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I hopen he would have lived another 20 years , to see what crap South Africa is turning into.

I read some distubring stuff yesterday about the reason Mandela being in prison for so long not because of his political views, but because he and his group were bombing civilians  :-\ Complicated history here...

I made the mistake of going to the World Cup  there , I'm not going to that country even .... for bitcoins.

It seems that often when you dig on person turns out they did some or had some rather disturbing things or views. Like Mother Theresa...

 and ghandi, and martin luther king.. you see all these public heroes, and you begin to question everything. it's a vicious cycle. sometimes i have to ask myself if i'm being too cynical, and i don't know what the answer really is. all these people that we've been told to worship are still human beings after all.

I'd go out on a limb and say most if not all world leaders/figures have blood on their hands in some regard. Politics is a dirty game no matter how clean you are going in. Still, Mandela's positive effect on South Africa and the world at large cannot be denied.

When I read MLK was a noted womanizer and beat his wife, it's like my world crumbled around me. I didn't want to believe it because when I was a kid he was my absolute hero. Like you said, they are still human beings and no one is perfect. Some are more perfect than others but no one is absolutely perfect.

Somewhat off topic: This is why I never understood celebrity worship. The entertainment industry is an industry of smoke and mirrors. I cannot fathom how anyone can tolerate Beyonce knowing she's as dumb as a box of rocks and clearly worships herself, and she's enough of a greedy asshole to do ads for Pepsi and speak out on initiatives for reducing obesity in the US... Celebrities are tools of brainwashing the public, keeping them distracted.

/conspiracy theory/rant over

Don't forget to have a toast to the memory of the man with one of Nelson Mandella's alcopops: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K04rSfSAZR8

I saw a picture today, it said R.I.P Nelson Mandela and there was a picture of Morgan Freeman :facepalm:

http://memecrunch.com/meme/NIAA/r-i-p-nelson-mandela/image.png

it is a shame how uneducated people are today, a lot of people don't even know what he did and what made him what he was until he died  :-\

Rest in peace Nelson, but here's a real picture of him now :D

http://cdn2.khloekcdn.celebuzz.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/khloe-kardashian-rip-Nelson-Mandela-580x580.jpg

i was at work yesterday and told some of the people that nelson mandela died. they said "who is that again?"

last monday/tuesday, they were talking about paul walker's death.. i put two and two together. when paul walker dies, it's big headlines.. when someone like nelson mandela dies it's "who is that again?" ... which is a sad state of affairs.

you know that there is something wrong with our society when a death of a movie actor is more publicized then a death of a truly great man and a revolutionary..

Haha that is just a joke.

R.I.P. in peace :'(

Isn't it more than obvious that this is the result of people trolling? I mean even if you don't know how Mandela looks like you certainly know about Freeman.

A truly fucking great man! 


In post-apartheid South Africa, unemployment has been extremely high as the country has struggled with many changes. While many blacks have risen to middle or upper classes, the overall unemployment rate of blacks worsened between 1994 and 2003.[41] Poverty among whites, previously rare, increased.[42] In addition, the current government has struggled to achieve the monetary and fiscal discipline to ensure both redistribution of wealth and economic growth. Since the ANC-led government took power, the United Nations Human Development Index of South Africa has fallen, while it was steadily rising until the mid-1990s.[43] Some may be attributed to the HIV/AIDS pandemic, and the failure of the government to take steps to address it in the early years.[44]
In May 2008, riots left over sixty people dead.[45] The Centre on Housing Rights and Evictions estimates over 100,000 people were driven from their homes.[46] The targets were mainly migrants and refugees seeking asylum, but a third of the victims were South African citizens.[45]

not all people know how he looks like :p
it was probably a joke but a certain amount of people didn't notice it was a joke for sure :D


Rest in peace in peace?  ???

My guess is they searched for Nelson Mandela on google, and Freeman's picture came up because he played Mandela in Invictus.

