Bitcoin Forum

so if it where to collapse is bitcoin dead, so many people are buying due to the exchange rate ? so if the dollar holds no value neither will bitcoin ?

While the dollar might be the current world reserve currency, it won't be forever. And it is not the only currency. There are things in Europe called Euros. In China there are Yuan and so on.

Where we are going we won't need bits of paper.

if dollar were to collapse, USD/BTC exchange rate would sharply rise, that's all. in no sense is bitcoin tied to USD. it'll be traded for CNY/EUR, that's all

Another method of exchange would be used...another currency, precious metal, or even a normal good.

dollar wont crash lol

everyone is thinking that, then it wont happen

If everyone is thinking that, it will collapse even faster.
Why would you hold much dollars, if you believe it will crash?

US debt is so high they can't even pay the interest on loans. Crash or default is a mathematical certainty, just a matter of time. All depends when the chinese get sick of seeing their money disappear.

I tend to agree with Peter Schiff, the dollar will invariably collapse because it's being printed like there's no tomorrow. Or if the Fed pulls a Paul Volcker and shuts off the spigot, the US (and perhaps the rest of the world) will enter a deflationary depression. (Holders of "hard assets" like gold and bitcoin should probably fear that outcome the most.) That doesn't mean the USD will automatically do a Zimbabwe and die completely, but the US could experience >>20% CPI inflation, especially if the rest of the world no longer wants all those printed dollars. And if you start WW3 to try to force the Russians or Chinese to accept USD, then we're all doomed anyway. ;D

"Everyone" in this context does not include the vast swathes of consumers who haven't the slightest interest in the financial system, and think "QE? wasn't that an ocean liner?"

In my limited time watching various markets, I've formed the opinion that they do whatever people least expect them to.

Applied to BTC, I have a horrible feeling that maybe this is as good as it gets. There will be no rocket (as everyone expects). It will not crash to zero (as everyone else expects). It will never go mainstream (because *everyone* as explained above does not knowing or care about it... "inflation is how you fill balloons right?"). So china was the last hurrah.

Enjoy your profits, thanks for playing.

I really hope I'm wrong though.

The USD WILL collapse. Then so will the Euro, the Japanese Yen, the Swiss Franc, the Canadian dollar, and the Australian dollar - to start.

This is a mathematical certainty.

Short of some sort of false flag to distract from the insolvency of the QE countries (US, Canada, Europe, etc.), there is no way to avert the collapse.

Peter Schiff is an optimist.

I guess we'll see, anything is possible with BTC. But what about Africa, India, etc? I realize 90% of us in Western Nations are such blithering idiots that we think inflation is what fills balloons, but those in places with hyper inflation (for example) are probably much more aware and more willing to adapt to this new concept. Furthermore, that still leaves 10% of non-retards in Western Nations to get this moving. China was a nice speculative pump for bitcoin, but the price doesn't have to by sky high for the concept to work - although once the concept is working, the price will be high - but based on a more solid basis than Asian (or anyones) speculation.

How does a deflationary depression = >>20% CPI.  It would be the other way around if its deflationary i.e. -20% CPI.

Kenya currency collapsed.  Look at what they're using! Bitcoin!

If the USD collapses, it will likely take the rest of the world's currencies with it.  That includes Bitcoin.  That's just part of being the worlds reserve currency.  $360 for BTC would mean what?  $10,000 BTC would mean what?  Would you give up 1BTC for $1 million? USD wouldn't be worth anything so you'd in a sense being giving your BTC away for free.

What crypto needs for success, is not the collapse of the USD but the ability to thrive next to it, so people can transition naturally without wrecking the worlds economies.  Collapse doesn't benefit anyone.  Aside from all that, I still don't believe Bitcoin is ready to fill the void. 

No need to go to Africa or India. Germans are well aware of what inflation or hyper-inflation is. It's a dreaded word in Germany, and Germany = Europe.

Awesome, I've been preaching it. Africa is ripe for BTC adoption. We need to get member of the BTC foundation to go over there and push this.



If the USD truly collapses, BTC wouldn't be measured in USD, it would probably be measured by some type of purchasing power index. However, I doubt if the USD will vanish, but I suspect collapse AS WE KNOW IT and hyper inflation is in our future. Also, the USD collapses that would be devastating to the world economy for a while, but by no means would it destroy all other currencies. It might shift power around, but to an extreme example do you think it will destroy North Korea's won? I imagine most other currencies, while affected, would survive as well.

This.

