Bitcoin Forum

Miners you SEE... YOU CONTROL THE PRICES!!! PULL ALL YOUR SELL ORDERS NOW!!

What about people that have tens of thousands of coins to play and manipulate with?

Lets see how good of an idea this is. Say your a miner and you pull your sell order out, will all other miners do the same?
With bitcoins price that continues to fall, you will hold your bitcoins and they will become worthless. Do you really want your mining operations to actually cost you money? Sell as fast as you can in a falling market, or somebody else will sell and take money that could have been yours.

Respectfully, I disagree.  Your mining profit over the next 6 months, year, 2 years, is far more important than your profit over the next few days.  It is actually smart to wait out a panic sell, and not follow the lemmings.  Remember, the name of the game is buy low sell high, not the reverse.

Even Warren Buffet says, "Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful."

warren buffet also admits the dynamics have recently changed and he has no clue what's going on

You sound a little desperate.  Bold text and capitalised.  Have you paid off your mining rigs yet?  I think we know the answer to that question.

Miners do not control bitcoin's value.  The market does.  Bitcoins could fall to $5 tomorrow and there's nothing miners could do about it.  There are already more than enough bitcoins out there for investors and speculators to play with.  Even if every miner pulled out tomorrow there would be no upward change in value.  If anything, value would suddenly plummet as transactions would take days to process.  It's a fundamental point that's often lost on these forums.  People thinking mining activity and difficulty drive price upwards.

I have a transaction coming in from DeepBit at the moment.  6 hours and zero confirmations.  Imagine running a business this way.  "Thank you for your payment sir, please wait a day at the checkout"

Bitcoins can only drop to $5 a coin, if the miners decide to sell them at that price...  ;D . I for one won't sell you my Bitcoins for five bucks. No way, they are worth way more than that, and me and you both know that :).

I wouldn't sell a bitcoin for $5 either.  It costs more in electricity to produce at the current difficulty rate.  The problem is no one really knows how many people are out there with bitcoins mined when difficulty was 1/10th what it is today, or speculators/investors who bought in at 50c a bitcoin.  They would be quite happy to sell a bitcoin at $5 if they thought the price wasn't going to go higher.

just put up a sell order @ $11.1, 10 BTC. Hopefully somebody takes it.

The number of coins mined at 1/10th current difficulty, and bought by speculators at 50 cents each, is finite. Sure, those people might end up selling at $5, but when those coins are gone, then miners have a majority of potential supply.

WTF? 10 BTC is nothing...
trolling?

NOt trolling. Selling. Actually the order was executed at $11.07, 10.54 BTC in total. Well, I recieved the coins as the payment from a guy in the forum who is supposed to pay me in $116 for buying my Radeon 5830 card. And I'm happy to sell considering the price went to under $9 today. BTW, the majority of my coins were sold at $13.

Because miners will sell at almost any selling price (not everyone but the ones that have made heavy investments in new rigs), its the buyer (the one that put in real USD in to the exchanges) that decide the price, I would guess if they understand that, the price should be around 5 dollars now.

but the Miners are extremely stupid to give all the Bitcoins to the market instead hold them in bad times and slowly sell in good times...
there are to many sellers who dont make it possible to raise the price...
the other direction: the sellers won't sell under 9-10 bux (right now)
theire both who decide the price
but the sellers have to be careful! buyers won't have an infinite amount of money

Fazit:
The Miners shall hold all the bitcoins and wait until ther is more positive going on again in the world of BTC and then sell particially and get much more money!
The miners and large investors control the market why dont you want the price go up? you could make much more money and make bitcoin a real currency!

I want the price to go up, but why should I buy now when I know at current rate bitcoins are created at a rate of
365 x 7200 x 10 dollars =  26 280 000 dollars / year . With all that has happened last weeks I can't see that it will get in big amounts of money in to the bitcoin economy anytime soon, 26 million dollars is only the printing press (or inflation) of newly created money, besides that we have 7 million bitcoins in circulation already, or in USD terms, 7 000 000 x 10 = 70 000 000 USD that can at any point be sold at the exchanges. You do the math.

After all things that have happened, do you see big deposit coming in soon at the big exchanges, because I can promise you this, the miners will sell at 10 dollars, even at 7-8 dollars they still make a good profit if they have pretty low electric costs. Because they have already made good money on their business, they will probably sell even at 6 dollars. Panic on that and you will maybe see 5 or even 4 dollar prices very soon.

26 MILLION dollars is a lot of money being created this coming year (aug 2011 - aug 2012), get that! Compare that to what people have invested in mining rigs, is not even close to those numbers. Miners are right now the winners because the direct buyer don't understand economics.

