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Title: Ponzi / Pyramid Scheme / Bubble Post by: TheGodson on April 14, 2018, 10:39:39 AM If you have been in the crypto space long enough I am sure you have heard from at least one person claiming that Bitcoin is a Ponzi scheme, Pyramid scheme, or a bubble. Perhaps you have heard all three. A lot of these people don't know what they are talking about and just quoting someone else they've heard. Here are the meanings of the three and why Bitcoin does or doesn't fit the criteria:
Ponzi scheme What is it? A Ponzi scheme involves a person or entity that recruits investors without any underlying product/service. The only way those investors are paid out is when new people invest. Nothing of value is added and the creator(s) of the scheme run off with all the money in the end. In a Ponzi scheme, people are promised high return with little to no risk. There is no financial reward to recruit new people other than the fact that they add to the money pool (collective reward). Early buyers may get rewarded and the Ponzi may spread by word of mouth. It is not a pyramid scheme because there is no individual reward for recruiting new members. Also there is a central authority. Is Bitcoin a Ponzi? No... no it is not. Bitcoin is decentralized so it cannot be a Ponzi. Bitcoin had a lot of work put into it by Satoshi and many other developers. They had no malicious intent like how a Ponzi does. Also, if Satoshi wanted to come and take all your bitcoins away, he couldn't do it. So no, bitcoin is not a Ponzi. Example of a Ponzi Bitconnect Pyramid Scheme What is it? A Pyramid scheme involves a person or entity that acquires new members whose sole purpose is to recruit more members. Members are rewarded based on the number of people they bring into the pyramid. This is similar to multi-level marketing. The difference is multi-level marketing has a product where as pyramid schemes do not. If they do have a product, it is a garbage product and a majority of the money being generated is from getting new members. If people are having to pay up front to "get in the business" then it is probably a pyramid scheme. In a pyramid scheme there is no central authority who controls all the money like in a Ponzi. Is Bitcoin a Pyramid? No it is not. It is wrong when people mistake bitcoin for a Ponzi, but it is even worse when people mistake it for a pyramid. When you get more people to invest in bitcoin, you are not personally rewarded. All investors are collectively rewarded because the price goes up, but there is no real strong financial incentive for you to get family members and friends to buy bitcoin. Example of a Pyramid People that want to sell you a "starter kit" for selling "starter kits" for any overly priced bullshit product (such as knives, moisturizer creams, DVDs, etc.). Bubble What is it? A bubble is when there is so much hype over a certain thing that investors start evaluating that thing at overly high prices. The increasing price causes people to experience something called "fear of missing out". As a result, people buy and prices are fueled to soaring heights. Eventually reality hits home and a lot of people end up losing money once prices come crashing down. Is Bitcoin a Bubble? Maybe. We have yet to see whether bitcoin becomes a huge success or a massive failure. If it fails then it was a bubble. If it succeeds then it wasn't. So far I'm feeling pretty optimistic. There definitely is a lot of hype in the Bitcoin space, but the future will be the ultimate answer for whether that hype is warranted. Example of a Bubble The Dotcom Bubble I don't mind bitcoin skeptics describing bitcoin as a bubble. Sometimes, they can come up with decent arguments for it. What is annoying though, is when people say bitcoin is a Ponzi or pyramid scheme, because that just doesn't make sense. Using pyramid, Ponzi, and bubble interchangeably is not correct. Our words are important in how we use them. Title: Re: Ponzi / Pyramid Scheme / Bubble Post by: sky9314 on April 14, 2018, 11:21:56 AM The explanation is very clear. I have always opposed the use of Bitcoin as a Ponzi scheme, but perhaps it may be a Bubble. Of course, there are Bubbles in any financial products. This is normal, but the bitcoin's Bubble are bigger and people are more worried.
Title: Re: Ponzi / Pyramid Scheme / Bubble Post by: Vz Ketua on April 14, 2018, 11:28:57 AM I totally agree with your opinion. Bitcoin is not like a ponzi or a pyramid. Those who say it has a skeptical mind and there may be an intention to drop the bitcoin.
