Bitcoin Forum

Old phone card machines could be repurposed to dispense bit bills and or redeemable coin tickets. Bit Bills have the problem of a large upfront liability kinda kill your cash flow, as-well as being pegged to a exact denom. It would be much cheaper to dispense tickets with qrcodes that take you to a site that you enter a receiving address, There by redeeming the ticket, convert $20 to x BTC at current market value. This would be cheaper as you would only have to have the number of coins on hand to get thru x days. I guess these could also be used with off the grid pre-generated cards (Savings Account Cards).

A custom kiosk could be built that you pump cash into and flash it a qrcode for it to send the coins to. This would also help to get around the whole "how do I buy bit coins for the casual coiner". I wonder if mezegrill would buy one of these kiosks. This type of machine would not even need to be serviced except to pick up the cash. Maybe the kiosks could be built with minner GPU for the high scale model.

In terms of hardware, I think that the only difference between your proposed kiosk that you flash a QR code at vs. any other network-connected cash-accepting kiosk would be the need for an appropriate camera to look at the QR code... in other words, not much difference! The camera might double as a security camera. Maybe some kiosk designs already have a suitable camera in place for security?

I like where your head is at.
I've been thinking a bit about this lately.  I have a few vending machines.  I think this company even has a live linux internet kiosk disk, but I can't find it on their website anymore.  Anyway id don't think they left it open source.  http://www.weavefuture.com/  will be fun to hack around with though.

also found this.
http://peterkropf.com/archives/213

I just got a mental image of bums huddling around a BTC kiosk at night for warmth.  :D

Now that's killer funny! 8^)

This is nothing but a pipe dream. Think of the infrastructure needed to build, distribute, maintain and keep records on a number of machines that would actually reach a useful number of people. Armored cars to pick up the cash and load the change dispensers, the cards themselves would be expensive to produce if they were counterfeit resistant...that's a lot of man-hours and a lot of equipment costs for exactly what benefit? It needs to be profitable for anyone to be interested in funding it.

Step 1: Sink millions and millions of dollars into a BTC vending machine infrastructure
Step 2: ???
Step 3: Bankruptcy

You could also use Near Field Communication (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near_field_communication) instead of QR codes to exchange Bitcoin addresses.

There's already support for it in the Bitcoin wallet for android. (source (http://code.google.com/p/bitcoin-wallet/source/browse/trunk/README#72))




I would agree, but somehow people are making money off of selling gold in a vending machine, which sounds like a much worse idea to me...

Just propose it to the VC guy, take your cut and haul ass!

You forget that the only thing that will entice a company into doing this is profit. Where is the profit in your model? That was my point...no one is going to sink millions into this with no end game other than your convenience.

$20 - $18 = $2 profit per transaction.

10% fees? Why would anyone use it? This is something that might have a purpose in fifty years, but to be discussing it seriously today is just a joke. Unless it is deployed on an ATM scale, it is hardly a step up in convenience. So that 10K for equipment becomes that times 3000, plus the army of trucks to maintain them and the army of officeworkers to manage them.

Gumballs have a use and an incredibly low overhead...right now, a bitcoin vending machine has neither.

More viable would be a simple vending machine that dispensed junk food and other snacks for bitcoins. A lot cheaper to maintain and service than cash based ones. Could probably offer the same goodies at a much lower price too and still be competetive.

Crappy little ATMs in gas stations turn profit the same way: by charging an exorbitant fee in exchange for getting money Right Now. A gas station ATM might charge $2.50 for a $20 withdrawal.

I agree that it makes little to no sense to stick a BTC kiosk into a random gas station yet, but a brick and mortar shop that chooses to accept BTC might also choose to stick a BTC purchasing kiosk in their lobby.

This seems to me like a concept that could be tried out at a small number of locations (even a single location) for prototyping and proof of concept purposes, and then naturally scale up with BTC acceptance.

Running a squadron of armored cars to service the machines would indeed be expensive. However, unlike ATMs that need to be loaded up with new cash, these machines would only need cash taken out. The machine could be bought by the proprietor of the store where it's installed, and then it's owner can periodically unload the deposited cash and buy more BTC to be "dispensed" on some suitable exchange. The machine sellers make their money by selling the machine, and the store owners make their money by selling BTC at a markup. No army of armored truck drivers is needed, because the machine owner teaks out the money and keeps it.

The BTC markup might be a flat fee, which people are already accustomed to at ATMs. Or it might be a percentage. It might be an explicit fee, or it might be hidden in the machine's cash to BTC exchange rate. That exchange rate might be based on live market data, or it might be adjusted less frequently with a proportionately larger markup to cover market variations. Those are implementation details that would need to be worked out, and different machine vendors/owners might take different approaches. The core of the idea remains that it would provide an easier way for a random person to turn cash into BTC, and the machine vendors would presumably provide a product and/or service to make it easier for a random store owner to sell BTC without being an expert in the field.

