the coins can be frozen and seized at any time coinbase receive oder from DoJ

And for the same exact reason I used InstaWallet, albeit in the good ol' France. Can't wait to get my 1,100+ BTC back. Last time I saw my sweet babies was late March of this year, then April Fools rolled around...

Actually I've been waiting for this. It's really bad for the reputation of the Bitcoin world, especially a lot of newbies using inputs.io wallets.

What fraction is this of their entire cold storage amount, I wonder? What happened to their cold wallet?

This silliness is getting plain funny.


Ha, and there was me thinking all the people advertising for them were inputs.io Staff... People with ads in their sigs should be careful! :o

1st--
who in their right mind would store bitcoins on inputs.io

2nd--
who actually believes it was "hacked"

For small amount it was fine because of free transactions.




Actually I do, it is tough to get secure system

It's not tough to not keep a million dollars worth of bitcoins in a fuckng hot wallet, after claiming to use cold storage. No system is perfectly secure, that's why you don't do that, it's a rookie thing to do and I don't see TF doing that after his security lectures on everyone else.

I have bitcoin-QT , inputs.io , blockchain, and coinbase account.
I backup my wallet everyday. I use inputs only because the Faucet.

If bitcoin can be generally accept in the future. You must keep some in your pocket (whether is phone wallet or online wallet) cos U need it for transaction. I think it is inevitable. Thus it will still happen in the future

I would hope that there are NOT a lot of newbies using inputs.io, given that the bitcoin.org "Choose your wallet" page doesn't list it and in fact contains explicit warnings about using web wallets.

It always amazes me that anyone uses these services at all. inputs.io is not the first bank-like operation to get hacked this way.

The whole point of Bitcoin is you can be in control of your own money. Why on earth would someone purchase some coins, and then give them to someone else? Just use MultiBit, or Hive, or MacWallet, or Armory or Bitcoin-Qt. The first three are all really fast and can sync with the block chain in just a few seconds.

Crap, I had a couple of BTC there just to try it out and the damn thing get's hacked after a couple of days...

This just in: Full tradefortress docs

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=326914.new#new

or is this really just tradefortress planting false information to cover his tracks and hide his true identity. you be the judge.

let's all leave him negative trust!

The stable version of Armory loads the entire blockchain into RAM.

The testing version will fix that.

I moved to this section from the Donator section a topic which I created to scrutinize Tradefortress activities:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=211169.0

Please, read all carefully. You will find out that Tradefortress is involved in fraudulent activities since his inception in this forum. The tragic part is that Theymos, the administrator of this forum, gave special treatment to him, even after I produced the evidence which shows Tradefortress has been involved in the creation of sock puppets to dupe the forum participants.

TradeFortress:

I hope you make sure that the mail address of the sender is his real address, as anyone can send a mail claiming to be any sender! So, i would insist on at least one reply from the one requesting refunds to make sure nobody else was using his address.

just got a reply from tradefortress ,

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=326881.msg3508178#msg3508178

I strongly urge anyone who has lost their coins in this incident (or any other of Mr. Wang's schemes) to please report (http://www.asic.gov.au/asic/asic.nsf/byheadline/Report+misconduct+to+ASIC?openDocument) the matter to the Australian Securities and Investments Commission (even if you're not Australian). Don't worry, the Australian government is moderately on-the-ball when it comes to Bitcoin, and they will be most interested to know that an unlicensed bank has "lost" over a million dollars of it. I'd do it myself except that I'm not personally involved in any of these schemes, and I don't really know all the details of this case (though I'll probably report it anyway if nobody else does, though it's not likely to do any good unless one or more actual victims come forward).

Jesus there's a lot of shady stuff there..

To all the people bashing those who have webwallets - the reason i have a web wallet is because probably 7 months ago I managed to get a virus which stole my private key from my local wallet. Lucky for me there wasn't much coin to be stolen but none the less i learned that no matter how good you think you are with computers people always make mistakes. I was stupid.  I personally feel my bitcoin is more secure on a web wallet (like blockchain.info) then on my computer. Obviously cold storage is your best bet but annoying to access funds.

So if you had all your BTC on inputs you just got taken for the 2nd time ( you didn't say you did ).  If anyone should realize how important your last sentence is, it should be you.

People keep their fiat currency safe, but when it comes to BTC most are just lazy.  Web wallets will always be around, and they will always be hacked.  This situation isn't going to change anything, most people don't learn from others past mistakes; they just think, "Oh, that sucks, good thing that could never happen to me." 