Title: Re: Ponzi / Pyramid Scheme / Bubble Post by: ylnar123 on April 14, 2018, 11:35:22 AM If you have been in the crypto space long enough I am sure you have heard from at least one person claiming that Bitcoin is a Ponzi scheme, Pyramid scheme, or a bubble. Perhaps you have heard all three. A lot of these people don't know what they are talking about and just quoting someone else they've heard. Here are the meanings of the three and why Bitcoin does or doesn't fit the criteria: Ponzi scheme What is it? A Ponzi scheme involves a person or entity that recruits investors without any underlying product/service. The only way those investors are paid out is when new people invest. Nothing of value is added and the creator(s) of the scheme run off with all the money in the end. In a Ponzi scheme, people are promised high return with little to no risk. There is no financial reward to recruit new people other than the fact that they add to the money pool (collective reward). Early buyers may get rewarded and the Ponzi may spread by word of mouth. It is not a pyramid scheme because there is no individual reward for recruiting new members. Also there is a central authority. Is Bitcoin a Ponzi? No... no it is not. Bitcoin is decentralized so it cannot be a Ponzi. Bitcoin had a lot of work put into it by Satoshi and many other developers. They had no malicious intent like how a Ponzi does. Also, if Satoshi wanted to come and take all your bitcoins away, he couldn't do it. So no, bitcoin is not a Ponzi. Example of a Ponzi Bitconnect Pyramid Scheme What is it? A Pyramid scheme involves a person or entity that acquires new members whose sole purpose is to recruit more members. Members are rewarded based on the number of people they bring into the pyramid. This is similar to multi-level marketing. The difference is multi-level marketing has a product where as pyramid schemes do not. If they do have a product, it is a garbage product and a majority of the money being generated is from getting new members. If people are having to pay up front to "get in the business" then it is probably a pyramid scheme. In a pyramid scheme there is no central authority who controls all the money like in a Ponzi. Is Bitcoin a Pyramid? No it is not. It is wrong when people mistake bitcoin for a Ponzi, but it is even worse when people mistake it for a pyramid. When you get more people to invest in bitcoin, you are not personally rewarded. All investors are collectively rewarded because the price goes up, but there is no real strong financial incentive for you to get family members and friends to buy bitcoin. Example of a Pyramid People that want to sell you a "starter kit" for selling "starter kits" for any overly priced bullshit product (such as knifes, moisturizer creams, DVDs, etc.). Bubble What is it? A bubble is when there is so much hype over a certain thing that investors start evaluating that thing at overly high prices. The increasing price causes people to experience something called "fear of missing out". As a result, people buy and prices are fueled to soaring heights. Eventually reality hits home and a lot of people end up losing money once prices come crashing down. Is Bitcoin a Bubble? Maybe. We have yet to see whether bitcoin becomes a huge success or a massive failure. If it fails then it was a bubble. If it succeeds then it wasn't. So far I'm feeling pretty optimistic. There definitely is a lot of hype in the Bitcoin space, but the future will be the ultimate answer for whether that hype is warranted. Example of a Bubble The Dotcom Bubble I don't mind bitcoin sceptics describing bitcoin as a bubble. Sometimes, they can come up with decent arguments for it. What is annoying though, is when people say bitcoin is a Ponzi or pyramid scheme, because that just doesn't make sense. Using pyramid, Ponzi, and bubble interchangeably is not correct. Our words are important in how we use them. These are just distractions on out beliefs of what Bitcoin is. Being scam is not the characteristic of a Bitcoin but it is a doing of the people trying to gain something out of nothing from the insuspecious people. So the best way is to have more learnings about Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies. Title: Re: Ponzi / Pyramid Scheme / Bubble Post by: robelneo on April 14, 2018, 11:44:46 AM The explanation is very clear. I have always opposed the use of Bitcoin as a Ponzi scheme, but perhaps it may be a Bubble. Of course, there are Bubbles in any financial products. This is normal, but the bitcoin's Bubble are bigger and people are more worried. I agree that it is big and people are worried because the price can crash at one big bad news like we had in the past, this is very much associated with Bitcoin and I believe will continue because the other side of Bitcoin is an investment and every investment has a risk side of it. Title: Re: Ponzi / Pyramid Scheme / Bubble Post by: boyjack on April 16, 2018, 09:57:02 AM Bitcoin is not ponzi /pyramid scheme, many peoples are worried in Bitcoin now because of the current market condition and price crashed , not that means it was bubble, If you want to invest money you should take risk also, I think bitcoin have great future and it will be great investment platform.
Title: Re: Ponzi / Pyramid Scheme / Bubble Post by: FlightyPouch on April 16, 2018, 10:02:38 AM I want to share this to our countrymen. Ever since Bitcoin was being popular, our country is not still knowing the hype going on and they were introduced to Bitcoin one time and that is the worst way it is introduced to people since the news is about a guy being scammed using Bitcoin.
This news led other networks to report their own about this crypto currency and it is all a bad thing but what they did not know is that Bitcoin is just a digital currency that is being used for that purpose, as i said to my other posts they are just using Bitcoin as an escape route to run from their crimes. Title: Re: Ponzi / Pyramid Scheme / Bubble Post by: Verde_Mantis on April 16, 2018, 10:04:44 AM Very nice post, it's a good explanation for all those people who use those terms without even knowing their real meaning, so I hope they're gonna read this before writing the next time.
Title: Re: Ponzi / Pyramid Scheme / Bubble Post by: Xester on April 16, 2018, 10:21:35 AM This is a good explanation to make a distinction between what is a ponzi scheme and what is bitcoin and cryptocurrency. But even though the masses knows what is a pozi scheme they would simply just thought any kind of investment a scam if they will lost their capital. To people who are open minded they will do some research before thinking anything but for people who only thinks of profit they will think everything as a scam if they will not profit and lost their capital in the process.