One of the neat things about this idea is that it could be tried out on a vey small scale... even at a single BTC-accepting business. Compare this to something like ASIC mining hardware (another topic that interests me): Both ideas make sense as things that will be nearly inevitable if and when BTC use grows the way that we want and expect it to. However, the up-front development cost to put the first BTC-selling kiosk in place should be at least an order of magnitude lower than the cost of making that first mining ASIC.

Regarding BTC accepting junk food machines, the biggest problem I see to be solved is how to make sure the user really pays for their candy bar without making them wait 10 minutes for a confirmation before the bar gets dispensed. That's a general hurdle for BTC use that needs to be solved well. Once that problem is solved, I can easily imagine BTC-accepting vending machines sprouting up in places like college campuses, particularly around EE/CS buildings or in dorms at technical schools. Some enterprising student at a place like Caltech or MIT will surely make a BTC-accepting vending machine for their dorm, if it hasn't already been done.

I think that'll make it hard to get UL listing for them.  :P

...once again, relying on people to pay a premium to change their US dollars into bitcoin to spend them on something they could have paid for in US dollars. Hey, I am all for bitcoin, but this business model is fucking retarded.

What about a btc bank card that all you have to do is swipe your card and your account comes up?

Since all the transaction and transfers are made inside the btc bank, no btc can be lost if you lose your card. btc cards can be replaced.

Since all the transaction and transfers are made inside the btc bank, the transaction is instant and you don't have to wait for confirmation.

Like credit cards, the merchant will pay the transaction fees, the customer will just pay cost of whatever they're buying.




Keep it simple, stupid.

You say you are all for bitcoin, but see no reason why people would spend bitcoins instead of dollars, or why they would use a bitcoin atm/kiosk.  Maybe they want to buy bitcoins and don't have a bank account to use with an exchange site, or don't have internet access or know how to use mtgox.  Maybe they want to buy something online with bitcoin they can't get locally with dollars.   Maybe they are migrant workers and need to send money back home to their country.  Maybe they obtained some cash they want to save but would prefer not to deposit at a bank.   I can think of many reasons for bitcoin kiosks, I love this idea.

You are delusional if you think there is any reason for the layman to use bitcoin at this stage of the game. Why pay a tax to deal in volatility? Even with an abundance of vendors dealing in bitcoin, why would you pay a two dollar (or any) service fee to change your perfectly good USD into BTC in order to buy that ice cream cone? For these to become a success, local currencies would have to crumble.

I personally think it would be immoral to encourage an impoverished migrant worker to stake their earnings on currency that might bottom out tomorrow. They work too hard for that kind of bullshit.

Or to pay workers (over the $600 limit), migrants or otherwise, so there's less paperwork for the IRS (the kind folks there deserve a break, too).

Or at a flea market.

Or at any large event where pickpockets are known to lurk.

Bitcoin: Easy to Get--Hard to Take

When i read the thread title i thought people were gonna have to type their address to withdraw BTC; carrying around a QR code of your own address to show when you wanna receive money is indeed much better than having to type the address manually.

totally blown away I was able to find this file this way, but here is the linux live kiosk I mentioned earlier.

http://www.findthatfile.com/search-519917-hISO/software-tools-download-weavefuture-internet-kiosk-browser-linux-live-cd-iso.htm

Maybe we can open the hood and see what we can use.

I have one of these.

http://www.weavefuture.com/coin_acceptor_ak5_coin_op_for_kiosk.htm

I know it's just for coins, but I'm pretty sure the protocol is the same as the bill acceptor.

I think this is a necessary evolution.

I'll start workin on it.

Very cool!

That coming from the relatively rich asshole with access to a computer and enough disposable income to give a flying fuck about bitcoin. Not everyone has thousands of dollars to gamble with. I indeed live in America, and I see my neighbors losing their houses and moving shit into an RV. I bet they are raging to get at that bitcoin vending machine so they can get some btc for...what exactly?

As far as the morality of seeking out a better life, I am sure glad my great grandparents made the trek, otherwise I'd be in norway listening to death metal and burning down historic churches with the other bored youth. I think they were glad too. It's hardly a basis for comparison.

I don't think novelty bitcoin can support a networked and maintained bitcoin atm. We are not talking about some low overhead machine that smashes pennies to have a picture of the golden gate bridge on them.

Once again, I am all for bitcoin, but it would help if the community was a bit more realistic about its implementation and adoption.

perhaps your great grandchildren will surely be glad you helped pave the way for the switch from fiat debt-based currency to bitcoin.  Maybe they will be happy to have true individual monetary freedom. 

You won't reach a lofty goal by aiming into the ground, I say aim as high as you can.

Ideas like these are inspiration to other efforts, and I believe in being cautiously optimistic. You can be killed by leaving your house and crossing the street, yet we accept that risk (and many others) and go on with our lives.