How does it make you feel the trust system has been possibly abused? Clearly anyone that received auto trust from him should be looked over. Recent Skype message I got form Fortress.

http://www.bitcoincasinopro.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/bribe.jpg

And to think this guy has my SS#, DL, and Military ID. With situation at hand is it best now to file a report and start the process of trying to receive a new SS# ?

I'm so glad I transferred my bitcoins a DAY before TF closed the site down :)

Makes me wonder if he allowed the site to run after the hack so he could get his personal funds out, and allow his buddies to get their money out before divvying up what was left to the rest of the suckers.

Inputs.yourmoneyintomypocket

this is what i thought from the beginning. it was clear that some funds were still able to be moved out of inputs.io for quite some time after "the hack." TF continuing to accept deposits while letting others (and himself) cash out, and this goes on for weeks until the pyramid collapses? TF deserves a scammer tag unquestionably.

Would have been more useful if us plebes who came into the coin after the GLBSE collapse and saw no reason to trust Theymos with coin could have seen this shit earlier...

those are wise words.

No. I haven't moved coins out of Inputs personally. The coins I did "move out" are (i) routine signature ad payments, (ii) wallet refill of coinchat/coinlenders, (iii) CL associated payments and (iv) coins moved to reduce hot pocket amount that are now being used to repay users.

Everyone who was aware of the hack previous to the public announcement were not Inputs users.

Bullshit.  Why should we believe a word out of your mouth.  Until you report this theft to the police you have ZERO trust.  Until you do that, piss off.

Anyone who has lost any money on this.  Please report this to the Australian authorities yourselves.  He's obviously not going to do it for you.

http://bitcoinreviewer.com/inputs-io-hacked-refund/

Just leaving this here for those who still were not able to get refunds.

My opinion that it was not intended as a long scam. Idea was great, execution was ok, everything was working, he paid quite a lod for ad space and other promotions. It would be interesting to look into TF's bookkeeping - how many BTC he got total, how many did he earn/lose in inputs before this event, how much will he probably lose by reputation damage.

Personally I do not believe it's a scam.

Also it's interesting what the thief will do with his btc - drop it fast or keep it?

The good (and bad, in this case) about Bitcoin is how easy it becomes to trace any transactions back to its source, and now the hacker has a whole lot of "marked" Bitcoins. It think it would take a fair bit of mixing before they can spend them freely.

Also this can also be a huge gamble/gambit on TF part - "lose" 4k BTC at $300 and refund them a "find" bit later when they are $200

Although again, I stress out that personally I do not believe TF is a scammer.

Same really, and I'm going to apply Hanlon's Razor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor) on this particular case, until I'm proven wrong. I just don't think it would have made much sense to drop the facade now if he was scammer after putting so much effort on all his services, no matter how deeply flawed was their security from the get-go, and trying to build a reputation when he could have done it far earlier, probably get away with more money and when BTC wasn't at an all-time high so people would eventually forget about it.

people don't learn

1. He risked the security of thousands of bitcoins by having them stored in a hot-wallet, despite saying the contrary on several occasions.
2. He risked the security of thousands of bitcoins by using a hosting provider that has been known for months as problematic.
3. He let the services run for over 2weeks despite the knowledge of an attack that occurred and let people in the dark and received more deposits in this time.

Now after these points, do you really think he deserves any sympathy?
Of course its better to not run when you see that everybody got your real name already, that would be more then remotely stupid, Of course you would try to smoothing the offset, especially if you run a non-licensed financial institution that processed several millions of dollars worth.

He was and is a big part of btc community, and he indeed does deserve some sympathy.

When he is such a big part of this community, why does he make no attempt in trying to reveal the hackers identy? Why isnt he any helpful in regards towards an investigation?

And you are who defending him the whole time? If he is such a big part of the community why cant he speak for himself and is doing only selective responses?
Assuming and knowing are two different things, and from what i read yet he doesnt get anyone involved into any investigation process, and he himself doesnt seem be able todo it all.

Probably time to contact the Australian Government as someone suggested.

here is another one of his profiles https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=38455
notice the name? same name and location Australia

show some proof to back this up

What if he just refunds people that had more than 1 BTC from the amount that he stole? So not from his own personal money. There are still lots of people that had less than 1 BTC and he would make good profit just from their bitcoins.