Title: Re: Ponzi / Pyramid Scheme / Bubble Post by: Hui8 on April 16, 2018, 10:31:03 AM I would just say that ponzi schemes are everywhere, leaving behind the BTC I am sure that ICO's are Ponzi's (Not all of them but most of them). Pyramid scheme, there is no question about that as bitcoin is completely open source program and we can invest in it the way we want it. I am sure there had been many pyramid schemes in the bitcoin world but they were made out of the ponzis. You see where I am going with this one? Its like Ponzi's being responsible different stuff like pyramid schemes etc. The bubble, oh my god, bitcoin is bubble since 2010-2012 period and it is still bursting. ;D
Title: Re: Ponzi / Pyramid Scheme / Bubble Post by: palle11 on April 16, 2018, 10:31:49 AM The explanation is very clear. I have always opposed the use of Bitcoin as a Ponzi scheme, but perhaps it may be a Bubble. Of course, there are Bubbles in any financial products. This is normal, but the bitcoin's Bubble are bigger and people are more worried. On the contrary, I have not read any where that bitcoin is a ponzi because bitcoin is not like marketing networks that you would need to introduce somebody for you to grow and for the product to grow too. I have however read that it is a bubble and to this, even if it is a bubble; if it burst, it is going to produce something far better from it. Title: Re: Ponzi / Pyramid Scheme / Bubble Post by: marjil on April 16, 2018, 10:35:24 AM Bubble What is it? A bubble is when there is so much hype over a certain thing that investors start evaluating that thing at overly high prices. The increasing price causes people to experience something called "fear of missing out". As a result, people buy and prices are fueled to soaring heights. Eventually reality hits home and a lot of people end up losing money once prices come crashing down. Is Bitcoin a Bubble? Maybe. We have yet to see whether bitcoin becomes a huge success or a massive failure. If it fails then it was a bubble. If it succeeds then it wasn't. So far I'm feeling pretty optimistic. There definitely is a lot of hype in the Bitcoin space, but the future will be the ultimate answer for whether that hype is warranted. Example of a Bubble The Dotcom Bubble[/center] There can be more than one bubble in the same asset at different times. So saying that above is not really accurate as to what a bubble is or how it works. Bitcoin went from $900 to $19,700 through 2017. That's a 2,000% increase. If it drops to $2,000 that would be an 90% drop. If bitcoin were to then rise again over time to $50,000 then according to your definition there will have been no bubble. But, a 90% drop would definitely constitute a bubble. A bubble does not need to wipe out an asset, it just needs to be a point from which prices crash. And 90% would definitely be considered a crash by anyone's standards. You gave the dotcom as an example of a bubble. Amazon and Facebook were part of that, as were other tech companies which have grown massively since they crashed. But they were in a bubble but still survived. So you see, you can have bubbles without obliterating the asset, which may then go on to greater heights in their value. Title: Re: Ponzi / Pyramid Scheme / Bubble Post by: avikz on April 16, 2018, 10:37:31 AM Right you are! But majority of the people using bitcoin doesn't classify it as a ponzi or pyramid scheme. Those who have classified bitcoin or cryptocurrency in general as a pyramid or ponzi, they have either never used it personally or uneducated morons.
I remember, one Indian Member of Parliament, classified bitcoin as ponzi scheme in front of the who parliament. These kind of people don't have any understanding of the technology and they are too ignorant to learn new things. Bitcoin is nowhere related to ponzi or pyramid scheme. However, if I talk about bubble, then I have a different understanding. Bitcoin can be somewhat linked to bubble. We can't deny the fact that the driving force of bitcoin is somewhat based on the hype it has created. Today people are talking about bitcoin because of that hype. Not everyone is a technological expert, so non technical people are coming into the market because of the hype it has created. Definitely bitcoin is a technological milestone but hype is one of the major driving force of it. Title: Re: Ponzi / Pyramid Scheme / Bubble Post by: Kokondao on April 16, 2018, 10:52:44 AM Thank you very much for giving us very useful information for all of us, and with your post I think that reading can distinguish everything.
Title: Re: Ponzi / Pyramid Scheme / Bubble Post by: Razick on April 16, 2018, 11:29:44 AM Thank you for these definitions, it's good that people actually know the meaning of the terms they are using. With that being said, I do not think that bitcoin is a bubble, its price did not crash like the dotcom bubble and bitcoin is still going strong and prices are recovering. And even with bitcoin prices being this low, there are still some people who are making a lot of profit from it.
Title: Re: Ponzi / Pyramid Scheme / Bubble Post by: harbs23 on April 16, 2018, 11:39:50 AM Now I know that bitcoin is not ponzi scheme and pyramid scheme.
