Bitcoin Forum

i just saw the antminer Z9 . and i wonder now about the decentralization for cryptocurrencies. some smart people will come and reply "everyone ccan buy Z9 = decentralization ". but this is bullShit. it still 1 company one point of failure . Antbleed , Backdoors. etc . just imagine if shitmain have a hidden backdoor inside each one of those miners . shitmain will control your money . 

i used to vote and fight for cryptocurrencies as it has lots of advantages over banks big one of these advantages was decentralization  but not anymore .  if one company  or two control our money then this will be totally scam and shity future  . i have 100s of banks in my country i can chose anyone of them , now only 1 company can control my money LOOOL .

if cryptocurrencies will continue like this without true decentralization then cryptocurrencies  are shit and SCAM .

true decentralization MUST avoid ASIC ( at least until we have lots of ASIC makers in different countries  )

that's why the oldest POS privacy chain may win... PIVX :) then there is the issue that the chain works 100 % decentralized but the anonymization system zpiv is still centralized, ie it can be cut off and on by the devs, making it still a single unacceptable point of failure.

that's the spirit of bitcoin, now they are try to soften us with high valuation... everything not 100% trustless will be taken over by them. it's like in matrix against the machines... they are relentless. our opponents aren't humans... so...

Any PoS system will always be centralized. Also ASICs cause centralization and that is known too. PoW with GPU mining only and 1cpu/vote ratio to the true method towards decentralization. Even with large companies, that doesnt prevent decentralization, its the production of machines only a few companies can produce and limit sales to that cause centralization, or the ability to hold majority ratio of a coin for PoS.

maybe that by decentralizing governance by fixing certain pivx, this pos chain will succeed, but yes... galaxy collapses... so what we need is the black hole of cryptos so to speak :)

otherwise back at the neofeudal model, my army > your army, bow or die... monkeys boiling water with atomic fission... very safe :)

or violence on the centralizor of cryptos... after a certain concentration threshold i'ts death...

I agree
I'm completely frustrated because people joined Cryptos to fight banks, monetary system etc, but now they only care about squeeze every Dollar they can no matter what

Great users of this forum are buying Bitmain craps instead of fight against

Shame on you guys

in a sense the banks have created the perception of advantage now... but have they really win? maybe the future is local crypto currencies? but then at this scale barter maybe more suitable? who knows...

as long as wet young pussies will accept green pieces of papers and fuck their holders...

but anyway they are only "papers girls"...

POS from start is insane, its 100% flawed and centralized...... maybe in future we will have better system but atm POW is best with all flaws it has

this POSchain pivx wasn't started with an ICO, but was mined 6 months with quark algo (which was equal on both nvidia and amd, not being popular ofor any chain there wasn't private miners)... and then the price was super low for super long with all the pow pumper and dash pumper to allow an even more distributed chain.

But who knows. for now pow as proven to be fully centralized and defended by those benefiting from pow (gpus vendors, mining software, asics, fpgas, pools, etc the feeding fee list is bigger than with fiat :)).

So what they should have consulted with the other asic manufacturers to make sure everyone dropped one at the same time?  Then it wouldn't be centralized?

Mining GPU's ultimately come entirely from two companies.

What is your point exactly?  Just to bitch about bitmain?

as gpus could be used by gamers and miners were a small segment of the market it provided the illusion of decentralization and competition between the gpus producers, sadly with the december rush, and those building hundred of rigs the mining demand outstripped the gaming crowd and so began the end mrsp or below to beyond the moon.

some made money, other lost it, but the decentralization is problematic with pow. who owns the fabs wins. can't make asic in the latest process... poor you, you will even be quicked out of your energy source as you are less profitable than the new comers who owns the latest asi chips 

with asics nothing can ever be decentralized.

People will find a lot of excuses against this, but they just want to believe if they buy just one or two Asics, they will not harm cryptos



Guys, don't forget that you are all responsibles to make Bitmain more and more powerful

They will building a HUGE farm on US, and you and all miners are screwed, because they will make better and better Asics than ones they selling to trolls, and they will not sell, only whem became obsolete to then

Thanks guys to ruined cryptos

yes there are 2 companies for the GPU But there are lots of different between  GPU and ASIC . i will not go to discuss this now as you should know it by now .

 the best coin for the future should be mined with ASIC , GPU and CPU and also Masternodes . with some Ratio for these hashrate . But Not ASIC only .
i want full true decentralization  and this can only be happen when you are able to mix and allow all the hashpower between different technologies with smart ratio and not allow one side to take control over your network . etc

agree.
let's do these:

Never buy any ICO altcoin.
Never buy any ASIC altcoin.

Asic coins like bitcoin and litecoin are decentralized. It will be the same for this. To be fair, they purposely made it 1 miner per account to help decentralization as it is.

This is far from accurate. Bitcoin is very centralized and you can understand this by Bitmains threats. Also if you have the money to purchase 200+ units you can do it through bitmain bulk purchase and receive it 1st day with others. Trusted Alibaba Suppliers are already preordering with no cap on the amount for not much more than bitmain.

This is simply talks about money and Bitmain itself is already making benefits and they do already have the path to pursue since they would really able have the advantage because they can either control,backdoor or whatsoever with the Asics which simply means it isnt really decentralized and truly fully opposing on whats is the total purpose of crypto which is decentralization. For the sake of money these guys will really be willing to exchange it.

You could say the same thing about GPUs.  If you have the money, you can order 200+ today, while the rest of us can only buy them at inflated prices on ebay.  Is that decentralization?  Look at the hashrates of the top miners of equihash.  Those guys have hundreds of cards running.

No, wrong

With a PC you can mine with your CPU and GPU
A PC is very easy to find and buy, GPUs and CPUs have long warranty, support and a PC is very helpful to do a lot os tasks, gaming etc

No way you can compare Asics to GPUs

The difference is anybody and everybody can buy GPUs and use it for mining. Could you say the same thing for ASICs?

It is not feasible for home miners to run a number of ASICs due to a number of limitations. The unit cost is high, it is too noisy for regular homes, it is even less profitable unless you have industrial electricity rates. Lots of barriers to entry with ASICs.

Centralization takes various forms. Blockchain technology is inherently a centralized database. What makes it decentralized is how many different participants influence the blockchain and it's governance. Vitalik Buterin's article is a good breakdown on the various forms of decentralization.

https://medium.com/@VitalikButerin/the-meaning-of-decentralization-a0c92b76a274

Quote from Satoshi Nakamoto:

“At first, most users would run network nodes, but as the network grows beyond a certain point, it would be left more and more to specialists with server farms of specialized hardware.”

Source:   http://satoshi.nakamotoinstitute.org/emails/cryptography/2/

The same arguments have been made since bitcoin went to ASIC.  Now, only "lottery" miners would dare mine with a USB miner or GPU or CPU.  It is just part of the growing pains for cryptocurrencies.  Developers have different goals.  Some don't want massive ASIC mining because of how they plan for the coin to develop over time.  Others may very well welcome ASICS as part of their business model.

People who value decentralization will follow coin developers who make the necessary adjustments to remain decentralized.