Bitcoin Forum

This something to ponder.
France consider a cryptocurrency is a movable property.
It is consider as a property instead of currency.
https://cointelegraph.com/news/france-crypto-is-now-moveable-property-tax-down-from-45-to-19-percent

France is now ruled that cryptocurrency sales are in principle of the category of capital gains of movable property with some exemption. Movable property refers to tangible and intangible assets. France is generally supportive of cryptocurrencies and the country will take a lead  in regulation.

The biggest bonus from this is, if you live in France and are a cryptocurrency investor or trader is the reduce amount of tax you now have to pay on your profits. 45% down to 19% is a huge win for bigger investors.

this is somewhat a sad thing though. but it is expected since the altcoins are not really currencies despite what their name suggests. so it is only logical to consider them as property, commodity, security,... instead of considering them as a currency.
bitcoin is a whole different story though. even in Japan they only accepted bitcoin as a currency not the altcoins.

It is good to hear that cryptocurrency is being considered as a property, asset and the like, especially at a time when other countries are ignoring the new and yet inevitable invention under different pretexts. As to me, crypto cannot take over fiat money, given its volatility and its numbers. There are hundreds of coins and which coin can be considered as a fiat money. Only the government can issue only one digital currency which can have capacity to replace fiat money. Others will be put into other categories.

Sad but true, as most of people treat alts more like stocks, something they trade, not use and earn. It seems a bit weird that cryptos are considered to be property, though, since it means people will not be able to pay with them or declare the salary received in coins.
While reducing the taxes from 45% from 19% sounds good, I think 19% is still unjustifiably high. People should feel encouraged to do business with cryptocurrencies legally. As they are used to paying no taxes, it would be best to set low tax fees (no more than 10%) at least for the time being. This would still be beneficial both for the government and for the crypto community. I don't understand why the taxes should be so high.

it is better to be properties than baned. Bitcoin is and cryptocurrency is banned in China is bad. In France as movable properties are good. There are many kinds opportunities for token holders to have properties. In this situation. People can have good wealth in the digital world.

This is still bad news for the crypto world...

Crypto currencies are currencies, as the name says, to be used as electronic payment and should not be taxed.

1. If you buy GBP with EURO, is GBP considered to be movable property? Of course not.

2. Let's say you buy GBP with EURO, if GBP increases in value compared to EURO does that mean you are making a profit and should be taxed? Of course not.

Mmm yeah, you need to pay tax for that. That thing called income tax. read here http://www.mrtaxman.com.au/blog/foreign-currency-trading and here https://money.stackexchange.com/questions/43586/tax-consequences-when-foreign-currency-changes-in-value

Good that it lowers the taxes involved, but not good that it's not considered currency and who knows what kind of regulations wait in the wings for a non-currency asset that competes with the government's money monopoly.

That's a great news as it also decreases the tax rate for France citizens.
It's weird that we are happy that they now recognize it as a property as all the bitcoin supporters wants their bitcoin to be considered and called a currency other then an asset, but the regulators change our mind with their absolutely ridiculous tax rate

The problem here is that due to the dual faces of Cryptoasset we are going to see many countries with different definitions of the asset. About the reduction in tax, I don't think there is much to be celebrated here because this seems to be an average tax in most of the countries

This is very, very good news, probably such decisions are made after Germany decided to use bitcoin quite on legal grounds, I hope this news will respond positively to the price of bitcoin

it is a good news. I like to hear that. the country should accept bitcoin. no reason to refuse the crypto currency. bitcoin is the future currency.

Does it mean we have something to celebrate here?though i was thinking about what if france accept crypto as currency instead of  property?since currency is more functional than a property..but its better that they are recognized because its a positive thing and maybe a start of someting to expect in future

This is very good news! Crypto currency is distributed to the whole world, which indicates the success of the currency
Soon we will all forget about old currencies and will only use crypto currency)

Who cares what they think as long as we don't need to ask their opinion? Person A sells his product to Person B. Person B pays in BTC, Person A gets his money and delivers the product to Person B. As long as they don't touch to government ill money (FIAT), nobody cares what the government thinks.

Nobody would give a damn If they classified BTC as gold v2.0. Maybe a little at first.

Tax-wise, It is positive news though for those who've been thinking to get back in FIAT nightmare.

Meanwhile Bank of France puts this on youtube:

The Banque de France’s view on bitcoin and other crypto-assets (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dqaw9-NTd3c)

Interesting "land of the free" the United States and Australia are :) I'm sorry for you guys.

Although, I wasn't saying you need to convert GBP back to EURO to get your profits as you wouldn't need to do that with crypto currency either. You use it to buy things online and if you need to exchange it back to FIAT the exchanges would be taxed and you would pay a commission.

Either way, I see there are some thresholds in place for FIAT exchanges and those should be the same for crypto too.

Great news for those living there,and good news for the people who are using our platform as it is another step for the massive adoption.I do believe that this is much more easier than what we are expected,as long as theres new countries that are adopting cryptocurrencies  there will still be some progress to grow slowly but surely.

