Bitcoin Forum

This could be the reason for a strong chinese sell off today:

Update: Proper translation seems to indicate it's an outright Ban on Banks/Financial institutions rather than just a warning.

Reuters:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/12/05/china-bitcoin-idUSL4N0JK1KZ20131205

The Verge:

http://www.theverge.com/2013/12/5/5177550/bitcoin-banned-from-chinese-banks-amid-fears-of-laundering

Bloomberg:

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2013-12-05/china-s-pboc-bans-financial-companies-from-bitcoin-transactions

Well anyone who expected governments or banks to welcome bitcoins with open arms is was a fool anyway. It's likely just speculators driving price down, and a few clueless bitcoin holders selling off. If you invested into bitcoins thinking that a huge thorn in government/banks would really go through without a problem, please, get rid of your coins asap, and give it to people with some intelligence.

China said it is a commodity that citizens are free to trade. They made sure to put that in there official letter. They are saying it can be used to trade and store of value but not as a currency. Oh boo hoo.

If anything that's good news! WTF is wrong with people? China didn't put their magic stamp of approval on it and worship Bitcoin as our new god? How horrible.

Yes exactly!

I guess people were disappointed China didn't immediately recognize Bitcoin as their new official currency, replacing the Yuan...

it might also mean they can't cash out bitcoins anymore to their banks, if that truly is the case we are in for a big massive dive. Hopefully that's not the case

Sorry, we have too many people with reading comprehension problem here....

If they now go after BTCChina...

And with a maximum attention span of 3 words.

"Chinese government says-" whaaaaa PANIC!

Well, their loss. Suckers. Too bad I don't have money at exchanges currently, to profit from it :-(

Lol, if I was a journalist, I'd write a made up story saying "US government bans Bitcoin. Anyone who owns Bitcoin faces up to 36 months imprisonment". Then when the value crashes by 80% I'd buy all the coins I can afford and retract the article.

Even if you lost your job over it, who cares, you'd instantly be rich.

OMG! So Chinese Bank did what any sane governmental entity would do : Say that bitcoin can have negative uses too.

Oh, wow, better sell all our coins for this.

This news only said that bitcoin can not be used as fiat currency, bitcoin is merchandise

That's the kind of thing you go to prison over though. (I believe, not legal advice)


This is pretty bullish I think actually

my reaction, in order:

1: ouch, this hurts  :o
2: cheap chinese coins coming...
3: this will be the biggest tree shake ever
4: oh shit, what if the chinese really drag the market down underground?

oh no. bitcoin is back to where it was yesterday.  i cant take this

5: Carry on, nothing more to see here

if you put "china", "bitcoin", and "ban" into a reuters press release, this is what you get.

Saying that bitcoins can not be used as currency completely destroys the intrinsic value of bitcoin.

Do you know what the word intrinsic means?

That's a rhetoric question.

The network and the ability to send money is a huge part of the value, it isn't required for the whole planet to use it as a currency for the bitcoin network to have large value.

But they aren't objecting to the use as currency? Only to using the word currency?

Saying that financial institutions can't handle transactions will probably more act to deter speculation then buying/selling of goods using BTC.

Markets are hit hard downwards, looks like this news is pretty big in China. Not looking good  :-\

Transalations confirm that it is not just a warning, but a "BAN" .

This might mean that people in china can't cash out their coins which is causing the panic

Hahah nice  ;D

Moar panic selling please.

Whew. Thanks for warning. Almost missed this. Have a really light-colored ticker I can't see well. BTCBTCBTC

I never trusted anyone that goes full in the water without dipping their toe first. China did this with bitcoin, they went fanatic and all. If their destiny is to sell, then SELL (to me and my fellow friends on this forum)

Makes exactly zero sense to sell coins if you can't cash them out, does not it? Would make sense to *buy* coins and get them to external exchanges and cash out there, if that would've been the case. Looks like just another one of the herd running panics, good thing.

so, china forbid banks to use bitcoin as a currency

well, did any bank use bitcoin yet? hm...

Just saw $870 on Gox, feels like forever since i saw that figure  :o

But seems to be holding at a strong resistance of $900

the last support was 850. so it will hold for a while. if panic does not stop, hello 400 :)

Yep you're right but they probably wanna cash out now before it comes officially into law one can assume.

thoste titles are so fake ... no one banned anything ... it was just a warning ...

i asked a chinese friend and it seems like an outright ban based on proper translation, let me know if it's not correct! so i can update the post

Learn chinese and win. It's a BAN!

Just sell NOW. the bubble Chinese money will leave the bitcoin system. Price will crash hard!

