Bitcoin Forum

EDIT: I really messed up the organization on this one, so I deleted the poll and rewrote this post.

It seems to me that most people in the Bitcoin community are Rightist Libertarians, some to a more extreme extent that others. I'd like to do an informal survey of the politics here so as to see if the impression I received is accurate or the product of a vocal minority. Please choose the description in the poll above which best describes your political beliefs, using the chart below as a reference. If you are unsure about where you lie on the chart, please take this quiz (http://www.politicalcompass.org/test). To start, I am a staunchly leftist libertarian, which means I believe in socialism so long as it does not interfere with personal or political freedoms.

http://www.politicalcompass.org/images/internationalchart.gif

What is a "conservative libertarian"?

Someone who believes the government should stay out of the economy but be otherwise powerful.

I think that's just a conservative.

Why no anarchist option? Or minarchist? You're leaving out wide swaths of political ideologies

Take a look at the chart. There are two axis, economic (libertarian-socialist) and political (liberal-conservative).

Again, chart. Anarchist is the extreme of the Conservative Libertarian side. Minarchist is almost there. The US Republican Party is in that direction, but closer to center.

anarcho socialist?

it doesn't matter too much as long as we have many experiments to find the best kind of society.

I have no idea what you mean by "anarcho socialist", but yes, experiments are a good thing!

I am an "anarcho-capitalist" but it really mean that I am a voluntaryist.

I think people who claim that experiment is a good thing are cessessionists.

This means that when a nation is divided on an important issue, they just cut the country in two parts and put each camp in each sides.

We did that for the communism/liberalism antagonism and it was a mistake to try unification.

Another voluntaryist checking in, though not on your chart. I guess I would be a null value... I don't consider participating in politics to be worthwhile nor moral endeavor.

edit...

I haven't stated this, but it is a point of view I hold (experimentation). What I mean by this though, is that once people have been convinced that the state is immoral, unnecessary, and destructive, I would not seek to impose any other structure on society. Some would, generally those that call themselves anarcho-*ists. From my experience, this especially applies to anarcho-socialists. Most seem to be willing to justify the initiation of the use of force to prevent private individuals from owning capital. Some anarcho-capitalists seem to be willing to do the same to prevent anarcho-socialism from taking root (though far fewer, in my experience). I however, would like to see the state fall, and would be happy seeing how society would rearrange itself in a voluntary manner. I believe that there is room on this planet for more than one type of society... whichever flourishes, flourishes.

haha, that's an interesting way of thinking. Reminds me of my uncle.

Voluntarist here, I marked liberal libertarian. I think voluntarism is a subset of that, right?

I don't know.

Well, we need to tell exactly that to people who advocate for a World Government.

Hmm... I suppose an argument could be made, but I would consider voluntarism more an offshoot/cousin of anarchism.

Yeah, me too, but anarchism wasn't an option in the poll either.

Voluntarist.

Every one of the poll options assumes that I want to be ruled by someone else.

This is a better poll:

http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2006.0

Around 60% are some kind of libertarians and most of them are anarchists. That is, for people who voted.

No. Anarchists oppose hierarchy. Therefore, they oppose both the state and capitalism. I would guess that conservative libertarians support capitalism.

Not a fan of the chart at all.

+1

In your opinion, anarchists do. In many other's opinions, you're incorrect.

We agree that anarchists oppose authority. Why then, should they support capitalism, an institution which allows for the likes of slavery, that allows employer masters to treat human beings like expenses instead of partners? Capitalism thrives on authority. Therefore, anarchists oppose capitalism.

We've been over this in another thread, but essentially I don't oppose authority unless it is monopolistic.

*bump*

This thread got off the a rocky start. I've edited the poll to be more clear. Give it another shot?

I answered rightist libertarian, which to me is just the true form of any libertarian.

What does "rightist" and leftist" libertarian mean?

Leftist is Liberal (more freedom), Rightist is Conservative (more government).

For left libertarianism, think Noam Chomsky.

And thus we have the difference between anarcho-capitalism and anarchism. Anarchy means no authority, with no monopolistic qualifier.

Your definition of anarchy, sure. I disagree with your definition (and all anarcho-communist definitions, I would bet).

But that's okay, because I'm a voluntaryist. As long as you're not coercive you can call your politics whatever and do whatever you want.

That's not how I see things.

To me left/right is the capitalism/communism antagonism.  So basically it deals with economic freedom.

Conservatism/liberal deals with moral issues.  Basically all social stuffs, i.e. everything which is not related to commercial activity: mariage, divorce, education, crime, drugs, free speech, suicide, guns, religion, ...

I'm not making up these definitions. Up-Down is politics, and Left-Right is economics.

• Liberalism is the belief in the importance of liberty and equal rights. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism)
• Conservatism is a political and social philosophy that promotes the maintenance of traditional institutions. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservatism)
• Libertarianism is the advocacy of individual liberty, especially freedom of expression and action. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism)
• Statism is a political philosophy either emphasising the role of the state. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statism)

With this I agree more or less.  But not with what you wrote above:

What is equal rights? I believe in liberty. I don't believe in the promotion of traditional institutions. I am a libertarian, not a statist.

Is free market considered a conservative institution?

Yes, wikipedia's definitions are a little vague. I will now make some up:

• Liberalism is socialism or progress towards it.
• Conservatism is free market capitalism.
• Libertarianism is personal and social freedom.
• Statism is essentially Authoritarianism.
  

The confusion with these definitions is the whole reason why we use a chart (http://www.politicalcompass.org/images/internationalchart.gif).

I think you got all mixed up.

I like the idea of a chart with economic freedom on the horizontal axis and moral issues on the vertical axes.  But I don't like your labelling.


To me it would be pretty much more like this:


                libertarianism
                    ^
                    |
communism <-                 -> liberalism
                    |
                    v
                conservatism

Leftist is more personal freedoms but fewer economic freedoms.
Rightist is more economic freedoms but fewer personal freedoms.

The poll is effectively a question about what kind of state people prefer, and as such it fails to represent many of the people here. Can you at least add "Voluntarist" to the list?

For some time I've been considering whether it could be possible to create some kind of a "mind fingerprint", using a decent number of Yes/No questions.

Results could be printed as a box in the above area.

As I see it, it would consist in something like 100 yes/no questions, and as a result you'll see where you are on a political map.


Questions would deal with death penalty, divorce, capitalism, freedom of speech, abortion, minimal wage, retirement, gun control, and so on...

There are lots of these on the web, e.g.
http://www.politicalcompass.org (http://www.politicalcompass.org/)/

Some of the questions are unanswerable for a voluntaryist, but nevertheless it scored me 81.5% libertarian-leaning and 41.2% rightist-leaning.

1. Is it right for people with guns to kindnap and lock up someone who has non-approved vegetation in their pockets?

2. Is it right for people to forcibly take your money to operate a police force that claims to protect you from people who would forcibly take your money?

3. If 51% of people voted to legalize rape, would that be OK?

That ought to separate out the statists from the voluntarists.

Indeed, and it is much less fun than I thought.  I'll make the test one day, though.

I couldn't take the test because it has stupid questions like, "If economic globalisation is inevitable, it should primarily serve humanity rather than the interests of trans-national corporations." The answer is, of course, that the interests of corporations align with humanity in a free market environment.

I said right libertarian based on the site's description of the left-right axis as right=free market.

You have four choices. If the two extreme ones don't appeal to you, pick one from the middle. Those two are scored the same. Another statement on the test says that the interests of corporations align with that of individuals. You can strongly agree to that one.