Bitcoin Forum

I would like to make sure that my first million won't be the last one. For this I would reinvest a portion of my bitcoin profits to stocks.

3 questions rise:
1. Must I pay income tax before investing my bitcoin earnings to stocks?
2. How profitable can stocks be?
3. This is probably lame but: what stocks would you suggest to buy?

I wouldn't own stocks to trade them but to get the dividends. However, I have no idea how profitable stocks are in that sense. Can anyone tell me how much money I should invest in some nice stocks in order for them to earn me noticeable dividends?

1. depends on your country.

2. i would not buy stocks in these times but maybe they will go up 2-5 times when the good old Ben prints more money.

3. at the moment none. buy some gold and silver. in the long run buy only blue chips that existed in 1900 and still today.

There are better places to find advice about stock market investment than the bitcoin forums.

Yeah, but I would like to have some cypher punk attitude added in the mixture of the advice I'm seeking. Anyway, I'm interested in stocks for their dividends to have some constant income. But maybe I should go all in and get my dividends based on bitcoin businesses paid in raw bitcoins...

This is these seller's idea. money makes money, simple.

Just imagine all of the first graders now could never know paper money... They could all start learning how to price thing in bitcoin now. It will be harder on the older generations though. Mentally translating bitcoin product prices into old currencies.

1. Depends on your country but generally yes all forms of income are taxable even barter
2. Stocks can be very profitable finding the one that pays the best is the challenge and some stocks can be non traditional example recently Maidsafecoin
3. High Yielding risk stocks or Berkshire if you feel like it. Income trusts were popular a while ago although not as much now, so would recommend tech that looks like it has a market to grow into.
Fairly low risk ones are Canadian Banks and dividend yields like TD or Royal from traditional stocks
Tesla Motors electrical etc.
Or tried and true Energy Stocks / Commodities
Enmax etc. 

basically what happened with the Euro in many countries? I think there are a lot of other things about bitcoin that are much more exciting.

  Yes, for our time there will always be paper money and we probably wont see bitoins replacing them, that needs time as there alot of retired people..

1. In most of the countries, capital gains tax must be paid on profits from Bitcoin sales
2. Unpredictable. Depends on the economic situation of your country.
3. High-Dividend stocks usually have very slow growth. So I prefer non-Dividend yielding stocks.

You have to pay capital gains tax.  Short-term capital gains (less than one year?) counts as income.  Long-term capital gains have their own special tax treatment that is superior.  In most cases you will pay 0%, though if you are dealing with big money you will pay 20%.


No where near as profitable as bitcoin.  I have a tiny percentage of my wealth in stocks but only as a diversification tactic.



We are entering the information age.  So my strategy has been to buy information.  Not so-called "data companies" because they don't actually have any data.  I buy stocks in companies that have big databases, for example Amazon, ADP, Pearson, etc...  I view the fact that these databases come with a company attached as a bonus.

I also want to invest in robotics companies so I have invested in iRobot.  I can't find any other public robotics companies to invest in.

I invested in a corrupt utility company (Pepco) that services a growing metro area (DC).  More government jobs = more DC residents = more revenue for Pepco.



If you want noticeable dividends you need to invest in stocks with a low PE ratio.  If you have a stock with a PE ratio of 8 that means that you need to invest $8 to get $1 per year.  Most of my stocks have a high PE ratio (meaning low dividends) but that is normal with stocks that are expected to go up in value.

When choosing stocks I first made a list of companies that I was interested in.  More than half of them I had to take off of the list because they weren't public.  Then I looked at their market caps and compared them to each other and other companies in the same industry and in different industries.  This gave me a sense of how big companies are and how big they should be.  So I got a sense of their potential for growth, stability, or decline.

Then I looked at PE ratio to get a sense of what other investors think about a stock.  A very high PE ratio means that other investors think that the company is going to have a major expansion.  For example I was thinking about buying Whole Foods stock, because I think that their company will double or triple in size.  However the PE ratio was very high compared to other stocks in their sector, indicating that other investors think that Whole Foods will do much better than double or triple.  So while I am bullish on Whole Foods I decided to skip buying that stock, because the market is even more bullish than I am.