I think the scammer use bitcoin as their alibi because the price is unstable. Exit plan in short! Title: Re: Ponzi / Pyramid Scheme / Bubble Post by: mOgliE on April 16, 2018, 11:42:01 AM Hi,
I don't really see bitcoin as a bubble. Because indeed, trends are similar, so it can be worrying, but unlike other crisis, it doesn't rely on anything tangible. So I think we can't really compare the situation. When the price of a tulip was crazy, it was rather easy to state it, because you could make a link between a price (and value) and a "thing". Though, how would you value bitcoin? Even if prices become crazy, how could you tell when it is "too high"? Title: Re: Ponzi / Pyramid Scheme / Bubble Post by: marcuslong on April 16, 2018, 08:49:50 PM This is a good explanation to make a distinction between what is a ponzi scheme and what is bitcoin and cryptocurrency. But even though the masses knows what is a pozi scheme they would simply just thought any kind of investment a scam if they will lost their capital. To people who are open minded they will do some research before thinking anything but for people who only thinks of profit they will think everything as a scam if they will not profit and lost their capital in the process. Its been a long period of time that ponzi has been deceiving people using fiat money investments like purchasing products for selling. But with bitcoin cryptocurrency the impression is different due to its unique asset liability. Despite of all the fake news bitcoin still remain strong currency even though its volatile because of lots of fake news spreading lately and until now it continues to happen, but it won't affect long term investors to hold their bitcoins. They don't even care the bubble price, and they just wait for the price surges to come so that selling is worth profitable. Title: Re: Ponzi / Pyramid Scheme / Bubble Post by: felicita on April 16, 2018, 08:54:11 PM also most of alstcoins and ICOs are ponzis shems .
There will allways be snowball systems and ponzi shemse in Bitcoin and co. its for niwbies XD regards Title: Re: Ponzi / Pyramid Scheme / Bubble Post by: timerland on April 16, 2018, 09:04:09 PM Thanks for the clear explanations of each term.
I hear a lot of people who are bearish on bitcoin say that bitcoin is a pyramid scheme/ponzi scheme. I don't think that they have done an research, and are just blatantly spitting out bullshit from their mouth. A ponzi scheme will only work, if there is a central figure that has control over your money that you invest. BTC first of all, is not an investment. It's a currency, that can be regarded as an investment. Secondly, BTC is decentralized. So the accusations of BTC being a ponzi is completely baseless. BTC isn't a bubble right now, but was in a bubble imo last year. Title: Re: Ponzi / Pyramid Scheme / Bubble Post by: KingScorpio on April 16, 2018, 10:38:42 PM If you have been in the crypto space long enough I am sure you have heard from at least one person claiming that Bitcoin is a Ponzi scheme, Pyramid scheme, or a bubble. Perhaps you have heard all three. A lot of these people don't know what they are talking about and just quoting someone else they've heard. Here are the meanings of the three and why Bitcoin does or doesn't fit the criteria: Ponzi scheme What is it? A Ponzi scheme involves a person or entity that recruits investors without any underlying product/service. The only way those investors are paid out is when new people invest. Nothing of value is added and the creator(s) of the scheme run off with all the money in the end. In a Ponzi scheme, people are promised high return with little to no risk. There is no financial reward to recruit new people other than the fact that they add to the money pool (collective reward). Early buyers may get rewarded and the Ponzi may spread by word of mouth. It is not a pyramid scheme because there is no individual reward for recruiting new members. Also there is a central authority. Is Bitcoin a Ponzi? No... no it is not. Bitcoin is decentralized so it cannot be a Ponzi. Bitcoin had a lot of work put into it by Satoshi and many other developers. They had no malicious intent like how a Ponzi does. Also, if Satoshi wanted to come and take all your bitcoins away, he couldn't do it. So no, bitcoin is not a Ponzi. Example of a Ponzi Bitconnect Pyramid Scheme What is it? A Pyramid scheme involves a person or entity that acquires new members whose sole purpose is to recruit more members. Members are rewarded based on the number of people they bring into the pyramid. This is similar to multi-level marketing. The difference is multi-level marketing has a product where as pyramid schemes do not. If they do have a product, it is a garbage product and a majority of the money being generated is from getting new members. If people are having to pay up front to "get in the business" then it is probably a pyramid scheme. In a pyramid scheme there is no central authority who controls all the money like in a Ponzi. Is Bitcoin a Pyramid? No it is not. It is wrong when people mistake bitcoin for a Ponzi, but it is even worse when people mistake it for a pyramid. When you get more people to invest in bitcoin, you are not personally rewarded. All investors are collectively rewarded because the price goes up, but there is no real strong financial incentive for you to get family members and friends to buy bitcoin. Example of a Pyramid People that want to sell you a "starter kit" for selling "starter kits" for any overly priced bullshit product (such as knifes, moisturizer creams, DVDs, etc.). Bubble What is it? A bubble is when there is so much hype over a certain thing that investors start evaluating that thing at overly high prices. The increasing price causes people to experience something called "fear of missing out". As a result, people buy and prices are fueled to soaring heights. Eventually reality hits home and a lot of people end up losing money once prices come crashing down. Is Bitcoin a Bubble? Maybe. We have yet to see whether bitcoin becomes a huge success or a massive failure. If it fails then it was a bubble. If it succeeds then it wasn't. So far I'm feeling pretty optimistic. There definitely is a lot of hype in the Bitcoin space, but the future will be the ultimate answer for whether that hype is warranted. Example of a Bubble The Dotcom Bubble I don't mind bitcoin sceptics describing bitcoin as a bubble. Sometimes, they can come up with decent arguments for it. What is annoying though, is when people say bitcoin is a Ponzi or pyramid scheme, because that just doesn't make sense. Using pyramid, Ponzi, and bubble interchangeably is not correct. Our words are important in how we use them. you cant avoid pyramid schemes in cryptoeconomics they are not an exception but common, for example, ethereum -> pyramid system tether -> pyramid system etc. get used to it. Title: Re: Ponzi / Pyramid Scheme / Bubble Post by: Saaby06 on April 16, 2018, 10:41:18 PM Thanks for the explanation on these terms, I had my aunty the other day try to tell me that Bitcoin is a pyramid scheme.
