Bitcoin Forum

EDIT:

THIS IS FOR SURE A SCAM. DO NOT GO INTO THIS.

I (almost) fell for a scam (i.e. I am an idiot/sucker). I'm just leaving this post so that I'm reminded about how fucking dumb I am. Luckily we were warned in time.

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Poker by Proxy (referral link): (there was a link here)

Summary:
1 - Deposit 0.01 BTC or more.
2 - Every day, watch your balance go up or down in a typical [-5%, +5%] range.
3 - Withdraw at any time.

Step (2) above happens as a side-effect of a team of six (?) poker pros hitting online and offline poker tables (or they take it and play satoshi dice, for all we know).

So, I deposited 0.1000 BTC yesterday (Nov 19th).

Today I have 0.1023, due to their "+2.3%" result for Nov 20th. So I got lucky, and it seems to work.

They seem to have a pretty decent results track record, with just 4 losing days out of 20 days this month. The typical loss day looks like "-4%" and the typical win day seems to be around "+2.5%".

They seem to be in operation for about two months now. You can take their full track record and do a simulation, i.e., assume you deposited 1 BTC at the beginning of one of their months, then start multiplying by the percentage increase or decrease. E.g. for a 2.3% increase, multiply by (1.0 + 0.023) and for a 4% decrease, multiply by (1.0 - 0.04).

If they manage to perform exactly as they are now (and don't decide to disappear with the BTCs) this so far seems better than watching stocks go down on CryptoStocks.

Also, if you refer someone and they earn $X in a day, they deposit an additional $X/10 in your account.

without knowing WHO these "PRO's" are...no option.

For anyone wanting to join by the homepage link, without a referral.
https://www.pokerbyproxy.com/
Who is the owner of this site?  Is he/she on bitcointalk?  I am considering investing a few bitcoins.

Edit:  Oh wait, if they are anonymous kids playing with my money... Nevermind.

seems like a HYIP to me, just with a different theme

I don't think this qualifies as an "investment," even if they use that word on their website. It is giving money so people gamble in a non-house-edge game (or so we are told).

well thats a first, plus no information what so ever about the PRO players.  ???

I ordered a withdrawal of 0.05 to see if it actually happens or whether this is just a sophisticated BTC black hole.

all the best mate , as all other programs, they will payout in the early stages : )

Hmmm...

High-Yield Investment Program: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-yield_investment_program (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-yield_investment_program)

Okay, thinking mode on.

They (claim to) make money by playing Poker, not by the money they get from the "pyramidal" aspect of referral marketing.

I know it is possible to profit from Poker if you are extremely good (to beat the Rake *and* the other players). I have no idea how common that is and how good are the expected daily returns of the "good poker player" population. Hmmm...

Of course, this could be nothing more than a sophisticated scam. Nothing is easier than putting up a web front and even "paying out" early adopters. At some point you just vanish with whatever money/BTC is deposited at the time you decide to vanish.

This would mean the people running this website are basically evil, since, in theory, this is a business model that could work. I'm wondering why nobody has thought of this before. Perhaps there are other sites like this one out there.

I'm wondering whether they choose to remain anonymous since "online gambling" is illegal in the US.

As you can see other HYIP sites run with the same concept as well.
It's all mostly daily return based, concept may be different but they come in all shapes and sizes.

I am 100% certain its a hyip. PRO poker players would rather make money them self then doing this, also he didn't reveal any names of those PROs. Plus gambling is for fun, not for earning a life. Only gamble what you can afford to lose as in the long run, house always wins.

edit : they have even listed them self on hyip monitors http://www.allhyipmonitors.com/details/pokerbyproxy.com 
http://www.talkgold.com/forum/r399815-.html
http://www.azhyipmonitor.com/hyip_poker_by_proxy.html

and many more

just another devious scam to trick the naive  :'(

By "HYIP" you mean a thoroughly evil, sophisticated scam. Wow.

Well, live and learn!

I ordered a full withdrawal of my restaurant meal. Let's see if it comes back "in 24 hours." If it doesn't, I'll let you know.

Edit: They just sent in 0.053 and 0.05.  (Edit of Edit: 0.0523)

Well, too many red flags and warnings on this one. What a shame, the concept seems realizable.

Hey, did I just make a one-day profit on a random ponzi scheme? Not bad :-)

Edit: And before I forget, hey board, thanks for the heads-up. One less sucker in the world.

yes, not sophisticated, its a ponzi, with assorted coverups . lol . Keep us updated.

And finally, the final red flag: NO WITHDRAWAL FEES!

No investment scheme EVER *not* charge withdrawal fees! :-)

Just cashout everything while you still can : )

Yup, just did! Thanks!!

HYIP, beware! Could work out if you withdraw early enough, but dont deposit your life savings! ;)

they say they have the best poker team in the world. such a lie, lol.

You should edit your first post, before more people fall for the scam. (although they have not scammed YET, it's very likely that they will once they have enough invested money)

Once they reach their ROI + profits, site will be gone.

Good idea. Just did it. Thanks.

Once you actually think about things, a scam is pretty easy to spot.

This is obviously a scam because it works too smoothly. A real funds-pooling poker operation would never pay out a % on a random deposit made on any random hour of the day. They would need a cutoff time to take the whole balance to casino tables. To account for all of this, it would be a massive amount of work.

