Bitcoin Forum

I think it's important to understand what is going on. This is only my opinion, but feel free to correct or add anything.

IMO altcoins got popular for these reasons:

• lots of newbies with regret and (incorrect) thinking in style "I missed the boat with bitcoin, what is the next big thing"
• pumps & dumps are much easier done with altcoins and on newbies
• GPU miners lost their profits when FPGAs and ASICs arrived and had to switch to something else. They suddenly became incentivized to promote altcoins
• all cryptocurrencies are currently more than 90% speculation. The network effect, that Erik Voorhees is talking about, is only semi-valid at the moment. When Bitcoin price will reach its full potential and the system becomes more like a transactional currency, network effect will cause the value to (finally) concentrate in one currency
• hype-price feedback

I see these reasons as the "perfect storm", the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. But it is also not sustainable. Newbies will learn the fundamentals, suckers from pumps & dumps will learn from their mistakes, the mining aspect will lose power (professionalization), built infrastructure will make Bitcoin more usable for day-to-day transactions.

TL;DR: don't fall for altcoins, unless you really understand the reasons for owning them

Be especially careful with scrypt-based altcoins.

Whoever creates the first ASIC für scrypt, has the option is control the blockchain.

You can fall for altcoins, but just don't spend money on it. That's more the thing I think. There are plenty of giveaways on the internet, so if you want to experience with altcoins I suggest you do that.

LTC can't be ignored tho. I think this one will be the steady 2nd. Someone described Bitcoin as gold and Litecoins as silver. I think I agree with that. 

You won't convince many people to stop doing something they're currently making a bunch of money at.  But unlike with Bitcoin the story driving their speculation is relatively unconvincing, so I suspect that when prices begin to stagnate or consolidate, people will get bored and nervous, and we'll see a flight to (relative) safety in bitcoin.  Actually it seems like this is exactly what happened throughout the summer with litecoin.

And like Erik mentioned, the alt-coins draw the bottom of the barrel speculator away from Bitcoin, creating a stabilizing effect.  Unfortunately this will lead to alt-coins getting pumped up during bitcoin hype phases, but likely this stored value will "gravitate back toward the centre" during periods of consolidation.  That or the cryptocurrency market will prove to be too fickle to stably contain its liquidity, and the store of value promise ("gold 2.0") dies.

Something funny I noticed on Erik's reddit post.  Top voted comment:
Notice the resemblance :P

What in God's name does this even mean?

People think that bitcoin is unlikely to rise any more in value. 1000$ is a psychological barrier and it will not be easy to beat that.
On the other hand altcoins are considered cheap and with much more potential. It's a flawed logic but can fuel speculation easily.

+1


Exactly. This is all it is. Take a Bitcoin fork, give it a name that suggests it's something original (Litecoin or Terracoin or whatever), and drive speculation money that's looking for a 'cheaper' alternative into it.

Bitcoin prices should immediately be quoted in terms of mBTC.

Erik will eat humble pie.


For example you missed the point that Bitcoin and Litecoin are insecure and will fail technically.

I don't understand why there is so much demand for LTC. LTC-Global is closed, so is Atlantis. So the demand solely comes from speculation. Unlike the BTC, the LTC doesn't have any use as of now.

That LTC is a good 2nd coin.  :-X

If people want to buy, let them.  :D

In fact, Litcoin are currently generated 8 times faster than Bitcoin.

Fire up those graphics cards!  ;D

That someone is the guy who created litecoin. It 's only a slogan but it seems that it works in people's psychology  ::)

Really? Why, LTC grow fast in value as well. Don't you think it's going to make it?

That thing would be so expensive to make... gpu will always be in the lead

there's no possible decrease in watts/gH that will justify the crazy price.


 I had single HD7950 on sale, for a good price for a while, but last month or two I've decided to keep it. There were people calling me , asking for a crazy low price, trying to debate something like "nvidia card of the same level costs less , etc". I told them to buy that nvidia and leave me alone.