It comes down to how much effort we are willing to invest that will dictate whether bitcoin survives and flourishes. Not trying is simply a death sentence.

RandyFolds, If you think that it's a bad idea, then don't participate. Whether you choose to participate or not, skip the hostility. Calling the idea "fucking retarded" and calling other forum members "asshole" isn't helpful, even if it is true in your opinion.

Anyone with the resources to implement this could benefit the community in an infinitely more productive manner by contributing to development, not some wonky re-make of the wheel.

I say if you just keep aiming higher, eventually you're pointing at the ground again.

Twenty some years ago, I had a brilliant idea and shared it to only to have a RandyFold type guy shoot holes in. Shortly thereafter, my idea was manifested and...you know the rest of the story.

A year ago, I had a neighbor who lost his home shortly after his RV was repossessed--FIRST. My other neighbor was also in bad shape. Lucky for him he was able to get himself out of it. He never owned an RV or fancy new cars--only purchased used, quality rides.

Bitcoin: For Everyone but the RandyFold Types

Bada-bing!

I have been shot down many times and then a few years later the same people I was shot down by are doing almost exactly what I proposed.

I'll bet RF is working on a kiosk and wants desperately to get it out before any one else. 8^)

Well if you do your business anything like what you've done with tradehill, that is, airing things out on a public forum and making a bunch of busy people pretend they give a fuck about your $200 investment in bitcoin, than I am not at all surprised that someone stole your ideas. Private things should happen behind closed doors.

I will tell you that I am not interested in the least at throwing good money at a solution without a problem, and neither is anyone with the financial means to make this happen. Why doesn't the OP buy his kiosk and figure out where to put it and prove me wrong? I bet 100BTC (more than the cost of the kiosk) that it will fail to turn a profit in 6 months, which is a pretty fair timeframe to expect a return.


Being realistic is not being a naysayer or enemy of bitcoin. Everyone bitches about this troll's nest attitude of the average forum user and then attack irrelevant points and shout troll when someone chooses to look at things realistically.

Solid proof you know very little about running an actul business.

And surprisingly enough, here I am, proprietor of my very own LLC, paying the bills and everything. You miss so much when you judge through the interlink.

None of my returns extend past 60 days. Obviously this isn't a valid business model for everything, that's why I tripled it for the bet. C'mon...the cost is only a thousand dollars, right? Thats only five hundred people using it, which is a little over two a day. Who wants to take my 100BTC if this is such a great idea?

Yeah that's true, I forgot, you're a billionaire genius. Good day.

"...throwing good money at a solution without a problem, and neither is anyone with the financial means to make this happen."

I always say the best way to succeed in a small business is to find/create a niche, then fill it, yourself. Here's a guy who did just that and, in your wildest dreams, if he told you what he planned on doing, you would've told him that it would fail within six months. No one in their right mine would go to a shop that sells only...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPbh6Ru7VVM (watch the whole video--many of his thoughts can easily be carried over to the Bitcoin phenomenon). You could say he threw good money at a solution for a problem the general public didn't know existed--until he built it. There are easily 10,000+ more examples of businesses that did the same thing.

As far as a kiosk for Bitcoin--I see it as a viable service. The OP put this idea out into the wild, a trial balloon, so to speak, to be kicked around a bit. Surely, not to be kicked to the curb by a runaway sock(head).

Bitcoin: For Ideas That Matter

Ok side note, so I watched the video, and thought wow that's pretty cool.  I want a soda.  And I don't even like soda.  So I checked out his website and was shocked to find out he's right down the street from my house.  2 minute drive.  So I went there and got some of the Curiosity Cola, a Vanilla soda and a sandwich.  The guy was there and is now one of may favorite people.  Get this, he goes to leave and get's into his car and ...wait for it.....it's a fucking Delorian. Anyway, if I could drive to my local hackerspace and buy or sell btc for cash via atm instead of any online exchange I would drive an hour each way in a heartbeat.  Ooh I just thought of something.  What if the atm could act as a mtgox/online exchange terminal.  You put in cash and name your price and btc are sent to you when the order is filled or you get your cash back by redeeming a voucher whenever you want minus fee.  Or the other way around, you send bitcoins and you come back and redeem them for cash when your order is filled.  Not difficult to do.  Any thoughts??? besides Randyfolds

This is fucking hilarious. I know this guy personally. His shop is three blocks from my house. You couldn't have picked a better niche market, plus they have delicious sandwiches. The owner used to be morbidly obese and got gastric bypass surgery.

BTW, his store has been there for years and years and has an international following. Good luck finding that with one bitcoin ATM.

ne1, apparently we're neighbors.

I wasn't offering to fund it. I was offering to short the BTC ATM market. Very different.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqpSZDMu5jY

I can imagine an idea like this in the future, everyone walking up to machines and being dispensed Bitcoins.
Cool idea but how would it catch on in today's society?

Interesting to think about anyway  ;D