Bitcoin Forum

Bitcoin => Press => Topic started by: barbierir on November 24, 2013, 01:10:41 PM



Title: 2013-11-24 Rischio Calcolato - The bitcoin envy
Post by: barbierir on November 24, 2013, 01:10:41 PM
RischioCalcolato is one of the main italian economics blog, it is owned by Paolo Rebuffo. Today he published an interesting article about Bitcoin that raises some interesting points. Sorry for the translation but it's better than the googlish one!

http://www.rischiocalcolato.it/2013/11/linvidia-del-bitcoin.html

Quote
THE BITCOIN ENVY

So the question is:

The guy who has become "rich" because he believed in BTC in time, so he bought or "mined” it helping to create nodes in the BTC network. Does he deserve to have become rich?

I know the question is pure "sex of angels." Apart from the fact that he has earned, and whatever the word "deserve" means, the guy eventually became rich.

But for all those who have not become rich (and are gnawing at it), what is the guy in question? A parasite? A privileged? A benefactor?

I say it now, for me at least he is a person who has risen above the others at the right time and therefore he deserves his wealth.

But in case that Bitcoin (or another cripto-money) will keep its promise to wipe out the central banks or even just to reduce their power then, in my opinion, he would also be a benefactor of mankind.

Only I'm afraid we will be very few to think this way, very few. Indeed, the vast majority of people accustomed to fiat money in the end will hate bitcoin for two reasons:

  • Envy
  • End of free lunches

First of all, there is envy, and I know something about it, I happened to have to deal with hordes of spiteful and envious people (even people who email me with threats of reporting to the authorities... because I bought gold... crazy stuff) I'm talking about when the yellow metal was on the highest and therefore also on the front pages of the media. I expect more or less the same when we come back.

Then there is the thorniest issue that we still don't see.

If a cripto-money should become quite popular it would be the end of free lunches offered by the government (at the expense of wealth producers).

Imagine a world in which the majority of transactions happens in cripto-money (not necessarily only BTC) that are inflated with a mechanism that cannot be influenced by anyone, that is no one can create any significant amounts out of nowhere.

Well then let's try to issue government debt in BTC for redistribution at the expense of the unborn (that bastards, do you understand how immoral it is?), because one thing is to exchange one currency you don't really own, that is, a credit, such as the euro or dollars, with another less liquid title of credit such as government bonds, for a small rate.

Another thing is to exchange full possession of BTC for government securities. Yes you can do it... but at what rate?

Let's say 15% a year? Indeed it seems too little. And then:

  • Would you give your BTC to the government ?
  • Would you trust the government to tell you: give us your physical gold, I'll give it back in a year with an interest in physical gold.

Ahahahahahah yeah I do believe it!

So the end of the free lunch, the end of the creation of money/debt. Who will survive? In fact how would you survive?

You survive in just one way: producing something useful and/or valuable to be exchanged with BTC or other virtual currencies. And there will not be much room for parasites and, unfortunately, even for the weak and unfortunates, unless we form new types of communities (or states) that decide to deal with this problem.

You understand that the revolutionary potential is huge, but it's rare that revolutions don't shed blood.

Ok, back to topic, I am sure of one thing: the majority of the citizens of the world will hate the BTC but much more they will hate those who own them and use them. They will ask for the defense of the good old central bank currency that offered free lunches. There will be a mortal struggle with BTC, they will ask for prison, death and torture to those who own them and use them. Fortunately, it is not a foregone conclusion that they will succeed.

From my point of view, the main defect is that BTC is having too much success too quickly, I do not like it on the pages of newspapers, in ETFs, in cfd and trading platforms, I think that it is culturally too early. But at the same time this advertising of BTC has the great merit of instilling doubt, that there is something other than the shitty currency created by the central banks and the shitty fractional reserve. The cultural background is growing, eventually it will take the present generation of men and women connected to the internet to complete the process, but at least it's a start.

It will be a war, and I'm already on the side of the benefactors who have created this new opportunity, and I wish them wealth and prosperity.

P.S. however I'm gnawing at it, but I will get to live with it while I prepare my luggage for Switzerland.
P.P.S. about Bitcoin and Gold comparison, I do not think that they are in competition. Rather the opposite, it is a cultural issue.


Title: Re: 2013-11-24 Rischio Calcolato - The bitcoin envy
Post by: LiteCoinGuy on November 24, 2013, 01:33:57 PM
"the majority of the citizens of the world will hate the BTC but much more they will hate those who own them and use them. They will ask for the defense of the good old central bank currency that offered free lunches. There will be a mortal struggle with BTC, they will ask for prison, death and torture to those who own them and use them. Fortunately, it is not a foregone conclusion that they will succeed."

dont agree with the most here.

--------

but i guess beppe grillo must love BTC :)
would like to read something from him here.