Yesterday same people started calling me, wanting to buy my gpu (not selling anymore, lol) :D Talked with one of them about mining, hour ago, recognized him as a previous caller, so much lulz.

Sold 15LTC in the summer, starting to regret a little now :)

Altcoins exist because too many people think with their emotions instead of logic.

Bitcoin solves a number of critical problems -- debt-based currencies with fractional reserve banking and central bank stimulus packages serve primarily to steal from the poor to give to the rich, and abuse of currencies makes socialism possible, again primarily benefitting the looters at the expense of the producers.  Bitcoin can change all that and usher in a new age of prosperity, limited government, and increased personal freedom.

Altcoins serve no useful purpose.  They only distract people from the real battle being waged -- Bitcoin versus Big Brother.

You will eat humble pie too.


Bitcoin is helping Big Brother. You are very ignorant.

It's individuality and freedom. Those are the reasons for alt coin. People who push bitcoin and are against alt coin also worship god you would think. Destroy those who mock allah. Destroy those that mock bitcoin

For all i know if investors continue to embrace crypto currencies like that, even the shittiest alt coin will somewhat make it.

When will you start believing in crypto?

I would have guessed the opposite.

To believe in a god, you must consciously suspend rational thought, as logic tells you that gods cannot exist.  So believers say they "know in their heart" that God is real, implying that the heart is somehow a superior to the brain as a source of knowledge.  Of course, actual knowledge comes from rational thought, not from emotion.

I see no logical reason to think that altcoins serve any useful purpose.  While believing in them does not require abandonment of rationality, it does require the absence of logical thought.  Or maybe there is a logical reason for them I have not yet heard.

My guess would be that the same people who are willing to abandon rationality to believe in a god would also likely fail to think rationally about their belief in the utility of altcoins.

I don't worship Bitcoin any more than I worship computers.  They are both useful tools.  I see altcoins as being more like the Klingon language, an interesting amusement, but with no real useful value.

Oh don't be so shallow in your understanding of your opponents here.  As I mentioned in my post above, the worry is that by demonstrating a willingness to adopt random copycats to a significant degree, "the cryptocurrency market will prove to be too fickle to stably contain its liquidity, and the store of value promise ("gold 2.0") dies."  That would be a damn shame just to enrich a few additional early adopters.

can you explain that last sentence?

The developer of Franko, answered this question best


I think every developer has their own motivation. Some are more noble then others.

Does having one univeral currency really speed the flow of goods and services from person to person? Freedom to choose other forms of currency is the reason bitcoin existed in the first place.

You're basing this on what?

Your wrong on every point.

There is no end. matter can neither be created nor destroyed

There is room if there is reason. I agree that we 'll see an altcoin boom but not for every crap coin out there. ppcoin / primecoin and some others may see a huge rise soon.

I like Bitcoin and believe it was something we desperately needed, otherwise I wouldn't be here. However, the sheer lack of understanding market fundamentals by "Bitcoin Only" believers is truly amazing. And yet they have the audacity to complain that altcoins aren't tanking and that altcoin adoption is illogical.

First of all, monopolies and oligopolies (be they businesses or otherwise) are quite difficult to establish and generally an antithesis to free markets. In most cases, they exist due to high barriers to entry: artificial and/or natural. They often lack the dynamic creativity and innovation seen in competitive markets. Fortunately, "Bitcoin Only" is not possible in the long run, since none of those barriers exist, thus altcoins exist and will continue to exist. They actually serve as excellent models in which innovation an experimentation can occur. Note that this does not preclude the existence of tons of copycat shitcoins, however the free market will sort those out in the long run.