Title: Re: Ponzi / Pyramid Scheme / Bubble Post by: KingScorpio on April 16, 2018, 10:42:57 PM Thanks for the explanation in these terms, I had my aunty the other day tell me that Bitcoin is a pyramid scheme. all currencies are pyramid schemes even if you would consider a metal/matter based currency like gold silver, bronze copper coins, or maybe uranium coins etc or for an extreme cases like Plutonium (jes that could also be used as coin matter to buy really expensive thinks where gold is garbage). they also are pyramid schemes, the respective mining companies and the top shareholders + ceo's become the most powerful (top of pyramid) people then. the question is which pyramid do you support, trust and which not. Title: Re: Ponzi / Pyramid Scheme / Bubble Post by: hakertajniak on April 17, 2018, 05:45:52 AM Thank you for your very good explanation about ponzi scheme.
This should be read by the peoples who assume that bitcoin is a ponzi scheme. totally different from bitcoin. Title: Re: Ponzi / Pyramid Scheme / Bubble Post by: Roaid on April 17, 2018, 06:21:07 AM When it comes to bubbles, the biggest bubble should be fiat currency. The issuance of currencies such as the United States dollar and the euro is more restrained and still better. If you can find China's M2 data, it will definitely surprise you. To some extent, this is why Bitcoin is popular in China and explains why the Chinese government closed the Bitcoin exchanges.
Title: Re: Ponzi / Pyramid Scheme / Bubble Post by: RocketShipJumper on April 17, 2018, 06:30:39 AM Thanks for this! I'm sort of new to trading so this helped a bunch!
Title: Re: Ponzi / Pyramid Scheme / Bubble Post by: ETHtotheMOON1 on April 17, 2018, 07:08:10 AM If you have been in the crypto space long enough I am sure you have heard from at least one person claiming that Bitcoin is a Ponzi scheme, Pyramid scheme, or a bubble. Perhaps you have heard all three. A lot of these people don't know what they are talking about and just quoting someone else they've heard. Here are the meanings of the three and why Bitcoin does or doesn't fit the criteria: Ponzi scheme What is it? A Ponzi scheme involves a person or entity that recruits investors without any underlying product/service. The only way those investors are paid out is when new people invest. Nothing of value is added and the creator(s) of the scheme run off with all the money in the end. In a Ponzi scheme, people are promised high return with little to no risk. There is no financial reward to recruit new people other than the fact that they add to the money pool (collective reward). Early buyers may get rewarded and the Ponzi may spread by word of mouth. It is not a pyramid scheme because there is no individual reward for recruiting new members. Also there is a central authority. Is Bitcoin a Ponzi? No... no it is not. Bitcoin is decentralized so it cannot be a Ponzi. Bitcoin had a lot of work put into it by Satoshi and many other developers. They had no malicious intent like how a Ponzi does. Also, if Satoshi wanted to come and take all your bitcoins away, he couldn't do it. So no, bitcoin is not a Ponzi. Example of a Ponzi Bitconnect Pyramid Scheme What is it? A Pyramid scheme involves a person or entity that acquires new members whose sole purpose is to recruit more members. Members are rewarded based on the number of people they bring into the pyramid. This is similar to multi-level marketing. The difference is multi-level marketing has a product where as pyramid schemes do not. If they do have a product, it is a garbage product and a majority of the money being generated is from getting new members. If people are having to pay up front to "get in the business" then it is probably a pyramid scheme. In a pyramid scheme there is no central authority who controls all the money like in a Ponzi. Is Bitcoin a Pyramid? No it is not. It is wrong when people mistake bitcoin for a Ponzi, but it is even worse when people mistake it for a pyramid. When you get more people to invest in bitcoin, you are not personally rewarded. All investors are collectively rewarded because the price goes up, but there is no real strong financial incentive for you to get family members and friends to buy bitcoin. Example of a Pyramid People that want to sell you a "starter kit" for selling "starter kits" for any overly priced bullshit product (such as knifes, moisturizer creams, DVDs, etc.). Bubble What is it? A bubble is when there is so much hype over a certain thing that investors start