I don't know what all this fuzz is even about. It's hilarious though. All the miners who think their coins are worth more, they should not only stop selling, but start BUYING. Put all your cash online and see where it gets you.

Until then the market will have its way, and at the moment we are pointing downwards. Basically to the point where fresh money added to the market will be able to meet up with the daily supply of 7200 coins. If miners won't sell now it won't change a thing. They will all sell later much lower, thinking how stupid were they trying to fight the market. Seems like some don't even understand what that means.

New trading channel will most likely be $9 to $11, until next batch of 200k coins (in a month or three ) won't be able to meet the demand for all these coins and lower we go again. All this mumbo jumbo about bitcoins being worth more is based on the fact that price got so high, when everyone and their grandma was hyping this all over the internet. The result was we got a group of fools who started depositing all this extra cash all of a sudden buying 500k coins and running price  from $10 to $33. It was a perfect setup. Well problem is, there is 7 million coins out there and most of those were mined when price was well below $5 not to even mention all the stuff from pre April time when price was sub $1.

Good luck to all the miners not selling here and now.

shure they are, but they could win more...
lets see: you can produce bitcoins without putting them on the market, what means, the miners could hold the value higher and get more money...

i think the aim is to get much more investors, this is only possible, if there is more in the mainstream media, whitch comes automatically, with a higher price (>20$) and with a stable increase of the value...

MINERS! QUIT WITH FEAR AND THINK LONGTERM!

Then you are speculating, and speculators usually lose their money in the long run. Start investing smart. If you as a direct buyer buy the newly created bitcoins from the miner, you will do two things, you are the one that pays his profit, and you are the one that will want him to invest more in his mining business. As a direct buyer you should think the other way around, you want to make the miner think, "wait now, isn't it better to invest directly in the currency?", that after that YOU have bought in, then and only then you as a direct buyer are the winner(as an investor), if prices remain at this levels the miner is the one that makes money on you holding your bitcoins, or even more true the ones that buy today.

Mmm, this very much reminds me of investors in shares who are seeing the value of their shares going down.  "Idiots! Stop selling! The stock would go up if they all did what I say"  The problem is, each person acts on their own and in their own interests.  The tragedy of the commons, if you will.

If you truly believe people are artificially driving down the price of bitcoins through panic and fear, then I suggest loading up your MtGox account with Euros or dollars and buying as many bitcoins as you can.  You'll either be rich, or eating baked beans for the next few years.  Either way, if things don't turn out your way you can blame everyone else :-)

Especially the large investors are interested in volatility. Selling a couple thousand bitcoins into an already crashing market will surely drive the price way lower. That way, you're able to rebuy at a lower exchange rate, once volume catches up in those lower areas. Effectively, you'll end up with more bitcoins without having to pay anything.
That's why your idea of investors wanting the price to go up is wrong. They simply don't care, as long as things keep moving.

A) If you want to trade, a market see-saw is fantastic as you can make real cash starting from peanuts.

B) If you want to actively manage your investment, it's fantastic as you can help it grow.

C) If you want to feel that you have a "nest egg" tucked away somewhere then it's a nightmare as you'll never know if it'll hatch.

Just fit yourself into group A, B or C and well, do your thing.

You need money to control the prices and early adopter money is in coins so they must sell coins at a loss to manipulate the markets.  They have done this but are running out of money and that's why the price is continuing to fall.

Lots of the old timers remember the big crash from $1 down to $0.50.  Bitcoin lost 50% of its value!!! Lots of people were very depressed.  If they sold and decided to stay out, I wonder how they would feel now.

Early adopters never really sell at a loss! They got their coins @ sub pennies! This is still very much profit territory!

Well, the buyers are certainly having trouble getting the price lower than $6.60! Someone put in an order to sell 2800BTC this morning! Built steps of 100BTC, @$.01 increments...slowly but surely, it's been selling for what he wants!

Only in that they can chose to sell or not.  If no one wants to pay a higher price for bitcoins, it wont matter how much you stop selling; however, miners could certainly flood the market and drive bitcoin to new, and exciting lows.

I for one appreciate the generosity and virtue of all those holders of bitcoins that are redistributing their coins to others at a cheap and affordable cost. It is in the true spirit of bitcoins that we share bitcoins with our others so that a greater number of people can gain wealth in the next rally. The more people who have a stake in bitcoin, the more people will be spreading the word and adding merchants to the economy. It needs to spread out. So kick back, relax, and enjoy the show. The world is going to be changing.

What would it help me if the price reaches $100 if it's only that high as long as nobody sells?

I have the impression that the OP would like to see something like a Miners Guild that would set the price and prevent anyone from selling below it.

Bingo.


I would actually love to see this. All free market cartels in history have failed so it would be interesting to see it happen again and not just read about it.

Especially when there is no way to enforce the cartel price.