Bitcoin has some serious flaws, some of which are trying to be "fixed" by papering them over with additional protocols/embeddings/centralization, but which ultimately are only going to be resolved through radical changes to the underlying fundamentals. Face it, the blockchain is inefficient and bloated, not to mention its inability to scale the number of transactions (the time is already way too long). It will only get worse as the subsidy declines and it remains to be seen if the eventual shift to mining for fees is going to work out. Without liquidity, the currency can not be used in the intended way. And then there is the whole issue of network stability and security. Cryptocurrency needs the experimentation that is happening in altcoins, because it will ultimately strengthen Bitcoin as well as provide viable alternatives if it should ever fail. Also, some of the experiments focus on using Cryptocurrency in ways not possible with Bitcoin, such as in-game currency and rewards currency.

Finally, Cryptocurrency needs people investing and holding onto it if it is to have value. However, it is very unwise to invest in one thing for obvious reasons (eggs in one basket). Investors in Cryptocurrency will want the freedom of choice and the ability to spread risk without having to engage in elaborate schemes that are basically tied to one coin. Alternatives to Bitcoin will serve this purpose.

In time, quality altcoins will establish themselves. It is not a matter of faith, but a matter of logic and reason. The only real question is if any of the current altcoins are able to fill the need. If not, then it is only a matter of time before some do appear on the scene. "Bitcoin Only" is quite untenable and unrealistic in the long run. A pity that so many Bitcoiners are so hostile to altcoins.

..care  ::)

spent ? 0 cents

electricity cost ? 0 cents

profit ? lots :)

i feel sorry for some dumb ass's bragging about spending 20k on alts like a big shot ..little remarks about poor people etc

the guillotine will be be swift and very painful lol

I totally agree!

There are a lot of dumbass's that bet on altcoins and won big already. It 's a bet after all.

One of them is bound to eventually become the real #2, or #1. it doesn't have to be bitcoin and litecoin up there. Look at MySpace, came crashing down hard and things like twitter overtook it. Thing of one of these alt currencies as the up and coming twitter.

hey don't make it complicated, the deal is simple, they can be mined with gpu

 J.Paul Getty hated Competition too. He conspired ruthlessly to stomp out all competitors, which in his time he did!
So did others of the 1st Gilded Age.


 This is the 2nd Gilded Age of Fraud & Greed.

 You just proved that again with your silly attempts to try to stop Decentralization through killing an open, fair marketplace called Competition.


 Some have much better intentions.

 But those like yourself prove time and again that Greed is infectious. So be it.

 
 

Caveat emptor - let the buyer beware!

Great to see all altcoins growing because litecoin gets more profitable.
Just feel sorry for those noobs who are coin holders, when altcoins crash.
Will all shit altcoins crash? Ofcourse.

Only few coins have even little reason to be here.
So, buy, buy like crazy, but remember, when altcoins crash they will not climb up back untill there is new round noobs, who dont know what mean Pump&dump.
And if you buy on Cryptsy, you have no USD where you can run safe when bitcoin make correction.

I also like to tell to all noobs.
If you buy something, check coin marketcap, so you can see how big and fast dump will plash on your face.
Believe me. Coin dev or holders dont care about shit what will happen for the coin which is made with 25$ from shakezula and who just make 100 000$ profits from you.
If you ask will they buy your coins back.... nooooo I'll keep your 100 000 USD you can keep my billion scamcoins  8)

And dont worry, noobs will find this thread way after this all pump&dump and alt crash is made.
If you are noob and dont even understand what I mean.... bitcoin = risky invest, altcoins = gambling, shit altcoins = make scam dev get rich, and last holders suck the ass game.

There are some awesome arbitrage deals at cryptsy, despite how sluggish and lame-ass that website is.

Never cared about mining altcoins other than LTC and maybe a little FTC, but look at that digicoin go! At least twice as profitable as litecoin this whole day.

digicoin global hash went from 150 this morning to 500

some other coins jumped in value too, this week is crazy, I hope everything crashes and I can relax. Contemplating to buy another rig next monday, as 1st one finally paid off. Although scrypt global hashrate is growing 5% per day. Everyone jumped the boat again.