Bitcoin Forum

https://www.scirra.com/blog/tom/4/bitcoins-uk-future-looks-bleak

Thanks for a great article.
The UK is a backward place for Bitcoin now. But this really points out the importance of decentralised exchange through an agreed API/surface across coins and currencies.

Honourable mention for bitbargain UK.

Let's not forget that any remittance service connecting to Bitcoin has been shutdown - Transferwise and Currencyfair.
Also this article is pointing out Freedom of Information request refusals from all parties requested - this is also suspicious to my mind.
Finally there is the aspect that Bitcoin can be less anonymous than banking in some cases and the FBI have used this to advantage.

This is shades of capital controls. While it is true that no one single action can prove conclusively that it is not simply concern for money laundering I have seen enough in other areas such as hedge funds, forex, gold, latvia to see that things are in place for the locks to come down should they need to ready for a Cyprus bank holiday.

Although VAT is unfortunate and unfair, it's a well trodden path.

The blockade was a great motivation for me to move financially away from the UK. I could be thanking that action if (when?) the worst fears come to fruition.

At the end of the day, try to take the global view. People from China to Brazil are getting in on the revolution, that isn't going to change. If London is left behind it's really just one city in many, one increasingly less significant city. The once great London now begging to host Chinas currency yet there's no bitcoin exchange...

Stay on the sidelines and places such as China who don't have to worry so much about capital flight, take over.

It's just getting interesting!

Reading the article, I would say the future of UK banks looks bleak  8)

Great article, food for thought. It used to be a lot easier to buy/sell BTC in the UK than it is now, I can understand how hard it would be to set up a viable BTC-based business. Pretty cool that the author got a reply from Vince Cable though!

That is definitely true!   

I can imagine the UK press saying that it is like the euro by the back door!  Save the pound!

What would be the process/taxes involved in cashing out a large some of BTC to sterling?

There is also Coinfloor trying to get off the ground in the UK.

Hopefully they can navigate all the roadblocks.

Yeah...Do you realize that coinfloor is a scam? Do you know who is actually creator of coinfloor.
Just check this forum and stay away from them.

Hopefully this will become a relevant question to quite a few people in the next few years. I have heard that Germany does not tax (CGT) bitcoins if they are held for over a year. Perhaps they could become resident there before cashin out.

I've been looking through the forum and can't find anything that suggest they are a scam.

Is there any proof about that?  ???

Fucking fantastic, I have been trying to get information about Bitcoin in the UK for weeks now, I'll be needing this when I talk to some people, thank you.

I've cashed a few thousand here or there, SEPA transfers out of Gox in euro, and more recently a SEPA transfer out of bitstamp in USD.

I'm planning on moving anyway. If BTC gets big, that will just be one more motivation to do so.

Interesting post, thank you for all the details.
I wrote to my MP (Deputy PM Nick Clegg) earlier in the year to ask him to support the growth of Bitcoins and other crypto-currencies. If a large western government actually supports the Bitcoin currency and the companies working in this area, they are likely to see investment £,€,$ and new tech companies trickling and then hopefully pouring into the country. It was not the best letter ever as I also raised a couple of local issues so may have diluted my argument.

Is there anything more I and others could do, to help press the issue?

Germany, a somewhat larger western european economy, is fairly constructive about bitcoins

Why not also the UK?

This just classically reinforces my opinion that the UK is filled with wankers :(

No worries , US gov will not far behind on this ::)

United States Senate will meet on November 18 to investigate bitcoin. 

http://www.coindesk.com/us-homeland-security-committee-explore-bitcoins-potential-18th-nov-hearing/ (http://www.coindesk.com/us-homeland-security-committee-explore-bitcoins-potential-18th-nov-hearing/)

I wonder if they will listen much to what the UK and German governments have determined? I predict that negative findings on bitcoin by this committee will only increase its value.  The current market is largely made of anarcho-capitalists--they'll march in the exact opposite direction that the gov points every time, and it might also lead to fears that they will become harder to acquire.  So hoarding, massive buy-ups, etc.   And I suggest positive findings will do the same thing--potentially open the cryptocurrency market to skeptics and 2nd tier adopters. 

The only thing I think they'll do is nothing. Because they're numbskulls and they can't agree on anything.  I imagine they will just state what has already been said by the IRS, FinCEN, and various banking experts, which is basically: "It looks like it might be dangerous but we don't really get it so let's continue to watch." 

