Bitcoin Forum

It's been 144 days, since I've placed an order with BL for mining equipment, well..almost five months.

No equipment have arrived, they don't respond to phone calls, they don't respond to emails.

I tried to file dispute claim with PayPal, it won't even go through, I only wonder how deep this thing goes. It must be the biggest scum of of the 21st. They use our money to build the mining equipment, and then they use it for themselves, and obviously make millions in process. It's a well known secret that Butterfly Labs runs a large mining operation, while pre-ordered customers are waiting for the hardware.

Well, I don't intend to waste any of my time anymore, I'm gonna alert every government agency in the country what's going on their turf, under their noses. We all know about Butterfly Labs CEO, a simple criminal. I'm sure people who work for him, know it too, and cover for him. The time will come for everybody to answer.

Looking for a few good, ambitious lawyers, to start class action suit against mullti million dollar company.

Let me know what you think about it.

Peace.

We got our miners - it did take time, but they arrived. Be patient. The ROI (despite what people are saying) is still easy to obtain. In 6 weeks of mining, we've recouped almost 50% of our investment. No logical reason not to break even in less than 3 months and have 9 months of pure profit this year alone.

All was been told many times already here:

Butterflylabs Huge SCAM
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=114329.0

its your own fault u ordered from some scammers. forum was full of bad articles about them, and u still ordered, why ?

I've heard that orders are being delivered, they just take lots and lots of time to arrive!

[Traffic these days is horrible  ;)]

I hope you receive your Miner this year still, maybe Christmas comes earlier, who knows?  ;)

It's not some case of a guy scamming people on ebay. We're taking about large company, with large production capabilities. When this thing brakes, they gonna see FBI braking their gates, and helicopters will fly above them. I guess the greed knows no boundaries.

People who work there, know enough about what's going on in there, and keep their mouths shut, and that's a felony.

Sorry to hear, jarr.  There are a lot of people who jumped in late and are eating the very end of the stick with this company still.  I'm glad they changed their product and raised prices which forced me to turn way from buying more equipment from them.  The only thing you can do is only wait or try to get a refund.  Keep querying them about your order status maybe. 

Lots of people lost out huge potential gains because of this company, asking for BTC only payments originally for the early adoptors.  Not sure of your situation but it's a life lesson.  Always do your due diligence, in everything.

Well, I don't thing is about loosing potential gains, its more about right and wrong. If we let people like that run businesses in this country, we gonna end up on the streets.

You can't be really timid about it, business is about contract between buyer and seller. If the seller doesn't follow good business conduct, the seller becomes liable.

I just wonder; they hold my money for five months, and it wasn't a loan. They either refuse, or can't deliver the promised merchandise. More likely refuse, because it makes so much profit for them. I would say I am an investor in the company, and they should pay dividends on my investment. What's your thought on this, and how many of you out there, waiting for the promised hardware.

And don't forget one thing, the hardware you have ordered in June, is obsolete, and substandard today. Last but not least, the amount of bitcoin, is set, it won't last forever. They will run out next year. Not much time left...

Peace.

It amazes me how people fall for the same scams over and over.

Anyways you might like to add your vote for least reliable company here...

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=323857.0

I'll not spoil it for you by telling you who is winning.  ;)

Try fill your complaint with the FTC

How to file a FTC complaint against BFL's illegal business practices
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=319522.0

BTW, they promising monarch card for early next year, I guess it will be interesting to see discussions about their delivery times next year as well

Well, my point here Gator, those people belong behind bars, it's not a small operation. we're talking millions. And its not going away.

@wearepoor

Next year you gonna need 5T to mine anything, in mean time, they get rich at your expense.

So do the Jalapenno's actually ship straight away? It says they are ready to go now...

I don't think filing FTC complaint against BFL is really enough. Just think about, they use my money to build a hardware, which they use to mine a currency. I mean even at their website, you can see the picture; lines of servers filled up with mining cards, we are waiting for. In mean time they sell the hashing power we've paid for, to other people. They offer it like its available. And they tell me, I should wait. Actually they don't tell me anything, cause they don't respond to my emails.

Like I said, we should file for dividends, not for refunds.

Sounds fair, you early "investors"  funded their mining ventures.

You have no clue about what Bitcoin is, how it works, or the mechanism by which it's generated.

Yes, the amount of Bitcoin is finite (possible future changes/upgrades to the system to increase the limit of 21,000,000,000BTC notwithstanding).  Per the current parameters of the code, it will take over 100 years for the last block reward to be generated. The general consensus is somewhere around the year 2140'ish. 

There is absolutely ZERO possibility that they will "run out next year". 