evaluating that thing at overly high prices. The increasing price causes people to experience something called "fear of missing out". As a result, people buy and prices are fueled to soaring heights. Eventually reality hits home and a lot of people end up losing money once prices come crashing down. Is Bitcoin a Bubble? Maybe. We have yet to see whether bitcoin becomes a huge success or a massive failure. If it fails then it was a bubble. If it succeeds then it wasn't. So far I'm feeling pretty optimistic. There definitely is a lot of hype in the Bitcoin space, but the future will be the ultimate answer for whether that hype is warranted. Example of a Bubble The Dotcom Bubble I don't mind bitcoin sceptics describing bitcoin as a bubble. Sometimes, they can come up with decent arguments for it. What is annoying though, is when people say bitcoin is a Ponzi or pyramid scheme, because that just doesn't make sense. Using pyramid, Ponzi, and bubble interchangeably is not correct. Our words are important in how we use them. thank you for this post, you made it very clear. Totally agree with you, it's ridiculous to call bitcoin any of those, as it's clearly not the case. But if those people want calling bitcoin names, their problem :) Title: Re: Ponzi / Pyramid Scheme / Bubble Post by: Pan Troglodytes on April 17, 2018, 07:21:57 AM Thanks for the clear explanations of each term. I hear a lot of people who are bearish on bitcoin say that bitcoin is a pyramid scheme/ponzi scheme. I don't think that they have done an research, and are just blatantly spitting out bullshit from their mouth. A ponzi scheme will only work, if there is a central figure that has control over your money that you invest. BTC first of all, is not an investment. It's a currency, that can be regarded as an investment. Secondly, BTC is decentralized. So the accusations of BTC being a ponzi is completely baseless. BTC isn't a bubble right now, but was in a bubble imo last year. Well it was intended to be so but it failed to deliver value as currency last year, when transaction fees shot to the sky. I only hope that it will recover and with LN introduced it will fulfill its purpose. Because I believe that only then it can have the utility high enough to sustain its price going up. Thus, it will not be a bubble ready to burst, but rather it will be adopted and used widely and its high price will be sustained long term. Title: Re: Ponzi / Pyramid Scheme / Bubble Post by: Blakscorpion on April 17, 2018, 07:49:32 AM I'm not sure there is a big differences with ponzi and piramid scheme.
Both of them earn their rewards thanks to the newcomers. Enlight me if I'm wrong but I think it's the same thing. Title: Re: Ponzi / Pyramid Scheme / Bubble Post by: TheGodson on May 11, 2019, 08:38:22 PM It has been a year since I made this post, but I thought that it deserved a bump given the recent activity in the Bitcoin space.
Title: Re: Ponzi / Pyramid Scheme / Bubble Post by: pixie85 on May 11, 2019, 09:27:03 PM It has been a year since I made this post, but I thought that it deserved a bump given the recent activity in the Bitcoin space. It's a nice thread that will help people understand the definitions. I'm not sure there is a big differences with ponzi and piramid scheme. Both of them earn their rewards thanks to the newcomers. Enlight me if I'm wrong but I think it's the same thing. Ponzi scheme is an American thing. In Europe we don't use this name and instead use pyramid scheme and mlm to describe this. Ponzi scheme was repeated by another proud American Madoff who did the same thing. There were no levels in his system just him on top stealing from everyone and lying to everyone. Title: Re: Ponzi / Pyramid Scheme / Bubble Post by: rodel caling on May 11, 2019, 10:54:13 PM I totally agree with your opinion. Bitcoin is not like a ponzi or a pyramid. Those who say it has a skeptical mind and there may be an intention to drop the bitcoin. That's is truly right mate, people they use bitcoin or digital currency for extortion to get quick huge money, and regarding for bitcoin bubbles is a normal because of high volatility fluctuations. I advise to all bitcoin ethusiasm learn well before investing in any kind of investment to avoid victim of ponzi schemes. Title: Re: Ponzi / Pyramid Scheme / Bubble Post by: traderethereum on May 11, 2019, 11:23:27 PM So when there are people who think bitcoin is a Ponzi, pyramid scheme or bubble, we don't have to argue with them because we cannot make them realize the truth.