Read this comment:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=320840.msg3450223#msg3450223 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=320840.msg3450223#msg3450223)

UK's loose regulation, despite Coinfloor's snail pace attempts to do Anti-money laundering, is supposed to encourage micro transaction startups.

Your problem seems to be the banks and may require reporting to the EU Competition Commission...

"A cartel is a group of similar, independent companies which join together to fix prices, to limit production or to share markets or customers between them."

http://ec.europa.eu/competition/cartels/overview/index_en.html

What confuses me about the poor bitcoin situation in the UK is that the current government seems intent on the UK existing as some sort of tax haven.  

I also don't understand how they can claim someone is adding value to a bitcoin simply by transferring it to someone.

Has anybody here in the UK tried opening an offshore bank account? Wondering how easy it is.

As long as you report how much you earn and pay your taxes I don't think it bothers them in the slightest, you'll see many banks in the UK offering offshore options, I haven't tried opening an account yet though but I do plan to just so if we have a bank run I'll still be able to use my money.

I have. You need proof of id (like a passport) and proof of address. You also need a reference from a professional that states you are of good character. It's not to difficult just frustratingly time consuming.

As the UK continues its trend and sinks further into socialist/kleptocratic poverty, expect this to get more difficult.

So, with an offshore account you only need to declare a capital gain when you move the money from it, into the UK? That would be transferring into your UK account or even technically spending with an offshore debit card??

Excellent article and as you say the future looks bleak.

However while I can still make SEPA transfers to and from exchanges I see no reason to get left behind on an individual level. If BTC does start getting the nod of approval from other countries around the world then expect to see furious backtracking.

The part about preventing crime is laughable when you look at banks past records.

funny that banks, which are biggest crime centers telling us what is crime and what is money laundering. if u watch video flying arround this forum about banks, goverments and money u will understand why UK blocking so much bitcoin raise. they just know they will fail and one day they will have no option to accept it. when regulations about btc will show on horizon that will be the time when game will change to serious shit.

soon goverment will try something to stop, block or regulate btc world.

Can't read the link - so I may be talking out of turn, but personally I have found getting into bitcoin ok - troublesome, but ok.

There is one exchange with a uk bank account - pricey but fast and taking uk bank transfers:

velaexchange.co.uk

I only use this as I can't get money to Bitstamp fast now - Transferwise won't do BTC-linked transfers. I used to use OKPay to get into Mt Gox but that's gone as an option too.

Sepa to Bitstamp works - it's just slow :(

Once you do have coins, then you can get onto Mt Gox and all exchanges (I am on Stamp and Gox)

Bitstamp is the best bet for European exchanges, but I wouldn't keep too much on any one exchange, you never know!

The UK will come around eventually - London will want its cut when they see the money flying in.

For now - just get in and enjoy the ride...?

Stumbled on the UK FOI request here:
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/bitcoin_minutes_3#incoming-443667

And the earlier USA one to compare:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=103276.20

"Bitcoin themselves are not a currency and therefore are
outside of the FCA’s regulatory remit"
^ this was their view... however... their view can change as we infer from the next section....

"Confidential information for these purposes is defined as non-public and
non-anonymised information which relates to the business or other affairs
of any person (without their consent) and which was received by the FCA
for the purposes of, or in the discharge of, any of its functions under
FSMA and which is not in the public domain."

"disclosure of the material requested would be likely to prejudice
the United Kingdom’s relations with another State"

^ The UK is probably working with the USA on this. The UK will probably follow whatever decision the USA takes. The UK did not see Bitcoin as a currency but if the USA does they will probably copy that stance.
 All guesses, but better than nothing.

If this is smoke and mirrors,
the FOI isn't always enforced so well. The key would be to leak info showing that it's flaunted to remind. An example of another fail:
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/what_was_your_bas_observer_obser#outgoing-204061

Looking at requests in general you see more refusals around financial subjects. The key could be to not ask directly but to investigate something around the subject and hope they mess up with info that allows us to confer the facts. We could divide requests up separately and cross-corrolate.

Remember, these are FSA requests, now it's renamed as the FCA.

Exactly right

Libor rigging, forex rigging, rbs pushing businesses to the wall to grab their assetts.

Who trusts banks nowadays, they are a neccessary evil.  ;) as soon as we remove the necessary part the system will improve.