Bitcoin Forum

The real key to stopping the Bitmain and this greedy policy is two fold.

1. We need to simply stop buying the miners. We as miners should by only a few batches and then stop. If we don't do this the difficulty will become so high only people with huge mining operations will be able to show a profit.
2. Absolutely do not under any circumstance mine using their Ant pool server as this allows them to keep profiting from the sale of the miners and it forms a monopoly of profit for them.
We must mine some where else. Anywhere else otherwise Bitmain will completly monopolize and control all the coin markets. Part two is the most important.

Unfortunately you are asking the impossible. I agree with you totally as Bitmain is one of the main responsible entity for the difficulty skyrocketing of many altcoins thanks to their miners like X3, E3, D3 ,L3+ etc.

The problem is though that many people in third world countries see this as a good option to earn extra income while they are looking for a job and they will continue buying the miners. I know though that if developed countries like USA and Europe stop buying antminers this at least would be a blow to bitmain. I agree with you but I am a graphic card miner and only lately started doing so.

This sounds too idealistic. There are people who earn a lot of money with miners and they will not stop buying them. Actually, they hope that we (small players with just a few GPUs) will give up, so they can earn even more.

I will never give up on graphic card mining even if it is not profitable anymore, I will keep my computer running, I have low profile cards mostly so energy is not a problem for me, as long as they will make like 0.0005 bitcoin daily all of them I will be very happy thinking of the future.

Or support Obelisk Tech which is doing Asic in the united states.  More Asic competition will force bitmain not to self mine for months before shipping units out.

They are doing a Batch5 release and they stated they ship units to customers first before they mine. They are also transparent on how many units they plan to mine with.

https://obelisk.tech/

There's Baikal, Innosillicon, Halong. Things could look up...

If it is profitable to mine, people will just buy the miners. It is just that simple.

Human beings sacrificing short term personal gains for the long term good of the whole(or even themselves) is never going to happen.. We've been fucking ourselves over since the dawn of time because of our inability to do this so it's not going to change anytime soon

Not to rain on your parade but those 2 suggestions are highly unlikely to happen. The first being more absurd than the second. History has shown time and again that some people are driven by greed. There will always be that someone who will want to get ahead of the rest and buy that miner or point their rigs to antpool.

I guess the only way for us to fight back against bitmain right now is to support its competition.

The only way to stop bitmain is what monero devs have done, brick/block them from using xmr network.  You trolls should never blame people or economics for that matter, blame the developers and only the developers.

This is impossible.
You can reach some of us with that way of thinking (it does make sense, if we stopped buying their miners they would go bankrupt) but you're never going to touch the actual masses of miners who just want to make a quick buck.

We will soon be seeing (by several individuals) the release of free bitstreams to build DIY-FPGA mining rigs with higher hash rates than GPU's, but the GPU's will still be viable.  Monero has the right idea, to fork away from ASIC's, although they can never fork away from FPGA's since FPGA's can be rapidly modified in software just like GPU's.  The FPGA's (once widely adopted) make ASIC development less profitable.  Since ASIC's have a 100x advantage over GPU's and only a 1.5 to 7x advantage over FPGA's, if a coin's hash rate is owned by DIY-FPGA miners, the profit from making an ASIC will be sketchy.  That, combined with coin owners constantly forking their algorithms away from ASIC's, is one method.

There is a better method that I will be pushing for at the same time that I release my own FPGA bitstreams, and that is for all coins to adopt dynamically changing algorithms like Timetravel10, X16R, X16S, X11Evo.  These can be mined by FPGA's and GPU's, but no ASIC can ever beat an FPGA on those algorithms, making them the only real 'ASIC-Proof' algorithms invented thus far.  The technical details of why that is the case are complicated.

If coins adopted those algorithms, they would never have to go through the trouble of 'forking' since no ASIC can beat a DIY-FPGA on those algorithms anyway.

ASIC resistant algorithms are just the start. The hardest part is educating John Q Public on why they should invest in coins that utelize these ASIC resistant algo's.

Without education or information on why ASICs really go against the decentralized model companies will continue to develop and profit by buildng ASIC miners.

LOL at batch 5.  One of the main complaints about Bitmain is their seemingly non-stop production of batches of miners.  Obelisk isn't any better than Bitmain.  The Obelisk-SIA relationship is worse than anything antpool has done.

