Bitcoin Forum

I got a mail from coinsecure claiming that somebody(lol) stole(XD) their bitcoins.
Seriously coinsecure?
Here, read it:
https://i.imgur.com/can4IDz.png

Is this how you guys are going to roll after your bank account suspension?
If you are going to use this an excuse to hold user's funds, then this isn't going to be a very good news for the indian bitcoin community.
GGWP!
Disappointed.

WTF, they were not using multi sign wallet. This is really big set back. How any company can trust with all their funds with only 1 person.

FIR copy below...

https://coinsecure.in/FIR.jpg

Is Dr. Amitabh Saxena = https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=72118 ?

Am going to try and answer as much as possible..

All INR funds are safe and we will setup a withdrawal form over the next few days.
Indemnification of all users Crypto funds are being discussed, but will be indemnified by company funds even if we fail to recover funds from  this incident.
We are following every procedure possible to make this seamless for our users and we will be posting more frequent updates as we get more information.

We still maintain our banking relationships and have never maintained a fractional system on coinsecure, so, all fiat funds were always safe and withdraw-able.

We will publish more information on this incident as soon as we are able to get more information from formal and informal investigative companies.

Coinsecure is not shutting down. We are going to work our way through this and defend this technology that we have lived and breathed for.

I will try as much to answer any questions, but will have delays as we are all sunk into this compromise.

Yup, this is most likely docs id.

This is terrific news , as far i knew CS one of the trusted among the Indian BTC Community and i hope Benson make sure that status stays .. :/

It looks like the keys were with Amit Kalra as well as Amitabh Saxena. Amitabh must have been trusted enough to have all the keys at one place even if it was a multi-sig wallet.


The explanations regarding fiat or fractional reserves should be comforting for those who would fear that coinsecure too will shutdown like the other scams going around.


You guys are among the first adopters in India. This incident confirms again that having your funds on an exchange is still not a good idea. The sincerity not withstanding, the lack of professionalism that resulted in this is still worrisome. Frankly, we'd expect better from someone who has cut his teeth on the forum through the initial years.

The decision to indemnify crypto funds, if taken, would be a landmark for coinsecure. It'll take a lot of heart and I think is the only way you can win back trust of the community and really mean those words when you say "defend this technology that we have lived and breathed for".

If the users are left to fend for themselves, then these will just be hollow politician words that we in India, nowadays, are finding it ever so easy to throw at each other.

Some questions:
Can you provide any details about how the keys were being stored?
How long has Amitabh been out of touch with coinsecure now?

I earlier used Unocoin, but due to better service I moved to Coinsecure. And since last few years I have been using coinsecure only.

That being said, every time I had a trouble, it was solved within 1 or 2 day at max, unless it was a holiday. So, I still believe in Coinsecure.

Though, giving main private key (or all the private key of a multi sig) to a single person was a foolish idea though.

Anyways, it was a nice move to ask to seize his passport, so that he does not leave the country.

I hope these things get's solved as soon as possible and coinsecure returns to it's former glory.

The very news that your offline storage unencrypted in the hands of a person itself is a big problem.

you must have had a technology with encrypts everything, its like kids handling stuff

Thats why we never should hold our coins in shitty exchange be your own boss buy a ledzer and store all crypto there.

Can you suggest some wallets where we can hold the private keys with us ?
Other than the physical/hardware wallets - Where I can move around/transfer the bitcoins fasters  ?

After the coinsecure incident , I have become more paranoid about the holdings.

Very disappointing to see this after major setback caused by RBI. All we can hope to do is to watch the address to which all the BTC was transferred and see if it gets cashed out from any major exchanges. Even then I see very little chance of users getting their coins back.

Hard to believe that someone would lose 19 crore worth crypto by trying to extract BTG. nobody in their right mind would take such a thing lightly and do it. But, lets not jump to any conclusions right now and see how coinsecure deals with this situation.. I really hope people get their coins back.



You can install electrum if you don't want to deal with the trouble of running a full node on your pc or laptop. But, remember to keep the pc away from any kind of exposure to hackers. Our ISPs do very little to take care of security, it all depends how secure (no pun intended) you keep your wallet.

Cool thanks for the info.

If u are just HODLing and dont want to trade everyday, I'd suggest Paper Wallet. Run https://www.bitaddress.org offline and write down the private keys on paper. Only have the bitcoin addresses in your computer and transfer all your funds over there.