Or it's just a joke. People always do it when somebody dies. 'RIP Heath Ledger' over an image of Jack Nicolson's Joker etc. I tried to find the image but failed, so this will have to do instead:




https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-vNrYlWBzWrY/TimXUBKUW_I/AAAAAAAAAII/YNg2guxxETc/w453-h500-no/why-so-serious-jack-nicholson-joker-autograph-heath-ledger-453x500.jpg

Mandela did whatever he could to improve the living standards. But others in the ANC soon took over and destroyed everything.

How was your experience in South Africa? I know that the crime rate is sky-high there. Will be glad to hear that you didn't had any bad experiences.

Well , the second day I tried to ask the hotel staff about a certain place where I was supposed the meet one of my friends, knowing it was close by. But I got it wrong the first time , and that guy told me
 - You can't go there!
 - Why not?
 - Well , it's not safe for ... white people after this hour!
Then I tried to explain him that it's actually a four star hotel in this area so it can't be that bad and he said..
-  Aaa , you mean x ,  yeah that's only two streets from here , it's safe.

Now , how much do you think I visited of Johannesburg and Cape Town excluding the airports?

The Truth About Nelson Mandela (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7HyuLPWF9I)

That is quite one-sided. Most of the crimes against White and Asian people in Apartheid-era South Africa were committed by extremist elements within the ANC, such as Thabo Mbeki. No need in blaming Nelson Mandela for that.

I will always remember his quote "After climbing a great hill, one only finds that there are many more hills to climb." So as he said, we have to fight for us beliefs and never give up from dreams!

Nice words , but in real life fighting for your beliefs ends up killing others that do the same for their beliefs.
And this isn't the way for happy dreams to come true.

If Nelson Mandela is a terrorist what does that make Bush, Blair, & Obama?

So , by this comparison we don't have any other terrorists.
Should we label them by grade  1 , 2?

I'd say measure them in numbers of people they've killed, or displaced o,r children that they've orphaned.

I think the only terrorists people need to worry about are the UK/US governments.

Nothing about the chinese leaders?
One example of their actions:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Chinese_Famine

Stalin killed 60 million Russians / Ukrainians / Belorussians . What would you like to call him?

It wasn't my intention to list every act of terrorism that has ever been carried out by a country's government. What wars have China started in the last 50 years?

May He rest in peace...

Does anyone know of any good books on Mandela? I'd like to read an impartial one if possible, but also ones who considered him a terrorist and those that considered him a hero - or perhaps even both.

I'd recommend his autobiography. Can be purchased from the Amazon for $11.35.

Most of the books which portray him as a terrorist are banned in online stores like Amazon, and might be available only from the black-markets.

Well his autobiography isn't going to be impartial :P, but I guess it'll be a good place to start and to see what he has to say about his side of the story.

And why are the books banned? Were they written by slanderous racist twats or something?

I meant that they are not be available from mainstream book stores. Well... one man's hero is another's terrorist.  ;D

The fact is that he and his goons just wanted the power for themselves.   Apartheid is a great injustice no doubt, but you don't solve it by giving the unjust privileges that the white people had and handing them over to black people.

That is the lesson that should be learnt from this whole sorry story.  

A majority does not rule any better than a minority.  Americans should be familiar enough with this fact.

It's called plausible deniability.  You let others do the dirty work from which you benefit and then when confronted about it, you claim no knowledge.

Republican logic
Obama wants to give people healthcare = Dictator = Lets get our Guns and have a revolution

Yet Mandela was the biggest terrorist ever for taking action against a factually oppressive government that actively oppressed the majority of people. Then was imprisoned and actually switched to a non violent philosophy avoiding major bloodshed after the oppressive government was taken down.

Hmm.

That's true.

Can anyone recommend any decent films/docs on him as well?

Hmm... that is quite easy. Let's start with Mandela: Long Walk to Freedom. Invictus is also pretty good, but not unbiased. Cry Freedom is another decent movie.

I'll add a post from another thread here:


Why 50 years?
Lets see how many wars China has started in the last 2000.
How many wars has Turkey started in the last 50 years? But in the last 500? They've trashed my country like 100 times the last millennium.