So you are suggesting we shouldn't invest in Bitcoin?

Read the whole thread and everyone is missing big point here.  Problem isn't people buying the miners.  Bitmain has already made hundreds of them and are running them on their private farms.  The units for sale are used or assembled from obsolete chips.  We can stop buying them but they will simply keep them all rather than sell the scraps.

The moral here is that the miners already exist and are currently running regardless of how the community feels.

That company is a pathetic example of an ideal asic producer. You should be ashamed of yourself for even possibly making someone think about them as a reputable company that delivers an adequate product and has customer's best interest as a priority. The only reason they were able to have any pull at all was the fact that they had connections to the development of a coin. Bitmain even stated on twitter that they might be offering people that purchased their siacoin miners a coupon. That doggie's tail (obelisk) is so far up its stomach it doesnt even post on twitter anymore.

This is true, in fact Bitmain and Baikal, while not great, are not that bad if you consider some of the absolutely horrible companies that exist.  If you want to look at the bright side, it could be way worse....

Fine go back to complaining about Bitmain is a monopoly and do nothing about it.  Business as Usual

Bitmain being first to market on some things doesnt make them a monopoly. Most of you guys hear the crap spewed on this site against bitmain and think its all true.

I have been to Bitmains production facilities and mining areas. None of what people say on this site is true because they simply havent been there.

Stop believing all the BS you hear just because people like to bash on Bitmains success.

Its so hypocritical I laugh at it daily. Nearly everyone (99.5% at minimum) is motivated by greed to mine for a profit. The only reason they hate on bitmain is they are too broke to buy the products and profit for themselves.

Super agree with a few parts of this:


The one only reason that can upset "The units for sale are being used or assembled from obsolete chips." Yeah, we can't control what people did, what people want. Let people do what they want, they (Bitmain) can create an ASICs that we can't; they were so great, agree? How if, we are the party that can do it (creating something, just like Bitmain do)?

Let's compare about one standard GPUs rig (six cards) and one ASIC (that equivalent / which work on the same algorithm)

- How much that both cost you?
- How about comparing both electricity needs?
- How about complexation?

I believe your answer would be different each. It will depend on your passion.

I am GPU miner, and I didn't interesting and buying ASICs (at least starting from my last ASIC [AnTminer S1] lol).

---

My warm advice:
Just Ignore what you have zero control over it! Focus on what you can do, what you can explore, what you can improve, what you can optimize.  ;)

Monero will be what BTC supposed to be!

What about the Bitcoin Cash?

Bitcoin Cash is the real Monero!!!!! Er....

Forking to change algo's is probably the best way to slow this down.  Then watch how many more ASIC miners are quickly announced and come to market.  If Bitmain didn't do "hidden mining", there would be significantly less hate due to centralization and unethical practices concerns.

There is no way of it. Almost 100% of population likes free/easy money. So antminers gives us this, if you and me won't buy, then others will buy. If people would be together in bad moments, life wouldn't be like today + there wouldn't be word poor too.
I don't like their monopoly too, anything they touch gets destroyed and abandoned.

Bitmain supplies the farm investors an easy way to mine coin. They make millions of dollars a week so they arent going out of business anytime soon. They are the Apple of the cryptomining world.

I gave up trying to understand people

A lot of people say they are in cryptos because the technology, or because they are against governments, banks, the monetary system, but they all buy stuff from bitmain, they don't care about cryptos, they are here just to gain money

It's disgusting to see something with big potential, but people are doing with they know best

These algorithms probably have insufficient resistance to the ASIC. It is not enough just to shuffle the SHA3 candidates to get rid of ASIC. It is quite possible to expect the announcement of the miner for these algorithms.

I believe that protection from ASIC should include many huge multiplexers. Those muxes are already in FPGA (although they are statically configured at Place and Route stage), but they will take up a lot of space in ASIC. The downside of this solution is the need to build a bitstream for every state of multiplexer and load a bitstream at the beginging of every block.

In order to distribute computing power equally for everyone, it makes sense to use somehow the bandwidth of the PCI Express link with at least 8 transceivers of GTX in the POW function.

Further, it makes sense to choose a useful function for the POW. For example, the Needleman Wunsh or Smith Waterman algorithms. Thus this altcoin may have a real price.