I am shocked but not surprised.After the ban I was discussing with my friend about how exchanges will get hacked now haha
But we can't be sure of anything yet.Maybe this is real, maybe not.
Either way, all that matters is wheter they are going to pay back its user's or not.Gonna keep an eye on this thread and see whats gonna happen now.
Good luck benson, FIGHTO!

This is a really unfortunate situation and the company is filing a case against one of the owner, i would like to see this exchange in the future as this is my favorite exchange and when can we expect to see coinsecure back in action.

The reason for the hack is the funny bit though,  Amitabh Saxena who holds the private keys was trying to distribute bitcoin gold for the users and somehow they got attacked. No wonder the team has filed a complaint against the owner.

Are you sure that allowing for withdrawal of fiat funds is the right approach to be followed?

Sorry to bring up an extreme scenario - but what happens in the case of a liquidation? All creditors of Coinsecure (i.e. customers) should have equal access to the left over assets. It shouldn't matter whether customers have stored assets in the form of bitcoins or fiat, and what is the form of assets which have been stolen.

The above approach is what has been followed in the case of other hacks - including Bitfinex.

If Coinsecure is able to absorb the loss, then the approach followed really does not matter.

Here is the latest on this story:

https://news.bitcoin.com/coinsecure-announces-repayment-plan-bounty-stolen-bitcoins/

may be this hack is real because transfers are in small amounts .. seems like attacked

Read here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3314633.0

If it was a hack, transfers would have done in minutes or hours and mixed within 24 hours, last transfer from so called hacker's wallet 139+ BTC on 16 April 2018. 8 days to transfer BTC from first address.
Hacker and Coinsecure+Cyber Cell playing Hide n Seek?

It is obvious that if the hackers have done so then the transactions would have been very fast and a huge amount would have been transfered in a very short time period.

I still have the trust with coinsecure. I wish them best of luck and recover soon.

"How safe is your money with crypto exchanges"    Article in mint today - after the coin"secure" heist.

https://www.livemint.com/Money/dhe9IbsAGWqwWpc75A2VfM/How-safe-is-your-money-with-crypto-exchanges.html

for the fellow users, they'd at this moment be happy enough if they can get funds out in ANY form.

People won't be really concerned about getting INR for their BTC, but question is when will they really get their money and if they ll even get it or not.

I remember going to the print contractor just below coinsecure office where they were getting ads , papers and stuff printed, sad to see what has now happened to the company.
Any chances of bounce back?

I would be happy if i get my funds back in any form either BTC or Fiat (INR), but refund in BTC must be full balance or refund in INR must be at the rate of BTC/INR on the day of refund, not at the rate of 9th April.

My BTC at Coinsecure was since BTC price >1000000INR so if i get refund in INR at current rate then I can buy again BTC from that money and store somewhere else until i get my price.

If they refund 10% of BTC balance in BTC and rest 90% in INR as of rate on 9th April 2018, then it would >60% loss for me.

There must be some Coinsecure users who have bought BTCs at the rate of >1300000INR also, if they get refunded 90% of BTC balance in INR at the rate of 9th April it would be >70% loss to them, i don't think any of Coinsecure users would like to get refunded BTC balance in INR at the rate they have locked.

The decision/idea of refunding back BTC balance in INR at the rate they locked is totally insane, looks like they have pocketed enough money and up to quit business.

Who will use Coinsecure if they make innocent users pay for mistake/scam done by their own?

If Coinsecure wants to stay in Indian Crypto Market, they have to make full refund to the users, else they'll be off the Crypto Game in India.

if Coinsecure has/is arranging funds for the BTC stolen then they can and must buy BTC now and reimburse to us as soon as they can.

10% BTC is a laugh on our face IMO

Even if They give INR immediately then at least we can buy BTC at current rate and suffer less loss and looks somewhat justified.

What use will be INR if it reaches us much later when BTC rate would be higher like last year rally.

This is just a hack drama to take our BTC at low rate, everyone knows BTC price likely to hit $50k by end of this year, They know it well and want to make huge profit from our BTC.

Don't let them do that, all coinsecure active users should write to them, those who living in Delhi or around should visit their office regarding this.

