Bitcoin Forum

As one collects more bitcoins, where do you keep them? Currently all my bitcoins are at mybitcoin.com, but what happens if this site goes down? is it better to send all the bitcoins to your bitcoin client? then what happens if your computer crashes?

So, where does the "smart" guy keep his bitcoins? (what are the best practices for having hundreds, or thousands of bitcoins?)

Encrypted backups of wallet.dat are the best, in most people's opinions, and if you email them to yourself and keep a copy on a thumbdrive you should be good. Just remember to backup frequently.

I currently have all my bitcoins in the client, and my wallet.dat is continuously backed up via dropbox, which means it's copied to all my devices I run dropbox on, as well as accessible on their website.  Oh, and I'd have to lose two disks at once for me to lose any data on my main machine.

If you want to try out dropbox, use this link and we'll both get some extra space for free.
http://db.tt/zNEiy6C

Regardless, back up your wallet.dat somehow: usb drive, another computer, an online service, or some combination.  It's not necessary to do continuous backups like I do since your wallet has 100ish pre-generated keys, but after you go through your keys and have to generate a new chuck of them, you need to backup again.  Hopefully someone else can clue you in on how to tell when that happens.

So both of you are suggesting using the client to store the coins (then backing up accordingly), not a web service?

Yes - a web service is an okay middle man but long term, I'd rather have control of my coins than a website.

If you want any kind of assurance, it's best to hold yourself responsible rather than a fairly new internet entity.  I don't know anything about mybitcoin.com, it's probably fine, but by keeping them in the client and backing them up myself I know who to blame when something goes wrong.

I keep my coins (such as they are) in my client's wallet, with an encrypted backup on an external drive. If it comes to a point where I actually have significant assets in BTC, I'll also keep that wallet in my dropbox in an encrypted volume.

I follow the 3-2-1 rule of data backup:

3 copies,
2 local,
1 off-site (cloud).

Exactly.  Some people use dropbox to not just back up but to replicate to other systems, including laptops or mobiles.   Do you really want your unencrypted wallet.dat replicated like that?

Here's more
  http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1679.msg29488#msg29488
  http://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Securing_your_wallet

This is what I would be using

1.) Bitcoin client saves coin to wallet.dat on encrypted hard drive.  {1 copy}
2.) Script saves this file every few minutes to 2 truecrypt files (TC1 & TC2) the script is set to copy twice and hold the previous copy for redundancy. Truecrypt with full encryption options key files and passwords. Keyfiles are unique for each and stored in a keyfile library. {9 copies}
3.) TC1 is saved to a dropbox sync along with keyfile for TC2
4.) TC2 is saved to a jumpdrive stored in fire proof/resistant vault at home with keyfile for TC1

level 1 failure -
1- CPU lost/stolen, I have the data secure on dropbox and on the USB drive in my home vault.
2- dropbox lost/stolen - usb storage and CPU still working.
3- USB storage lost/stolen - dropbox and CPU still running.
4- keyfile library lost/stolen - backup keys restored from dropbox locations and usb drive.

I could go on listing how far down I would have to go before the data is non recoverable. but this should give you a basic setup for a SECURE way to store your BTC with >= US Federal levels of redundancy. If you wanted to backup to past versions you would just need to rename the files on dropbox and the usb storage with the date. then your exceeding US FED standards (they dont require internal encryption. I also used to work computers at a bank, what a pain)

Don't put all your eggs in one basket. Even if you are methodical about backing up your bitcoin wallet file, it might not hurt to have a few coins elsewhere (e.g. MyBitcoin). Spread the risk.

Also, consider using more than one bitcoin wallet on your computer. Otherwise, if you make a typo and accidentally send 1234 bitcoins instead of 0.1234 bitcoins, you've lost everything.

heh... this may be Gold's only advantage:

A fool and his gold are soon parted, But a fool and bitcoins can part accidentally.

on second thought... maybe that's advantage: bitcoin? Finally some effective evolutionary pressure for intelligence and attention to typing.

Don't forget the risk of theft. Backups won't help if your coins get spent. Best to split off some of your coins to long term savings, transfer them to a separate wallet, securely back up that wallet, and securely delete it. Unfortunately this isn't easy with the current client.

This is why full hard drive encryption and off site encrypted backup is the best way to go.