2 benefit with this order -
1st is now crypto have a legal status there , so no doubt of ban .
2nd is sharp reduction in taxes to be paid on these coins .

Isn't that a good news to those in France for crypto to be considered a property.

But before that law does they have to pay any taxes? Taxation is a pretty fair thing for cryptocurrency but I bet some traders now loosing money

Investing in altcoins are profitable and good for long term but there are few things to consider before investing to make sure the coin you're going to choose is unlikely to be delisted in exchanges after few months or years. The coin should be valuable and has uses with features that can help real problem. Usually new investors prefer to hodl the popular ones or belong to top 10 of CMC. I have eth, neo, ltc, monero and ripple in my crypto-portfolio and planning to add additional coins if I have the capital.
I suggest dont rely with our suggestions and do your own research because its important to have your own knowledge and understanding in the particular coin you want to invest in.

I think the news is not entirely bad because France’s Conseil d’Etat has reduced the tax rate from 45% to 19%

Personally I don't think of it as movable property


Yes because you get income and it is taxed

Thats the coolest thing ever happened to any country in the world. God dam they have decreased the charges of tax from ATH 45% to all the way down to 19%. Thats just miracle for the francis people. I mean here is my country who is not even able to decide whether they should be allowing the use of Bitcoin or not and there is france, making it perfectly legal and managed.

Yeah thats the news we should here about the cryto currencies all the time.

Why not? People are buying cryptocurrency with national fiats so the government loosing something in that business. It should be taxed

On the good side, it is accepted by the government and not being banned. On the not so good side, it is not considered as a currency which is what digital currencies are meant to be.

Until recently, cryptocurrencies were simple games and speculations of little value, now for governments become mobile properties. I think it's good news, because it means to recognize their value, and France is working on a regulation of the cryptocurrency sector from what I read

in my country unfortunately cryptocurrency is not regulated because the legislation has not been amended accordingly, except for taxation .. it's awful.

France is one of the big countries that has always been in favor of the cryptocurrency sector, considering them as a mobile property means paying taxes and then legalizing them. I hope that the example of this country will also be taken by many other governments, and a general regulation of the sector will be reached as soon as possible

That's good thing. That huge tax been trim on crypto. It a good thing on crypto happening around the world.

This is huge. Wow. Tres bon haha

Why not?  Cryopto is sold on fiat and investors gain a fiat. There is no distinction on conventional business.
And 19% tax is fair enough. 

It's not a good idea to amend the law just for the sake of crypto. It should be add or pass another law just for the taxation of crypto.
I think Executive Order is enough.

Once countries realise they can't ignore crypto, then they will legislate to ensure they get their "cut" of it.  Whether that is capital gains tax (as a tangible asset) or income tax (when seen as a currency), each country will do what they can to ensure they get whatever they can. 

That is the beauty of privacy coins... once a marketplace exists (eg. SAFEX later in the year), then buying untraceable goods and services will allow us to keep our crypto to ourselves.

kind of funny if responding to the policies that are applied to this country. somehow the way their minds. It is certainly very contrary to what happened in Japan. just look at how the State of the crypto there. where they are very outstanding free and it also helps the Japanese economy being highly life without problems.

What income do you get? You just exchanged your money in a different currency. I'm not saying you convert it back to EURO or even if you do it shouldn't be taxed.

If GBP devalues compared to the EURO do you report the loss anywhere? I don't think you get any compensation from the government when you lose money now, do you?

Interesting, why not digital assets like in most countries?

This is the sign that no one can stop cryptocurrency from booming. It is inevitable and any country that will again cryptocurrency will regret it later. They need to catch up with the technology or else they will lose the chance to be one of the pioneer in the industry.

On my opinion cryptocurrencies today cannot be considered as currency. We buy/sell this actually using fiat. Taxing it is fair enough. This have no difference on conventional business.
France give a fair tax percentage (19%) to its Citizens.

something in the article caught my attention: "Also in March, France’s financial market regulator was reported to be looking into legislation that would encourage the development of Initial Coin Offerings (ICO)." I think it's a good idea to regulate ICOs as a measure to counter scammers and such.

Crytocurrency in Japan is already widely accepted. Now France is making move on the improvement of Crypto. That's really good news that they want the ICO to be improved.

It is hard to say that cryptocurrency can be a real currency.
Because the liquidity of these tokens is very poor, most of the time only the value of speculation.

That's not good news. I think one of the main advantages of cryptocurrency is anonymity. Although legalization has its advantages.

Why different story with bitcoin? As I am aware of even people are using it to trade and earn money in the process since in the reality price is volatile. Yes you can find and buy real useful things with it but on overall basis even if you buy some stuff with it, the merchant, the seller will most likely go and transfer to fiat. Fiat is safer in terms that you still need it to pay off your basic needs and because most likely you have to pay somebody else in the process of selling. I still think that bitcoin is more like an asset, for instance when we are going into the bull run, when FOMO kicks in, you can clearly see that there are many more transactions on the network, at least this shows you for what is it being used, to buy altcoins and gamble there.

can someone please explain in simple terms what does this mean for the crypto community?