If they do not pay back BTC balance 100% in BTC or INR at the rate of the day they refund then all should file complaint against Coinsecure as fraudulent at local police or consult lawyer/consumer court lawyer regarding this.

What if the BTC prices go down in 3 months ? Say 50% of today's value ? Will you be still wanting it in BTC from coinsecure ?

Yes, I surely don't mind having BTC in hand.

Of course even if BTC price down to 50%, i would still want BTC for my BTC balance at Coinsecure.

Everyone knows ? How do you know it will hit $50k by the end of this year?

Remember -
"nobody knows if it is gonna go up, down, sideways or in fucking circles, least of all brokers, right?"

BTC price up over 50% since 9th April 2018.
Do you have BTC with Coinsecure.in?
Those who bought BTC >1000000INR price and if refunded 90% of BTC balance in INR at rate of 9th April = >400000INR/BTC, they will lose over 70%, if they go buy BTC with refunded INR they will only get half of their BTC balance they had with Coinsecure.
Are you working for Coinsecure?
Google BTC price end of this year predictions by experts, it's likely to hit $50k.
Who will pay Coinsecure users loses caused by a bloody so called computer scientist's mistake or exit scam plan of Coinsecure?
they haven't updated detailed hack story too.
I have spoken to my lawyer, if they don't refund in full I can file case as fraud against them.

If I don't get full refund in BTC I will report FIR at local police and will file a case against Coinsecure to Cyber Crime Control and Consumer Protection.

Currently there is no rules for Bitcion Altcoins, but Bitcoins Altcoins are digital assets and stealing or taking away any assets by tricking or cheating is an offence by law according to Indian Penal Code (IPC) Section:420. Indian Penal Code (IPC) Section:415, Section:420, Section:421, Section:422, Section:423, Section:424, Section:425 will be applied in such cases.

Whether it reaches 50k or not.They should return what they owe! They owe the user's bitcoins!
WhyTF would they refund back in fiat? MAKES NO SENSE!

BITCOINS AND FIATS ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.IF THEY WANT TO RETURN FIAT THEN IT SHOULDN'T BE VIA A LOCKED PRICE.The day they start refunding, thats the price they should use for conversion and not from the day of the hack.

F*#KING LOSERS.F*#K YOU COINSECURE. THANKS FOR RUINING THE IMAGE. C**TS!

 

People does anyone has any update from the CoinSecure team as to when will the refund process start other than the information hosted on the homepage? Has anyone yet visited their office after the theft / or spoken to them on call?

Its very difficult to say at what price they should start refunding the fiat if they are not paying btc for the lost btc. I believe there should be some average price that should be paid.

But whatever it is, priority should be to get people their money fast into their pockets, giving false promises to the people is no solution.


They won't tell much except for the frequent update about the happening via email and on site. All they want to tell is made public via emails and on site.

Has claims process started? Has anyone received any refunds till now? What is the last email update from them,?

Yesterday received reply to my support email as below.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kavitha (Secure Bitcoin Traders Pvt. Ltd.)

May 1, 6:29 PM IST

Hi,

When investigations are underway, we don't have much of a say and do need permissions from the authorities to start the compensation process, which we are yet to receive. We will update you when we have definite dates around the start of the process

Please do bear with us as we are working on multiple fronts to resolve the issues at the earliest.
Warm Regards,
Kavitha
Team Coinsecure

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think we users should start king actions against Coinsecure as soon as possible.
Bitcoin is a digital asset and it has economical value, any assets which has economical value is considered as concept of property by private law and penal code.
We would not take them our assets which has good current economical value and it will have even more value in future.
An assets which has no economical value but has only sentimental value is considered as concept of property in penal code but not considered as concept of property in private law.
While Bitcoin has economical value so Bitcoin is concept of property in penal code and in private law as well.
So Coinsecure can not just pay anything as compensation and lift their hands saying that there is no law for bitcoin in India and Bitcoin is not legalized in India.
There is the law for assets which has economical and sentimental value or only sentimental value whether it's physical or digital assets.
Coinsecure team trying to fool users, they came up with fake hack story and now refund of BTC with 10% in BTC and 90% in INR at price of 9th April.
They think there is no law or no legalization of Bitcoin in India can give them an ease of stealing users money.
Do they know what is concept of property in Indian Private Law and in Indian Penal Code?

I hope Venezuela reads this before giving their money to coinsecure.