Print them out and put them in a safe;

http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3716.0

As far as I know, nobody has looked through my code yet, but I did just release this tool: http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3735.0

Right now I have four wallets. Savings, checking, mining, and portable. Savings is self explanatory. I keep an address from the savings wallet in the outgoing address list of all of the other wallets. I very rarely open it, and just do transfers when necessary. Checking is my high turnover wallet, I don't keep a large balance but I spend from it often. The mining wallet is the one I use when solo mining, since it has to be open all the time. This way, as long as I transfer any generation revenue out, there's little chance of anything being stolen. Finally, I keep a wallet stored on a USB drive on my keychain, along with a portablized Bitcoin client.

Now that I think about it, I will probably ditch the dedicated portable wallet and just set my checking wallet to back up to my thumb drive.

As a bit of a pitch... all of this is made incredibly easy by WalletBuddy. :)

truecrypt volume backed up to private folder on wuala cloud + to friends computers with crashplan

dropbox (https://www.dropbox.com/referrals/NTgzOTM3OQ?src=global9) + truecrypt (http://www.truecrypt.org/) = win

If someone knows whoo runs Truecrypt - they need a bitcoin dontation link on their site.

http://www.truecrypt.org/downloads

I would suggest Dropbox as others have. However, if you're looking for a website to store your coins on, our website bitcoin2cash.com uses encrypted backups to multiple cloud services. With any website though, you are putting your trust into them.

If I wanted to secure  my wallet I just need to encrypt the wallet.dat file and save it somewhere safe, I mean, I don't need anything else in the .bitcoin directory, right? (I use Debian, but I guess that doesn't have anything to do with it)

If it's as simple as that I'm thinking about storing an encrypted version of the wallet.dat file on my Wuala account but also maybe have it somewhere safe IRL on a usb memory stick. Maybe hidden inside a really boring book or something like that.

Here's something I've never heard, I keep one of my backups on the sd card in my camera.
I also have a really old 512mb sd card that I keep in my real wallet, so I have my wallet in my wallet, lol.
of course stupid amounts of redundancy are best used for your savings account. My public wallet is only backed up in a few easy to access places because you need to back it up more frequently.

i just emailed donations@truecrypt.org and asked them

Me too and just pledged 30 btc once they start accepting them.

Truecrypt is truly one of the highest-quality programs out there. A pleasure to use, and surely worth a few coins.

To the topic; I keep my coins on my desktop client, backed up on 2 other hard drives. But I just bought a fresh USB stick which I plan to make a savings account on, to put in my safe.

True crypt and creating copy is no way. True crypt install disk and while it trojan can steal. Only way is working on encrypted by _bitocon_client_ file wallet.dat. If not yet this secure client version, can keep on mybitcoin or Mt Gox parts of money.

usb stick under the mattress.

duh.

Funniest thing I've read all day!  :D


Myself, I encrypt it. Put on a couple of usb sticks and email myself a copy with a web based email account.

You encrypt only copy? To security client _must_ work on encrypted wallet, only client must known password, encrypted partitions by TryCrypt is insufficient.

As another point of redundancy:

This guy advertises himself as "online backups for the truly paranoid".

http://www.tarsnap.com/

The guy is kind of a math and crypto whiz.  He used to be Security Officer of FreeBSD; don't know whether that's the case still.  He's cperciva at Hacker News.  His personal website:

http://www.daemonology.net

Given his pricing policy:


I bet he could be convinced to take bitcoins.

[Disclaimer: I don't know the man nor am associated with him in any way.  I have never used his service and I can't vouch for it first hand.  It just seems an obvious fit for this thread.]

My whole hard drive is encrypted. For backups I encrypt the wallet then put on a stick. The file I'm emailing is encrypted.

Maybe I'm missing something but you can save your BTC in _ the vacuum of space.

1) Install a client on a spare machine. Generate one bitcoin address and save the wallet.dat file. Put that wallet.dat somewhere safe (for example on a USB stick in a bank). You should of course have multiple safe copy.

2) Send any money you want to save to the address. That's it.


The day you will need that money, you will of course have to find back one of the copy of the wallet.dat file and run it through a client. All your savings should miraculously appear!

That's correct. You only have to access your savings wallet to spend coins, not deposit. Though, you're not storing anything in the vacuum of space, just the block chain (essentially, other people's computers).

It was just a poetic license ;-)