I call shenanigans on both of you. Ban on what exactly? Not a ban on Bitcoin. A ban on banks handling bitcoins means nothing materially at this time, because no banks in China (or anywhere in the world) handle bitcoins anyway.

Really?  While I agree learning Chinese is a good idea, quit trying to scare people.  From the crappy Google translation:


So even the crappy Google translation makes clear it is not a ban on people holding bitcoins.  It may be a ban on banks holding them or using them like they would RMB, but that wasn't likely to begin with.

doesnt china censor the internet? i thought amerika was messed up.

From what I have read, this is not really a ban, however all bitcoin handling businesses in China, e.g. btcchina, must register with some authority in China, which I forgot its name, otherwise they will be forcibly removed from operation.

It's not correct.. lol

explain

Holy lord, this made as much effect on the market as Thanks Giving.
But Honey Badger doesn't care.

Hmmm. This is offered by any altcoin, which are also cheaper and have a better protokol

Two key points:

"Financial and payment institutions are urged not to use bitcoin pricing for products or services"

Source: http://rt.com/business/bitcoin-china-financial-institution-754/

"Websites in China that provide trading services are required to report investors' identities to regulators and take steps to prohibit money laundering"

Source: http://money.cnn.com/2013/12/05/investing/china-bitcoin/

reeks of #disinfo. don't sell, hold!

http://i42.tinypic.com/mt2wds.png

 ;D

So let's see... There are two possible futures for bitcoin :

1) prices go down. China government had protected the banks and financial institutions and warned individuals that took the risk.
Result: government looks good.

2) prices go up. China government had allowed individuals to continue to trade bitcoin and thus people have reaped profit.
Result: government looks good.

This is exactly the sort of official stance I would have expected them to take.

One thing is clear is that we won't see any Chinese Banks, Investment banking institutions, mega chinese funds, retirement funds, insurance funds, etc etc investing in Bitcoin or bitcoin related infrastructure and businesses anymore, which is a huge Negative IMO for Bitcoin's long term future in China specifically and expected accelerated price rise to $10,000. It's gonna be purely people only thing, unless the Gov changes its mind in the future.

News flash: Bitcoin getting attention from governments around the world => Hugely bullish for Bitcoin

Thank you for providing some actual legit analysis instead of immediately shouting THIS BULLISH YOU MORONS BUY BUY BUY!11

My Takeaway:

1) China says btc is not currency or money in an official sense. No kidding. I think we all know it is not a currency or money in a traditional sense. It is something new and different. Not news.

2) China says btc not to be integrated into financial institutions. Really? It is incompatible with legacy financial institutions, and replaces them. It is outside of those institutions. Not news.

3) China says btc can be used by individuals and businesses. Captain Obvious anyone? Aside from throwing people in jail for using it, you can't really stop that from happening. Not news.

4) China says exchanges must follow existing regulations. Why wouldn't they? They are using Yuan, and China is in charge of Yuan. They have a duty to manage Yuan. Not news.


In the end, they pretty much just formalized what everyone already knew. The end result is a removal of a level of uncertainty, which is probably on balance a positive for btc.

Blue Horseshoe loves bitcoins.

This is actually good.  This means the people will buy the BTC and the banks will stay out of it, and if the PRoC puts its money where its mouth is, the government won't be buying any either, which is also good long term.  This advisory simply states that the people can use it, but the government and banks won't.

What does that have to do with anything?

I'm noticing a pattern of altcoin pumpers tagging along on any argument made for Bitcoin vs. fiat, as if the fact that an altcoin could do the same thing is relevant. If someone were attacking altcoins it would be, but when the argument is merely about crypto vs. fiat, it comes off as a desperate attempt to remind everyone that altcoins exist. 

Did you notice the words, "at this stage"? They explicitly reserved the right to change their policy.

China isn't the entire world though. There are many big institutions, funds, etc. outside of China who are following bitcoin closely and are not affected by this.

First of all, they specifically said, "At this stage" and that's entirely reasonable. The government would be crazy to let insurance funds put ordinary citizens money into Mt.Gox (as an example), doesn't that seem crazy to you as well? China well knows that although our bitcoin economy has improved vastly, it's still run largely by first time entrepreneurs who are doing it all by trial and error. No way in heck large financial institutions should be putting customers money into exchanges run by inexperienced and under-backed entrepreneurs. When the wall street exchanges are up and running for real, I'm sure world governments will reconsider. At the moment however, could you imagine offering insurance for bitcoin? It's an insane proposition at this point.

Bitcoin will be a world currency, but it does take more then a few months or years. 

Perfect.