This could be good for tax purposes as capital gains tax is better than income tax, but to not be recognised as a currency could be a problem for mass adoption. It needs to be used to purchase items so without the right framework it will be difficult to implement crypto in the economy

I think is not yet a concern. For example gold can be a currency and a property.  The purchase power of crypto is possible.

It is a good new to all cryptocurrency enthusiast. This news will make cryto great again. I am expecting a bull run after the release of the news. The clock is ticking before another all time high in coinmarketcap strikes again.

Somehow this news can contributes. We will expect remarkable rise of price in the next few months.

I am glad that France supports cryptocurrency and tries to legalize it.

I wonder if this decision to lower the tax rate has been made to encourage more people to declare their crypto gains. Probably a lot of people didn't bother to declare when they would have to pay 45%, but are now more likely to if they are only going to pay 19%. Or perhaps I'm just being cynical.

Well, I hope that they do the same thing in other countries as well. This will become a good news for people who do cryptocurrency related stuff in France. But even though this is possible in France, this thing will be hard in countries like Russia and China. As long as the government wants to regulate bitcoin, this can still become a hard thing to do.

While the definition of the crypto currency in France as movable property is also not bad. The main thing is that crypto-alyuta is recognized as a participant in the trade turnover. In the future, the status of the crypto currency can be changed and refined. Moreover, in future, the issues of circulation of money in the countries of the European Union should have a unified approach, and in Germany, for example, crypto currency is recognized as a legal tender.

Don't bother guys,this only france and not the whole world,france only represents small margin of investos so theres nothing to be alarmed..and besides if they consider bitcoin is a property,this only mean one thing the chance of bitcoin in france has a big future to have a huge value,since properties increases value as time passed by and with bitcoin as property then this can be true

Glad to hear the news from France.  Wish to see more and more counties recognize crypto is a propety. And with that happen, I think will let more people to join the market.

I agree with you here. 19% tax rate still seems crazy high and 45% seems insane. I never knew that they charged such high tax rates on cryptocurrencies before. I am one of those people who doesn't shy away when it comes to paying taxes on a regular basis, but these rates are absolutely insane and something that would make me ponder whether I should pay taxes or not. Cryptocurrencies and FIAT are completely different in this aspect and I can completely why some people would not wish to pay their taxes thanks to the anonymity aspect of crypto. 6% seems way better in this aspect.

The thing is that, so many people out there still consider bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies as a commodities instead of real currency, they think that it's like you are owning gold, and it's worth as expensive as gold.
You can see that the adoption is still relatively low because small amount of cryptocurrencies users using it for paying daily expenses, instead, they using it for investment.

We cannot blame those uses Crypto as a daily expenses. It could be that's the only source of income they have.  All of us here adopt this thing because of money. Whatever purpose they use it that their rights.

Seems there is a domino effect. After Japan accept BTC as payment for Cars then USA and France make a move to credit the BTC or Crypto as a whole.

France authorities decision means that they doesn’t know what crypto really is. Furthermore if crypto will be approved as a currency it would become a great competitor of traditional currencies.

Though I respect the france government about this consideration but yet im not agreed on this,cryptocurrency is a virtual money and same as technology this is not a property that can be transferred as if nothing important.

I wish sooner france will reconsider this and place respect to our crypto community and to our currency here

Huh, this is a major twist in a perception of crypto by France. As I remember, they wanted to "destroy" cryptocurrencies a few months ago. On the other hand, considering it as a movable property... well, do our French friends need to care as their taxes will be dramatically lower?  ;D At least they did something with 45%, that was a crazy number. In my opinion, most of the investors will find a way how they will not pay anything, so good luck France, you will need it. xD (just kidding, I am not supporting France in a taxation)

Indeed that France is in the forefront on diving into massive adoption of cryptocurrency. For sure once France able to pull and have success on this in a long run, others countries will definitely learn from this. Good luck France. 

For now, it would be the best. At least they recognize it as a properly which can hold a better and bigger value. Unlike the currency, it will stagnate the value to almost a flat graph.

However, changes are applied only for funds received from investment activities. The profit tax from mining, as before, can reach 45%.

The same thing. In order for you to get a profit from mining, you have to trade it. Then tax will take place.  There no exception on that.
What is good in here, France reduced the tax to 19% and recognizing the cryopto.

Yes, I think these European countries generally need cryptocurrencies. Their country is too small. The euro zone economy is now facing a test. So choosing a cryptocurrency is normal.

And besides the fact that the French classified the crypto-currencies as movable property, did they somehow legitimize the crypt?

Seems they are. They already put a tax on it so it is legit. The government cannot impose a tax on illegal things.
France recognition on crypto is already a huge leap for a cryptocurrency world.