Also I don't let my personal views cloud my judgment.  I hate Pepco.  They are incompetent and corrupt.  I am also opposed to Pearson Education and their tie in with the Common Core.  That doesn't stop me from investing in these companies.  They will continue to be profitable, I might as well get a share of their blood money.

stay away from the stock market until there is a 50% crash like in 2007-2008.
the whole market is in a bubble because of the fed's money printing and now they are starting to taper, once the QE is gone these prices will not last and the stock market will sharply fall the same as it did in 2000 and 2007.

take a look at this s&p 500 graph and you'll see where the market is going...

http://s14.postimg.org/c05skl329/Untitled.png

Another possibility is to just stay in Bitcoins:
1. Well, as long as you stay anonymous...
2. Depends on the actual stock of course
3. https://playt.in/#dividends#pbbs

Thanks for the great ideas. However, does anyone deem it reasonable to buy gold instead/also?

My current opinion is that gold is just a shiny metal uncomfortable to transport and store and when crypto currencies really succeed gold is determined to lose most of its value. Yet, buying gold is probably still a smart move for the sake of diversification.

yea I'd have to agree that the stock market is very dangerous during the current economic times.  It would take a lot of research and knowledge of the markets for me to feel safe putting my money into stocks.  With insider trading and High Frequency trading there just seems little room for the little guy these days. 

Gold has been hitting all time highs so it's not really what I'd consider to be the best investment unless your looking for a way to try and store wealth IMO.  I'd have to say that I'm just an average joe and not to take my advice as the end all be all just giving my opinion on the matter.

Gold is currently trading at $1,280 - 1,290/ Oz, and it is down almost 50% compared to the peak rates of $1,800 / Oz (peak price was reached in 2012, and the price has been declining ever since).

yes but if you take into consideration what the price was like a decade ago then you can see the the price is still pretty high.  I believe the price will soar but you shouldn't expect something like that over night.  I for one suspect manipulation in that market and would be cautious is what I'm getting at.

I really think that an unexpected event can happen --- gold crashing down to its intrinsic value.

As technology advances, the intrinsic value of gold may go up but I don't think it can go that much up. Ancient aliens were into gold for some reason, but it is highly speculative to think that man kind starts building pyramids with their tips made of pure gold any time soon.

Maybe buying land / houses and apartments would be a better alternative?

I'm bearish for conventional energy production too because the suppressed technology of Nikolai Tesla may soon find its way to the main stream. If energy becomes a free resource then you wouldn't want to be in the same boat with fossil fuels companies and its best friends.

The money is in the Bitcoin economy... in fact, technically, Bitcoin is the only true form of "money" that exists in the world right now.

Putting your profits anywhere else, whether it be fiat - stocks etc would be the antithesis of what you're trying to accomplish (keep /make more money).

I wouldn't buy property or land either, unless you're financially stable enough to purchase outright... (Remember wealth is a game of Liabilities VS Assets)

I'd continue investing in bitcoin, might allocate some profit to commodities like gold, oil etc but bitcoin is ultimately where the action is right now. Those who are all in today will be the superiors of those who aren't in 10 years time... guaranteed.

People look at the current price and say "the markets crashing"... The word "crash" is used to draw connotations with planes falling out of the sky, car wrecks etc... Situations you would steer clear of, or wish to extracate yourself from immediately... The greatest trick the elite ever pulled!

Look at all the greats, JP Morgan... Soros... even Nathan Rothschild.. they all made the bulk of their fortunes from "crashes".. Their ethos is get the idiots to establish value... wait for a group of idiots to sell.. alert the nation of a "crash".. then buy everything at rock bottom price.. (remember if someone is selling, it's because someones buying)... a year later the market rebounds and who do you think profits the most?

I look at the market as it is now and see "prices slashed"... "60% off"... "SALE"... and I gobble up all i can i tell ya.. Think with your logical brain and always remember that bitcoin is going to change the world.. each coin you own is an investment in the underlying technology.. HODL

Buying stocks now is pretty retarded. The vast majority of them are significantly overvalued. If you want to get into stocks look for shorting opportunities only the coming months. I haven't been long any stock over 2014 and I am up 50% on my stock shorts (mainly thanks to plug and various marijuana bubble pops).

Yes... the vast majority of them are significantly overvalued. But there are still a few stocks which are having a very low P/E ratio. A wise investor must be able to differentiate these stocks.