Title: Re: 2013-11-24 Rischio Calcolato - The bitcoin envy
Post by: zeroday on November 24, 2013, 03:18:02 PM
"the majority of the citizens of the world will hate the BTC but much more they will hate those who own them and use them. They will ask for the defense of the good old central bank currency that offered free lunches. There will be a mortal struggle with BTC, they will ask for prison, death and torture to those who own them and use them. Fortunately, it is not a foregone conclusion that they will succeed."

dont agree with the most here.


It's true. Crowds hate successful people.
I was born in a poor family and spend my childhood in a poor district.
When I started making business and achieved my first financial success, almost everyone in our community started to hate me. They told me I'm asshole because I don't go to a plant every morning as everybody of them do, but instead I sit at home and make "obscure money" by unknown way.
I tried to calm their hatred by donating money for some improvements on our street, but their hatred then became more aggressive and I was accused of attempting to "bribe" their attitude. Finally, I just left the community with all their shit and moved to another place.


Title: Re: 2013-11-24 Rischio Calcolato - The bitcoin envy
Post by: cr1776 on November 24, 2013, 03:28:31 PM
I have to agree with Zeroday. Many people dislike success. In some places it is a motivating factor -"I could do that" - but those places are getting rarer.

It also depends on the field. Tech being a big one.

By the way, that was a good translation, thanks!

"the majority of the citizens of the world will hate the BTC but much more they will hate those who own them and use them. They will ask for the defense of the good old central bank currency that offered free lunches. There will be a mortal struggle with BTC, they will ask for prison, death and torture to those who own them and use them. Fortunately, it is not a foregone conclusion that they will succeed."

dont agree with the most here.


It's true. Crowds hate successful people.
I was born in a poor family and spend my childhood in a poor district.
When I started making business and achieved my first financial success, almost everyone in our community started to hate me. They told me I'm asshole because I don't go to a plant every morning as everybody of them do, but instead I sit at home and make "obscure money" by unknown way.
I tried to calm their hatred by donating money for some improvements on our street, but their hatred then became more aggressive and I was accused of attempting to "bribe" their attitude. Finally, I just left the community with all their shit and moved to another place.



Title: Re: 2013-11-24 Rischio Calcolato - The bitcoin envy
Post by: Barek on November 24, 2013, 03:44:26 PM
By the way, that was a good translation, thanks!

Aye, thank you for taking the time.


Title: Re: 2013-11-24 Rischio Calcolato - The bitcoin envy
Post by: LiteCoinGuy on November 24, 2013, 05:09:57 PM
"the majority of the citizens of the world will hate the BTC but much more they will hate those who own them and use them. They will ask for the defense of the good old central bank currency that offered free lunches. There will be a mortal struggle with BTC, they will ask for prison, death and torture to those who own them and use them. Fortunately, it is not a foregone conclusion that they will succeed."

dont agree with the most here.


It's true. Crowds hate successful people.
I was born in a poor family and spend my childhood in a poor district.
When I started making business and achieved my first financial success, almost everyone in our community started to hate me. They told me I'm asshole because I don't go to a plant every morning as everybody of them do, but instead I sit at home and make "obscure money" by unknown way.
I tried to calm their hatred by donating money for some improvements on our street, but their hatred then became more aggressive and I was accused of attempting to "bribe" their attitude. Finally, I just left the community with all their shit and moved to another place.


yes i know that and its true but thats the same with Fiat, thats not a BTC problem. thats all i wanted to say.

BTC already does good things like donations and lower the fees for all people etc etc. we have to focus on that.


Title: Re: 2013-11-24 Rischio Calcolato - The bitcoin envy
Post by: Pente on November 24, 2013, 05:34:58 PM
 “People don't hate you for your weaknesses, they hate you for your strengths.” - Ayn Rand

When I read this, suddenly a whole bunch of things in my life made sense.

A lot of people are really going to hate Bitcoin.


Title: Re: 2013-11-24 Rischio Calcolato - The bitcoin envy
Post by: I_bitcoin on November 24, 2013, 08:35:38 PM
"the majority of the citizens of the world will hate the BTC but much more they will hate those who own them and use them. They will ask for the defense of the good old central bank currency that offered free lunches. There will be a mortal struggle with BTC, they will ask for prison, death and torture to those who own them and use them. Fortunately, it is not a foregone conclusion that they will succeed."

dont agree with the most here.


It's true. Crowds hate successful people.
I was born in a poor family and spend my childhood in a poor district.
When I started making business and achieved my first financial success, almost everyone in our community started to hate me. They told me I'm asshole because I don't go to a plant every morning as everybody of them do, but instead I sit at home and make "obscure money" by unknown way.
I tried to calm their hatred by donating money for some improvements on our street, but their hatred then became more aggressive and I was accused of attempting to "bribe" their attitude. Finally, I just left the community with all their shit and moved to another place.


Wow, this really is an Ayn Randesque situation.   You are the motor of the world Zeroday.