I am sure that they will find out by themselves in one day and they will understand that what their saying is not right. I don't think bitcoin is a Ponzi or anything else. I considered bitcoin as a way to make money on the internet, and it's not a scam like the other investment program. Besides that, for me, bitcoin is like a currency as the others say the same as me. Title: Re: Ponzi / Pyramid Scheme / Bubble Post by: uneng on May 12, 2019, 04:40:58 AM Bitcoin is a "product", it exists and has an usage, and as you said, pyramid schemes don't involve any products, it's just a group of people sharing money to bring more people to share money too. That is a good proof bitcoin isn't a pyramid scheme.
The bubble part is more complex: when there are so many speculators investing I can understand bitcoin price is overdone and it can be seen as a bubble. Title: Re: Ponzi / Pyramid Scheme / Bubble Post by: Broly46 on May 12, 2019, 06:13:46 AM We need Ponzi, just accept it. It is our job to deal with Ponzi, and don't blame anyone else to owe you a life.
Title: Re: Ponzi / Pyramid Scheme / Bubble Post by: Steadfast20 on May 12, 2019, 06:30:10 AM Well explained as a high ranked user gave you a huge amount of merit. I believe that Bitcoin is not a ponzi scheme or a pyramid scheme. I think there is no evidences that it is a pyramid or ponzi. Maybe they are saying that because the scammers are using it for ponzi scheme and pyramid scheme. Those who thinks Bitcoin as scam are those newbies who doesn't know everything about it.
Title: Re: Ponzi / Pyramid Scheme / Bubble Post by: waynechong1995 on May 12, 2019, 09:45:34 AM If you are talking pure BTC, its a wide topic when big players are holding so much value from crypto. BTC could easily become a bubble when the price slumps heavily to loses and some small amount of people gained. Pyramid scheme is more like a structured way of scam each others, but market does the same too, price manipulation are common when an authority (whales or project owner) have advantage of supply or channels. Its all about playing smart and get a piece of cake these days if you are an investor. My mindset is everybody is looking at money and it does being reflect on people and market.
Title: Re: Ponzi / Pyramid Scheme / Bubble Post by: kamBlanV on May 12, 2019, 10:27:19 AM ponzi, pyramid scheme, and the bubble is not a BTC technology concept, the term is only used by irresponsible people, they are stupid, and damage the good name of BTC and the crypto world.
the term will affect the beginner, and then it will affect the crypto market. Title: Re: Ponzi / Pyramid Scheme / Bubble Post by: Crypto Girl on May 12, 2019, 11:14:29 AM We need Ponzi, just accept it. It is our job to deal with Ponzi, and don't blame anyone else to owe you a life. Wait, what? If you think you need it then go ahead and deal with it, perhaps you don't know what you're talking.While we know very well that bitcoin isn't those mentioned in OP though the bubble thing is quite agreeable since it's volatile and whales can control the market which they can pump and dump it anytime yet we should know how to take profit then. Just go with the flow instead. Title: Re: Ponzi / Pyramid Scheme / Bubble Post by: kaya11 on May 12, 2019, 03:39:27 PM Yet if it still believed to be a bubble then how come those gentlemen in suits continuously support and mingle with this big bubble that they are saying? Is it just the mere reason was it gives them money, or is it they want something new, and to really change how the financial market is at the moment. I believe in BTC and blockchain, who cares about the folks saying it is bubble, let them be.
Title: Re: Ponzi / Pyramid Scheme / Bubble Post by: thesmallgod on May 12, 2019, 04:34:51 PM With a broad knowledge about crypto and ponzi scheme. I can categorically tell you that crypto is not a ponzi scheme. In 2013 when ponzi scheme was at its peak and many people that have fell victim of the popular get rich quickly scheme (Ponzi). Fraudsters that are the major originator of the scam site started looking for a payment processor that will be very easy to get people engaged in, (as others such as PM, LR, payza are preventing their customers from using their account for ponzi scheme) they make bitcoin their target as payment processors. Now many people that have fell victim using bitcoin as payment processors on those sites are now calling bitcoin a ponzi scheme. I just wonder why they are not calling perfect money, liberty reserve, payza, solidtrustpay a ponzi scheme ;D
Title: Re: Ponzi / Pyramid Scheme / Bubble Post by: okala on May 12, 2019, 06:54:51 PM Those that refers to bitcoin as a ponzi scheme are only saying so because the lack the fundamental knowledge of what a ponzi is and also what a decentralized currency is because a ponzi scheme does not have value on the exchange market and it does not even serve as a currency which can to transfer from one person to another. And also if bitcoin is a bubble then it should have bursted by now and bitcoin is already ten years and still counting.
Title: Re: Ponzi / Pyramid Scheme / Bubble Post by: Romeoetin on May 12, 2019, 08:13:47 PM I got to know about bitcoin from popular global ponzi scheme MMM.. Bitcoin facilitated their ability to engaged the global ponzi community and get more people to participate no matter the geographical position.