Next, it is unlikely that there would be absolutely no mismatch between what is deposited and what the players manage to wager. There would be problems; they would have a % win on what they managed to wager and that would have to be diluted among the deposits they didn't manage to wager. They would end up talking about this.

Then there's the aggressive referral system. 10%? Right.

Then, they claim to make "through reviews of bad hands." This is possible, but would take ages and is really impractical. No "pros" would allow themselves to have their plays reviewed by "managers."

Then, there's the neato uniform distribution of losses, almost 4-1-4-1-4-1. No two consecutive loss days. Right.

Then, there is no blog. That's where all the minor problems that an actual operation (of anything) would have been reported.

Then, there are the typos.

Then there's the claim of "best poker players in the world" that I didn't spot, which is ludicrous.

And of course, if you already knew about HYIP, you would pattern-match the +/- percentage scheme to other scams. A legitimate business would never adopt a scheme that would pattern-match so directly to known scam schemes.

The human race is intriguing. :-)

Glad you did, we wouldnt want to mislead people :)

Doh, forgot to take out the link (in case "THIS IS A SCAM" is not sufficient :-). Now it is done.

SHIT, just logged in and I have one referral. Luckily their system shows their e-mail address. I'm going to warn him/her by pointing to this thread.

Thats good of you, also did you get the cashout ?

Yes, they paid me back.

Here's their ad banner:
https://pokerbyproxy.com/banners/pbp7.gif

It says "Invest in the world's best poker team". It is obvious that they are lying.

NOT PAYING

THIS IS COPY FROM POKER BY PROXY HISTORY AND TICKET FROM SUPORT
1.2416 btc i have on this site it is 1200$
what is with withdraw request ?
From administrator
Sent on November 26th 2013
What about it?

Jack

From administrator
Sent on November 26th 2013
Within 48 hours. We are just waiting on an incoming funding order.

Jack

----------------------------------
api on 26/11/2013 16:39:50
when will you send btc from withdraw ?

History

Below you will find a detailed list of all transactions that have occurred in your Poker By Proxy account. If you have any questions or concerns, please contact one of our customer support specialists using our support centre.
Date Message
11/11/2013 23:12 Your investments have earned you 0.0012 bitcoins
11/11/2013 17:10 Bitcoin deposit for 0.1000 bitcoins completed [Ref: bitcoin_3JdJc7IK]
11/11/2013 09:27 Account updated
11/11/2013 08:59 Account created

History

Below you will find a detailed list of all transactions that have occurred in your Poker By Proxy account. If you have any questions or concerns, please contact one of our customer support specialists using our support centre.
Date Message
25/11/2013 20:18 Your investments have earned you 0.0104 bitcoins
25/11/2013 18:37 Bitcoin withdrawal request for 0.7416 bitcoins
24/11/2013 22:38 Your investments have earned you 0.0138 bitcoins
24/11/2013 21:47 Account updated
23/11/2013 20:12 Your investments have earned you 0.0357 bitcoins
22/11/2013 21:22 Your investments have earned you 0.0134 bitcoins
21/11/2013 20:36 Your investments have earned you 0.0242 bitcoins
21/11/2013 17:31 Bitcoin deposit for 0.4938 bitcoins completed [Ref: bitcoin_LzObpo89]
20/11/2013 22:03 Your investments have earned you 0.0148 bitcoins
19/11/2013 22:09 Your investments have lost 0.0263 bitcoins
18/11/2013 21:20 Your investments have earned you 0.0157 bitcoins
17/11/2013 16:56 Your investments have earned you 0.0136 bitcoins
16/11/2013 23:25 Your investments have earned you 0.0111 bitcoins
15/11/2013 23:16 Your investments have earned you 0.0195 bitcoins
15/11/2013 21:12 Bitcoin withdrawal for 0.5000 bitcoins completed [Ref: 1MEEprngkH6aqk7By5VcVcBDSWoR1jTybK]
15/11/2013 20:10 Bitcoin withdrawal request for 0.50 bitcoins
14/11/2013 23:42 Your investments have lost 0.0333 bitcoins
13/11/2013 22:59 Your investments have earned you 0.0147 bitcoins
12/11/2013 21:05 Your investments have earned you 0.0297 bitcoins
12/11/2013 15:54 Bitcoin deposit for 1.0000 bitcoins completed [Ref: bitcoin_3nhPpTT9]
1, 2
Investment Information

Minimum Investment is $25 Maximum Investment is $200,000 Variable Returns Paid Daily (Ranging from -5% to +25%) You can withdraw any of all of your balance at any time. Accounts are automatically compounded into one account balance.

"LOL"?

    https://www.pokerbyproxy.com/results/2013/11/29.html

Meanwhile I had found another scam marker: the flashing graphic in the front page shows a blackjack table (or some similar game) with a dealer, completely unrelated to poker. And the site opens with "Do you love Poker"? Clearly the maker of this website does not love poker...

Obey

LMFAO. I'm a pro poker player, and your bankroll will have way higher swings (up and down) than 3%~   LOL'd so hard at -99% lost. Of course PayPal scammed them.

Honestly, I love the site layout, but obviously I hate the whole fucking SCAM part.

Love how in the "how it works" text it starts with: "Poker by Proxy works by taking your money" :)

And just to point out the obvious, if these players really were "the best in the world" why would they sell a large percentage of their action, doesn't exactly make much sense.