I suggest buying KNDI.  It could go down to 8-9.  If it does then buy more to double down

Otherwise as others say.  Now is time to short rather than buy

Couldn't have said it better myself

Kandi Technolgies? The problem is that the stock is slightly over-priced right now. A year ago, it was trading at $3.80-4.00 levels. Now it is going at $12.50-13.00. That is almost 300% increase in valuation in just 12 months.

I would at how much they distribute and when.  Many finance guys recommend spreading disbursement throughout the year.  Also look at what CDs and bonds throw off as well.  Finally there are some municipal bond that can be tax free - as long as the city (eg Detroit) doesn't go bankrupt.

Some states also allow you to invest in crowd loaning sites like prosper.


ALL investments have risk, so you just need to deal with the level tou can tolerate.

Dividend paying stocks,  bonds, both taxable and non taxable , loaning money to others -prosper.com-,
Personally things like annuities and CD are not something I like.

Good luck

Playing commodities may be of interest to OP. They are a bit safer than stocks at the moment (both on the long or short side). I would keep an eye on coffee and wait for it to top out for a very nice shorting opportunity (it could go down hard over a period of a few months). Also, silver is an interesting one that may bottom out this year.

There is risk.   But its a new company w a lot of growth potential.   8 or 9 would be a good price.   Not sure itll dip that low

Well... it is a blue chip stock. That means that it is having high risk profile, at the same time having the potential for high returns as well. Just keep in mind that the EPS is -0.61 right now.

So buy the undervalued ones.

OP, I think this is a great idea and stocks is the best thing to diversify to from Bitcoin imo.

With all the central bank pumping around the world there are not many left... And if they are still significantly undervalued by now, there's usually either something fundamentally wrong with the company or the industry.

I'm not sure you understand what undervalued means.

I'm not sure you understand how efficient markets work.

Cheap credit has been flowing around Western markets for many years now, most stocks aren't 'cheap' at all. Most of those that appear to be undervalued on the surface usually have significant underlying issues. An example of this would be ticker PAL.

For question #1...you can re-invest your earnings whenever you want, but you will have a tax liability on the gains that you made from BTC.   For the BTC you had more than a year it would be long term capital games, for BTC that you have owned less than a year it will be short term capital gains.  The tax liability will be due when you file your taxes in April (in United States)

I don't think anyone knows how efficient markets work because they are a myth.

Agreed always expect the unexpected as they say.  I am a believer in gold but I wonder how long until it shoots for the moon and how long it will stay that way if it does at all. 

I do like the open mindedness you have when it comes to investing but I think you should try and stick with more conventional ways of making profit at this time.  Land is not a bad idea I guess but like stocks you really have to do your due diligence.  I'm thinking stocks like Biotech would be good to look into as people will always be sick and that field is advancing.  Maybe look into other forms of technology based stocks sense you seem to have done well with BTC and even consider pharmaceuticals?  This is all just ideas that I think have potential in the future but need to be researched fully before making any real moves.    Best of luck with your investments!

Yes, i better suggest to buy gold or silver instead stocks. You really need to know what you're doing when buying stock and still you are on a risk. Gold and silver like many people say.

Gold has already declined almost 50% from its peak in just 2 years. And I am not sure whether it will go down even more in the near future or not. So, in short, we can't say that bullion is any more risk-free when compared to the stocks.

Sure you can, stocks can go bankrupt but its fairly hard to make gold evaporate.   In absolute terms it is absolutely risk free in comparison but they are two different asset types.   Gold wont grow either and a stock can go from a garden stall to cover half the world and you as the owner it is a proper investment.   Gold is just a rock, it starts, continues and ends at the same point it always was


Ive heard of gold in catalysts but never seen it, rocket fuel is even more unlikely.   Its essentially a paradox, not essentially useful but unique and unchanging and that includes price.   Dollar value can fall into a pit and its very likely, inversely appearance of gold in dollars rises


The Chinese stopped buying gold directly and tried to declare no alteration in their gold holdings for the past few years yet they are the worlds largest miner and export nothing.   Since they've also tried to misrepresent their treasury holdings at times, this decline is more about politics then a real change

http://pricedingold.com/bitcoin/


Did anyone mention a holding in a BTC company   ?   That can grow.    Generally you should buy a mutual fund not single stocks, the risks are too high unless you are an accountant and can study factors.   More generally you should hold sectors

Since you are taking profits out of a high risk investment, you probably want to put some in something that is a little less risk i.e mutual funds or bonds rather than individual stocks. Obviously some stocks are more stable than others, but you typically dont take profits out of something that is high risk, just to invest it in something else that is also high risk, you know?