Well , Germany hasn't started anything in the last 50 years. They must be the most peaceful people on earth !

Because I was talking about terrorists you need to be worried about. China isn't trying to be The World Police.

Why don't you list all the wars and invasions and coos and puppet governments America has been involved in? Guarantee it dwarfs Chinas list.

Mandela is not a saint. Neither is he particularly intelligent nor balanced. He spent the last 20 years of his life watching his 'dream' being exposed as a fantastic, self-congratulatory lie which saw SA descend into the kind of chaos and criminality that was unheard of even under the unofficial estimates in the Apartheid regime. He was a racially biased racist scum who masqueraded and probably even fooled himself about being the great 'peacemaker'.

He is the perfect example of the folly that is today's 'revolutionaries' and 'freedom fighters'. They are anything but, only mere shadows of the true fighters and soldiers who died for their cause during and upto WW2.

Wannabes. Imitators. Just like Che Guevara. Their 'appeal' is not based on solid and determined understanding of the world, only personal pipe dreams and impulses dressed up as a just cause which appeals to impulsive nature of frustrated masses whose misery is as much of their own making as their oppressors. When their own lack of abilities bring even greater misery, they either slink away with their tails tucked in, or bitch and moan about how it's 'other' people's fault that world does not cater to their personal tastes.

As a minority living in US, I am highly amused at the idea that this fool somehow tried to spin SA apartheid regime as the next nazi germany. I have seen the faces of people who lived under fascism and outright cultural genocide. They always have a good laugh listening to world news about these so called 'saints' and 'freedom fighters' who gullible media idolizes.

Not only the invasions. You should also count the "war by proxy" methodology followed by the Americans. A classic example is the Afghanistan involvement in the 1980s. USA gave Taliban fighters Stinger missiles, so that they'll fight the Soviets. Now many of those Stinger missiles are in the possession of the Iranian military, after Taliban sold them for money.

At that time, the Taliban were freedom fighters for the Americans, and terrorists for the Russians.

Same case here. The ANC were regarded as "freedom fighters" by some, and as "terrorists" by someone else.

All this is, fundamentally, is people looking for some good, in an inherently bad situation, so that they can justify said situation.

Unable to really find much they start pointing out worse situations and then using the excuse that "well, they weren't anywhere near as bad as x".   Which is really just a form of Stockholm Syndrome.

And that's assuming you are a good person.  If you're not a good person, you of course won't have any problem defending bad people.

Why would big government be any more of a solution to problems in South Africa than it is anywhere else?   

In fact, if you think Mandela is a good person and if you think it's just a matter of getting someone good to be your leader, then South Africa should be one of the best countries in the world to live in.  Since it isn't, either one or both of those premises are incorrect. 

The French Resistance were heroes , the people in Afghanistan are terrorists.
It doesn't matter what do you do in a war , the winner always picks the heroes :)

Did anyone hear about that fake Sign Language interpreter at the Mandela memorial? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StEFnh18zRk

Pretty funny. Epic troll.

It's thanks to the CIA (and NSA intercepts) that Mandela was arrested and imprisoned for 27 years, goes to show that nothing really changes with our corrupt intelligence agencies, still up to their dirty tricks  ;)

The last few shows on Democracy Now! have covered this story in depth:

Polaroid & Apartheid: Inside the Beginnings of the Boycott, Divestment Movement Against South Africa
http://www.democracynow.org/2013/12/13/polaroid_apartheid_inside_the_beginnings_of (http://www.democracynow.org/2013/12/13/polaroid_apartheid_inside_the_beginnings_of)

"One of Our Greatest Coups": The CIA & the Capture of Nelson Mandela
http://www.democracynow.org/2013/12/13/one_of_our_greatest_coups_the (http://www.democracynow.org/2013/12/13/one_of_our_greatest_coups_the)

Yes. The winner gets the chance to rewrite the history books. So we have Serbs the "eternal aggressors" exterminating (sic) the poor, innocent secular Albanians.

Also, we have a group of eternal victims, 6 million of whom perished in WW2.

The list can go on and on...