Is their situation so bad that they had to scrape the bottom of the barrel?

I Agree my point is also same

Does anyone have any update on this?Benson is offline ever since the hack.The last update from coinsecure was on 29th April.
AFAIK, no one has got the money back(neither fiat nor BTC).

I did not see any updates after 29th April.  I see that benson samuel's account have changed password recently (may not mean anything, but just a detail to keep in mind).

Why don't coinsecure team consider getting help from Amazon, they have recently got their patent approved, which helps to identify BTC address owners and handover information to law enforcement.

Do you really believe such wonderful algorithms or methods are there, which would reveal the identity of Bitcoin address' owner? That would solve half the hacking / ransomware problems in the world.

I don't really know, I am not familiar with programming, even though i tried to learn. so you are saying it is a hoax? I saw multiple news articles about it and thought it was true.

Looks like game over for CS , Benson seems demoted from Moderator position . Wow !!

No idea about the amazon thing.But I know one thing for sure:


Lets hope that neophyte Indian bitcoiners will learn from this and won't use exchanges as wallets.

Saw this over at the discussion (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3314633.0;all)

Where is the refund update and Benson Samuel ?

 >:( :o :o :o ::) ::) ::) ??? ??? ??? ???

There could be some leakage of information depending on the way people use Bitcoin addresses. But use your common sense and think why nobody knows who Satoshi is. Bear in mind that the early block rewards probably went to Satoshi

There is another way around if the attacker does some silly mistakes, if the attacker somehow identifies one of his wallet and even though he is using a proxy and he is using the social media accounts using the same proxy, then he is traceable and for that to happen he needs to do a series of blunders.
The ransomware coins cannot be used, if they move the coins to other exchanges it will be confiscated, it was just a dumb move by the hackers. :D

Heard of Bitcoin mixers?

:D

If you are so attached to cloud mining then why dont you just opt for only simple mining service?

I think it will be completed by June end and for that they have come up with a procedure that you need to fill the form and submit it via courier . It will require you valid identify proof as well. Check out their website for more information and do it accordingly.

Do you really think that they will accept these funds when they literally know that will end their business, you can mix the coins but do you think it will magically vanish from the blockchain. I am sure investigators will be monitoring the wallets and if that coin starts moving, those wallets will be identified and the coins that gets out will be tracked, where ever it goes there are eyes on those funds. :P Ross William Ulbricht could have done that, how do you think he got caught.

You should do a bit more reading about the Ulbricht case. He didn't get caught because of blockchain evidence. The coins won't magically vanish from the blockchain, but you will find it impossible to unravel the links. Bitcoin mixers are a flourishing business.

It's not impossible, but just very difficult.

Any coinsecure user who can update us with whats going on? Have they started refunding or not?I can't see any update on the website.They seem pretty much dead to me, in beginning they said they were going to revive the company lol

Not sure if Iam jumping the gun, but none of the BTC service providers ( including exchanges) which were hacked have refunded the user's money in the past . The closest any one has refunded user money was nicehash  ( which has given approximately 50% of the user money till date - thats almost after 7 months ) and is still in the process of refunding the user money that was hacked.

Regarding coinsecure, am not sure about their plans of refund - whether its a phased refund or account-wise. At the moment, they dont seem to have a plan ( or atleast a published plan )

Where should I put my coins to make them safe, as exchange security may get compromised.

Try to store large amount of coins in the form of paperwallet (You can generate one from https://www.bitaddress.org/), you can also store them in hardware wallets (ledger) or cold (offline) wallets (Electrum, Jaxx etc.)

https://i.imgur.com/y7orH2X.png

This is what I see on their website, and there is a button under it "claims.coinsecure" which is unresponsive. Reminds me of r/assholedesign.

This is just sad!

How can they just say June 30 is the last date for us to furnish what they ask for? They are the ones who lost our money and now are ordering us to do things their way without even giving sufficient time. The founders' names will be tarnished forever.

It's already tarnished, ever since the hack day.Nobody would ever trust them.For just money, they betrayed the trust of the whole Indian bitcoin community.
Even if they aren't guilty, still they weren't careful enough to handle the responsibility.They deserve this shame.

You can read this reply for a detailed view on the refund process:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3314633.msg40953366#msg40953366

Looks like, it will take them years to refund everyone.