I was basically saying the OP should look into other Bitcoin investemnts such as that in my last post.  I think it would be good to do that sense the OP has a good idea what Bitcoin is all about and can then research what new companies have to offer and can then begin to look into how much potential profits could be made.  Probably best to do a number of things mentioned in this thread and not go all in on one of them. 

I also like the idea of investing in bonds but don't really know much about it honestly.

If one wants to continue gambling, then one can take the profits from bitcoin and dump them into the marijuana stocks, which have just corrected, and continue on with that high risk appetite OR one can buy Utilities stocks for the dividends. I've been thinking about all those bubbles that have happened recently - 3D printing, bitcoin mining, marijuana stocks (and by extension MJ growing).  What's the common factor behind it all? They all require a lot of power. Hence, utilities stocks.

Speaking of latest bubbles. I feel that electric cars will start dominating the market soon. Think of the missing air plane for example, supposedly it was transporting some patent holders for Nikolai Tesla's suppressed technology which is deemed to be the reason for the flight to get missing. Also, the Tesla Motors' electric cars are really impressive.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/conspiracy/malaysiapatent.asp

My point of view

1, Depends on country, here in Europe, my country, you dont need to declare where you have your money from ;) So ...here no
2, As much profitable as you can loose ...WIthout inside info its gambling ;)
3, Big market caps (over 5Bln) wich have low price ...

see this

http://www.gurufocus.com/stock/PBR

Seems plausible, some conspiracy theories are lame.

Back to the topic. Speaking of bitcoin profits, what do you guys think of such plan:
1. go to work
2. get a loan and buy a X, Y or Z
3. pay back the loan gradually from your salary
4. live off your bitcoin profits (food, toilet paper, booze, hookers, drugs)

When loan gets paid back, you have saved a lot of bitcoins because during that time the value went up. Also, because you only cashed out the pocket money and spent it on stuff that is hard to tax, you dodged the taxes. Win win, no?

Worst case scenario 1:
1. you lose your job
2. declare your bitcoin profits and just pay back the whole loan at once

Worst case scenario 2:
1. Bitcoin loses its value and you don't have any PeerCoins either.
2. At least you have your job, but now you're the system's slave. No more drugs and hookers.

Worst case scenario 3:
(most likely due to the first law of the universe --- conservation of irony)
1. You lose your job, bitcoin loses its value and you go to jail for tax evasion
2. Say "IT WAS WORTH IT" and take what life gives you.

Any takers?

1,2,3,4 all yes but with a consideration:

I would try to prevent worst case scenarios. It is plausible that your state will want to put his hands on your treasure and IMO you must declare it somehow unless you keep it in btc as it is. In order to transform your bitcoins into other kind of properties you have to declare your wealth, at least partially.
This said, I would decide to apply the most convenient taxation I could find, adapting existing laws to your particoular case (of course with the help of a professionist) in such a way it would be honestly plausible to explain your choices in front of a government-issued inspection / tribunal / other state attempts to get more money from you. You can't go to jail for breaking a rule which doesn't even exist yet, but of course you have to pay taxes especially if you are now a millionaire. Remember you hold your bitcoins steady on your pocket and you can trade a good bargain with your local administration BEFORE transforming btc into other assets.

Otherwise take an airplane to a btc-accepting country and enjoy freedom. Thus I would definitely prefer living where I already am and find a way to do so without being raped by the local tax office.

I guess what I was trying to propose was that if you work then there are less questions of where your money comes from, thus taking a loan for a house or whatever seems possible. Still, you don't want to work your ass off, but just enough to make it plausible that you can afford a loan. You don't really want to work, so the job you choose should be super easy and have as few working days as possible, just enough to explain how you pay your loan while living off bread scraps and water. But instead of bread scraps, you can afford something better as if your salary was a little greater. The free time you get from such a system can be reinvested in your personal bitcoin project for example. Once your project succeeds, you can hire yourself and then bitcoin profits are no longer needed and can remain as a long term investment --- untouched.