Title: Re: Ponzi / Pyramid Scheme / Bubble Post by: Kakmakr on May 12, 2019, 08:20:22 PM I got to know about bitcoin from popular global ponzi scheme MMM.. Bitcoin facilitated their ability to engaged the global ponzi community and get more people to participate no matter the geographical position. Yes, but do you think MMM would not have happened if it was not for Bitcoin? These Ponzi schemes has been around much longer than Bitcoin has been around, so Bitcoin is not the reason for their existence. Scammers are always finding better ways to commit their crimes and Bitcoin is just another method of payment for them to do that. If Bitcoin was not around, people would have used Bank transfers or PayPal or Diners Club cards etc... they always find a way to commit these crimes. Title: Re: Ponzi / Pyramid Scheme / Bubble Post by: Broly46 on May 13, 2019, 02:58:09 AM We need Ponzi, just accept it. It is our job to deal with Ponzi, and don't blame anyone else to owe you a life. Wait, what? If you think you need it then go ahead and deal with it, perhaps you don't know what you're talking.While we know very well that bitcoin isn't those mentioned in OP though the bubble thing is quite agreeable since it's volatile and whales can control the market which they can pump and dump it anytime yet we should know how to take profit then. Just go with the flow instead. Are you serious you know how to take profit? Bitcoin is now over 9000!! OMG I so glad I’m hodl forever, I’m proud to be the perma shitcoin bagholder. Title: Re: Ponzi / Pyramid Scheme / Bubble Post by: LUCKMCFLY on May 13, 2019, 02:29:04 PM I am very satisfied with all these signatures, because these schemes are very common find anywhere, in which many people fall, personally I think the most blatant way to take money from others, is something that does not fully my head as people can believe in ponzi or pyramidal systems.
The bubble, is already demonstrable with the structure that bitcoin has, over the years has seen bitcoin as a currency that has had history, in fact, the fundamental and technical system is applicable as a study process for analyze the market If we compare it with the models or structures of bubble structure schemes it does not make any sense that the bitcoin graph has similarity, because bitcoin operations have always existed 24 hours and the market movements have been gestated and planned mostly by the market makers, therefore does not apply, what happens is that bitcoin does not have any backing as Stock Market shares, this makes some economists, governments and banks do not take the initiative to believe, but has the blockchain technology, which is the one that they can not control and it is impossible to make corrupt. Title: Re: Ponzi / Pyramid Scheme / Bubble Post by: TheGodson on June 22, 2020, 09:13:48 PM I fell victim to a ponzi coin. If any of you heard of Polymath then you'd know that it practically went to 0. Lost a lot of money on it, it was a complete scam and I didn't do any research.
Be careful and do your research. I've pretty much dumped all altcoins long ago and I haven't regretted that decision. Title: Re: Ponzi / Pyramid Scheme / Bubble Post by: ChiBitCTy on June 22, 2020, 09:20:56 PM A lot of people refer to bitcoin as a ponzi because it simply goes against it's world views, and they are unwilling to change those views/open their minds. Andreas says it best here..
"I think many of the intellectually honest people eventually stop being critics, because they suddenly realize that the flaws they are identifying are temporary features, issues, and not inherent problems. There are very few inherent problems in a dynamically evolving design or ecosystem of different designs all competing, that cannot be resolved. There are critics who criticize this technology primarily based on their world view. It is politically inconsistent with their world view. It’s not that they do not like the technology it’s that they do not like the implications of this technology and the primary criticism you get then is “this should not be” to which all I can answer is ..and yet it is. “but we mustn’t”… and yet we did, “but you shouldn’t”.. but yet we did"- Andreas Antonopoulos. Title: Re: Ponzi / Pyramid Scheme / Bubble Post by: MCobian on June 22, 2020, 09:41:43 PM I am also one of those who disagree if bitcoin is called a ponzi scheme, even though the victims of the ponzi scheme are people
who invest without doing research properly. And the person finally blames bitcoin by saying bitcoin is a ponzi scheme. Usually newbie who are victims of Ponzi scheme, because they want to get instant profit. Regarding the bitcoin pyramid scheme, it's clearly bitcoin not a pyramid scheme, and if it relates to bubbles, I quite agree. Because with the volatile bitcoin price, it's only natural to have a bubble. Title: Re: Ponzi / Pyramid Scheme / Bubble Post by: bitfolio_dot_io on June 22, 2020, 09:56:33 PM Until its value is pegged to something more fundamental than speculation, it will simultaneously be a Ponzi scheme, a bubble, and an investment opportunity. Which makes it very interesting and gives people from all sides plenty of ammunition for an argument.
Title: Re: Ponzi / Pyramid Scheme / Bubble Post by: TheGodson on March 15, 2021, 12:43:10 PM Polymath pumped. My small amount of coins that were too cheap to move became massive. Sold all of it. Read about Polymath here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/7sqrou/warning_polymath_network_could_be_a_scam/ Complete air project, yet people have dumped money into it recently. Glad I got out while I could. |