If you don't even understand the basic principle of how/when BTC are generated, good luck masterminding any sort of legal action against BFL, even if they may deserve to be sued or have charges brought against them.

I don't really care how it works, and the mechanism by which it's generated.  My thorough understanding of the mechanism behind the bitcoins has nothing to do with this case.

All I want is the merchandise that I've ordered.

But I'm pretty sure that, some time next year mining might be beyond any of us, cost wise. You gonna need an access to a server, not just 600Gh mining card.

Anyways here it is:

Bitcoin has a maximum 21 million limit: The total number of Bitcoins that will be issued is capped at 21 million. The Bitcoin “mining”3 process presently creates 25 Bitcoins every 10 minutes (the number created will be halved every four years), so that limit will not be reached until the year 2140. While Bitcoin critics argue that the maximum limit is not large enough, supporters maintain that since each Bitcoin is divisible to eight decimal places, the number of fractional Bitcoins (called “satoshis”) – at 21 x 1014 – will be more than enough for all conceivable applications. Conventional currencies, on the other hand, can be issued without limit.

We started with shovels, now we're using jackhammers. In 4-6 months, you're gonna need an excavator. How many of you can afford to buy an excavator?

Eventually, when they ship those shovels and jackhammers, we gonna loose the fight against the excavators. And, that's a fact.

ummmmm, are you talking about ROI in purely fiat terms?

Lets run a little thought experiment, just for arguments sake pretend for a minute that back when you ordered your BFL equipment you decided instead to take that money and buy BTC, at the market rate they were going for then.  Now fast forward to today.  Still feeling rosy about your "ROI"?

Much as I sympathise most of the info about the folks involved was known all along

Isn't caveat emptor one of the pillars of the btc world?

Mind you, I am not saying for a moment that there is definitively no case for a lawsuit

I just don't know as I am not a lawyer..

To be honest here, when I started to see how they treated anyone with a valid question of concern, I began to suspect BFL in Dec of 2012. I seem to always give everyone the benefit of the doubt.

After the second set of delays I asked for my money back. The company is a crook and I hope people realize this BEFORE they place pre-orders.

I have caught BFL's COO in so many lies that it would make a book.

My Avatar say's it all.

If you do not get the products on time, it is your right to ask for a refund and claim one.

Companies in this industry must look out for consumer rights and aim for high end consumer satisfaction in order to survive.

Imagine getting your HW five months back.. you would be rich now...

Unless they know it will be not long lasting business. BFL preffer find new custommers and get out of the old max by delaying shipment as long as possible.

After posting this non-sense , please refrain to post any advice till you actually know something about how bitcoin works.

I can't find sympathy for you anymore although you have fall int BFL trap.

It's definitely a 'meh' situation... they kept pushing back the release date, but at least they delivered a product eventually

Maybe BFL are using the preordered miners to mine for themselves in the meantime?

We couldn't find Satoshi  but we stumbled across Sherlock
MAYBE????

*rolls eyes* Imagine getting a list of lottery winning numbers five months back.. you would be rich now...

:-)

 You stated, in absolute terms, that bitcoins "will run out next year". Regardless of how difficult or unfeasible it becomes to mine, the rate of release of new bitcoins into the economy remains relatively fixed, so that statement was completely and utterly wrong.

The amount of hashing power on the network has little-to-no impact on the rate of generation of new bitcoins, over the long term, as the system self-regulates and adjusts to keep the average rate of block release at 10 minutes.  So your analogy about excavators and shovels is pointless and asinine to your statement that bitcoins will "run out next year", as one has nothing to do with the other.  If you'd made the argument that BFL's pathetic rate of production and shipping will likely render almost all their new products useless due to difficulty increases, that would've made sense.

Looks like you are having a sad day eh?

You just failed at being Sherlock this time.

Do the other vendors (e.g., Avalon) have similar delays in their deliveries?

@ACHZMAN

Yea... I stated in absolute terms...

What's wrong with you people, were you growing up without any friends?

You ever heard the quote by Yogi Berra: "A nickel ain't worth a dime anymory", or "It's like deja-vu all over again". Well, that's called an American language. When we talk, it doesn't have to sound like somebody just quoted CISCO manual, unless you wanna sound like this.

We all know how long Bitcoins will last, it's all out there. But we might go, and dig for gold; in the Alaskan Klondike Territory, with a shovel and a pick. I'm certain the gold is still out there, and plenty of it, except you might need about a billion dollars, just to buy your mining equipment.

Who BFL use a miner and tell you there are delays? No way dude BFL is so legit and they never have mislead the customer. I trust them completely. -Sarcasm