Title: Re: 2013-11-24 Rischio Calcolato - The bitcoin envy
Post by: oakpacific on November 25, 2013, 01:36:52 AM
Made me rethinking why Satoshi has to vanish, people would certainly hate him much more than they admire him had he remained in the public space.

Such hatred is pretty evident already in this forum, see how mnay have made baseless "premining" accusation against him.


Title: Re: 2013-11-24 Rischio Calcolato - The bitcoin envy
Post by: cr1776 on November 25, 2013, 02:39:43 AM
Very true.  They'll do it themselves or elect thugs to do it for them.

OPSEC - Operational Security

Keep your mouths shut. We live in a world of progressive, irrational, riotous and politically correct retards who will kill you and your family for making them feel bad... and for your wealth.

Curb the narcissistic tendencies and maintain OPSEC.

At the end of the day it's no ones business but yours what you got and how you got it.

Bitcoin is no longer monopoly money used for some doobage. This shit is getting serious. Treat it seriously.


Title: Re: 2013-11-24 Rischio Calcolato - The bitcoin envy
Post by: kjlimo on November 25, 2013, 05:41:37 AM
"the majority of the citizens of the world will hate the BTC but much more they will hate those who own them and use them. They will ask for the defense of the good old central bank currency that offered free lunches. There will be a mortal struggle with BTC, they will ask for prison, death and torture to those who own them and use them. Fortunately, it is not a foregone conclusion that they will succeed."

dont agree with the most here.


It's true. Crowds hate successful people.
I was born in a poor family and spend my childhood in a poor district.
When I started making business and achieved my first financial success, almost everyone in our community started to hate me. They told me I'm asshole because I don't go to a plant every morning as everybody of them do, but instead I sit at home and make "obscure money" by unknown way.
I tried to calm their hatred by donating money for some improvements on our street, but their hatred then became more aggressive and I was accused of attempting to "bribe" their attitude. Finally, I just left the community with all their shit and moved to another place.


Yep, Capitalism has it's downside.


Title: Re: 2013-11-24 Rischio Calcolato - The bitcoin envy
Post by: BitChick on November 25, 2013, 06:47:28 PM
"the majority of the citizens of the world will hate the BTC but much more they will hate those who own them and use them. They will ask for the defense of the good old central bank currency that offered free lunches. There will be a mortal struggle with BTC, they will ask for prison, death and torture to those who own them and use them. Fortunately, it is not a foregone conclusion that they will succeed."

dont agree with the most here.


It's true. Crowds hate successful people.
I was born in a poor family and spend my childhood in a poor district.
When I started making business and achieved my first financial success, almost everyone in our community started to hate me. They told me I'm asshole because I don't go to a plant every morning as everybody of them do, but instead I sit at home and make "obscure money" by unknown way.
I tried to calm their hatred by donating money for some improvements on our street, but their hatred then became more aggressive and I was accused of attempting to "bribe" their attitude. Finally, I just left the community with all their shit and moved to another place.


Impressive that you were able to rise above the mindset that you grew up with!  That is really hard to do for most people.

Success can come with problems for sure. I have already considered how Bitcoin could potentially change relationships in my life.  Having told most of my close friends and relatives about Bitcoin months ago they at least cannot blame my husband and me if we have great success later.  They could have joined in.  But most of them have not and have ignored us and our advice just to buy a few.  This was when the price was $100 BTW.  So, now we are at almost 10X that price.  I dream of next year and think "What if?"  What if we do become Bitcoin millionaires someday?  It could very well change our lifestyle dramatically which will cause envy by some.  I supposed it will show people's true colors.  I would like to think most would be happy for us, but there are some people that get jealous and angry. 

I have already experienced this in my life in small ways.  Compared to where we grew up my husband and I live in a pretty nice neighborhood and one of my friends from high-school got so jealous when she came to my house that she does not even talk to me anymore.  :(  This really saddened me.  I was not jealous when she bought a home before I did.  I was really happy for her.  I just don't get it but I guess I don't think like that and I try not to compare myself to others and just be happy for others around me.


Title: Re: 2013-11-24 Rischio Calcolato - The bitcoin envy
Post by: LiteCoinGuy on November 25, 2013, 07:31:17 PM
Made me rethinking why Satoshi has to vanish, people would certainly hate him much more than they admire him had he remained in the public space.

Such hatred is pretty evident already in this forum, see how mnay have made baseless "premining" accusation against him.

yes, this was a smart move in alot of things. for money: if you have some, be quiet.


Title: Re: 2013-11-24 Rischio Calcolato - The bitcoin envy
Post by: BitChick on November 26, 2013, 01:35:39 AM
Made me rethinking why Satoshi has to vanish, people would certainly hate him much more than they admire him had he remained in the public space.

Such hatred is pretty evident already in this forum, see how mnay have made baseless "premining" accusation against him.

yes, this was a smart move in alot of things. for money: if you have some, be quiet.

To create Bitcoin proves he is a genius to begin with.  To remain anonymous proves he is wise too.