I would also refund 1000 from the 4100. A simple math takes me to 3100 btc which are left in my pocket :P

Sadly, I don't think they will.

If there is one thing that I learned this year, it is that people are careless with their Bitcoins.

Not sure why naive people are drawn to this community but scams are clearly going to continue to pile up.

I really do find it most amusing that so many people 'buy' BTC from Coinbase (and similar companies of the same ilk) and proceed to store these 'BTC' in online wallets.  To sell numbers on a screen, what an awesome business model.   :D

Sure, NOT ALL the online/hosted wallet providers are intentionally dishonest, having malicious intent from the outset.  Sure, many operators of these businesses are smart people and, in fact, mostly do as they claim.  The fact is that almost every single one will 'borrow' from the kitty and, the bigger they get, the loftier their outlook becomes and the more they will tend to do this.  

Why is it that no one talks about capital adequacy ratios?  

Why are so many bitcoin users, who are generally smarter than average people, act so stupid as to put their hard-earned wealth in someone else's hands and ask for nothing in return, no compensation for the risk?

Has no one in crypto-coin land heard the term 'due diligence' nor considered the value proposition of 'independent audits'?
 - with blockchain data publicly available, audit activities could be almost entirely automated.

I buy from Coinbase because they are the most efficient way to purchase BTC in the US, and I move those coins to a wallet I control.

Coindesk is only too happy to pronounce <your-BTC-business> is <anything-you-like> so long as you pay them (~2BTC is the going rate).  

Why does the site ask for your email if you had more than 1BTC?
 - did we forget to backup the ledger as well as move private key/s offline?



Armory is a bit of a hassle and for non-IT n00bers, you cannot seriously recommend it with a straight face.

The easiest and best way to 'cold' store 'coin' offline? 
Grab vanitygen64 or similar from github; make a few addresses and keep the prvkey offline; send nest egg funds to one of these addresses; make very sure you keep the private key printed in triplicate and each copy stored in a very safe place.



The vulnerability here is very likely a combination of greed and lack of supervision.  The former will always exist and should thus be assumed and expected.  The latter, is up to everyone to demand and insist is mandatory* and a requisite for doing businesses.

The policy everyone needs is "It is not that I don't trust, rather I always favor not having to trust".  Put systems in place such that you only trust when there is simply no practical structure to eliminate it.




lulz.

In all seriousness, did no one at all ask for a collection of wallet addresses used by the site?

Has no one had any form of peak at the books?

Can anyone verify at all that 4100 BTC was 'there' a week ago and has just in the last 48 hours been moved?



They are 'making money' the old fashioned way - 'so long as the discounted hypthetical future valuation' of the business is increasing, it's perfectly fine to borrow a bit here to spend a bit there.  lol.

refer Enron and HFV accounting...
www.youtube.com/watch?v=hR45ja3VjGE‎

Not to mention, consider this...

a)  If steal key to addressA with 100BTC;
b)  Send the 100BTC to addressB with 200BTC (not stolen) already in it;
c)  Then, I send you 50BTC from addressB, have you received ANY stolen coins?



They are well aware.



I am willing to bet that he has registered a DOT.COM.AU address at some point or another.  This would require an Australian Business Number and the details of these are publicly searchable www.business.gov.au

Can has D0X race? yes...  ;)

In that TF is an anon, the choices are:
a)  Become new anon (or more to another of several profiles)
b)  See what value potential value is left in the TF profile.

The choices are not mutually exclusive so why do either when can has both?

People are so stupid, he's got every chance of milking this for a double-dip mega rip!
 - security issues have been patched
 - here's partial refund 'out of my own pocket into new SUPER io.IN"
 - No competing online wallet host will dare call attention to the obvious problem lest they expose the elephant in the room
 - Coinbase will most assuredly give careful consideration to all angles and publish a article of little to nil journalistic merit but with just a hint of objectivity to disguise a paid-for promo-campaign
 - guaranteed that some people portion of people will be both stupid and lazy and end up transferring moar in.


In a way, I guess this is just standard economic Darwinism, now just accelerated to bitcoin protocol speeds.  

They stole .05 btc from me.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=328053.msg3522352#msg3522352

Please see the link above if you have any losses on inputs or CL.

While an investigation is considered, Let's account for what's been stolen and those of us who can afford it, can donate if we wish.

This is not an opportunity for accusations, are venting anger. Just facts about losses and evidence gathering.