Yes,but Germany and Europe already has a powerful banking infrastructure with a invested interest not to be obsoleted. Even if there is no legal battle, they will fight to remain relevant with marketing, products, services. They will eventually lose that battle - but in Africa there doesn't even need to be a battle, bitcoin might end up becoming the natural choice. I use the telecom situation in China as an example, they skipped the land line stage and went straight to wireless - Africa is ripe for a similar skip-the-banking-credit card as payment method step.


I think we (BTC Foundation etc) should, in fact, push for adoption in Africa, it would both benefit them, and the BTC Community. It would help bring them into the modern world and international business environment. Once the rest of the world sees how great it works, it will be hard to resist. The current Western banking/government structure would be less able to destroy it, since it's clearly legitimate currencies and in widespread use elsewhere.

Africa is the beachhead.

It should be noted that the european economy is in deep shit even without the failing dollar to push it along. There are simply not enough people in the 20-30 range to pay for the retiring baby boomers, and it's their fault for not having enough kids (sub-replacement rate).

Yeah, the geniuses linked all the European economies together using the Euro, knowing that if they could get 1 or 2 large countries to fall, the rest of Europe would fall (Greece and Spain).

In times of uncertainty, Bitcoin is king.

It probably would be worse if there were enough kids, because then the environment would collapse instead (well maybe it does that anyway).

Having more kids solves all problems ::)

Last 2 guys, it's a simple mathematical problem. In Socialist Utopias the state takes from those who work and gives to those who do not. The baby boomers are retiring. They have not sired enough kids to take over the bills. This means less funding for more people, which means higher taxes and less payouts for each individual. Everyone loses. Matters of environment, ethics, lolcats and whatever else is entirely irrelevant. It's a problem that will bankrupt all of Europe even if there were no other problems, and it will take generations to fix if we started right now.

The one silver lining is that it could lead to a wider adoption of bitcoin, which could make a small group of us very wealthy and able to ditch this corner of the world.

This isn't entirely true, the production rate is higher than before, even with less people.
So if you need less people to produce more stuff, it could be possible to solve this.

Also environmental problems and population growth are strongly connected, it's creating the upper limit that will break the exponential growth if nothing else does.
You've hinted at having more kids as viable solution, which clearly isn't the case.

Since you are obviously not European I can understand that your view of Europe might be slightly skewed as is our American view.

Ok let's state the opposite in the same light as you did.

If we don't help the sick they can't work, if they don't insure themselves (since they have no work) they still need medical attention. Eventually they end up in healthcare for which they have no money. Without money they get inadequate treatment and end up crippled. When crippled they sue everyone. Money has to come somewehere so taxes go up and economy goes down.

Both systems don't work ideally but I do believe in helping your fellow country members if they need help (up to a certain level).

It's actually not. Less than half the population in my country works. Everyone else is on some form of public handouts. More importantly, we are dying. With each generation being smaller than the last and immigration ever increasing, it's just a matter of time until some of the european countries lose their native population entirely. The culture is already shot in many places.

I'm danish.

Never assume on the internet.

The US problem is even simpler and has been covered.

A big work has been released recently that shows that population growth rate was about half of economy growth rate for the last 300 years (so the other half is productivity).

Also, after overshoot comes collapse, there's no way around that.

BitCoin largely derives its value from future speculation. There is not much practical use for it ATM for most people. This speculation can span from anywhere between a few seconds to years, i.e. people selling on these pumps and people holding because they believe it will be worth $1,000 and more in the future.

I think a dollar collapse would cause a giant increase in the USD->BTC price and nothing else. Though I don't think the dollar will go just yet.

There are 3 possible outcomes:

Either the Fed never ever tapers, and keeps on financing public & private debt through QE & bailouts, and the dollar inflates to 0.

Or, the fed does taper, and the system collapses under its own weight causing huge deflation & basically financial armageddon & widespread default.

Or, the USG tries semi-shady tactics to avoid one of the above tactics, like "re-defining" the US Dollar, writing off some of its debt, or the like.

By the way, does the USG accept non-base currency (fractional reserve money) as legal tender? And if it does, what happens to that bank credit? Is it redeemed for base currency after people pay taxes? Or does the US Government have some big checking account somewhere?

+1  Thank God, I was starting to think everyone here was selfish and heartless as hell.


How does this make sense?  If the dollar is collapsed, any "increase in the USD->BTC price" is a decrease in the value of BTC.  As I stated earlier, a dollar collapse would render USD worthless, thus ANY price paid in USD -> BTC would be giving up BTC for free.