Bitcoin Forum

Since my friend has quit his job due to making money trading coins, he/we have some spare time freed up. Even though we have both made a good amount trading so far we are both long term believers of the concept as a revolution on several different levels.

I want to go around to local businesses (hopefully more in the future) promote the benefits of BTC (need I say we were both salesmen?) to the local community in an understandable, relatable way to do our part in informing those who do not know yet.

We've already told a lot of people about the speculative nature but I was wondering if some of the more knowledgeable could help by outlining the benefits of using btc as a payment platform or in business use.

The main benefits I know in that aspect are less fees and  no chargebacks.. But how much in fees? This is in Australia, if that's much different. What else can BTC provide a small/medium business owner? I know a few alternative bars and shops that would get on board mostly just for the "gimmick" and alt nature of cryptos. But what of the real benefits?

Close to zero transaction fees

No chargebacks

What more do you need?

First of all, this is a great thing you guys are doing. It will benefit the entire currency in general as this is the REAL place Bitcoin needs investment (that is useful trade opportunities, not just buyin' 'em up).

The fees are in order of fractions of a cent at current exchange rates. They could opt to keep the bitcoins which they might choose to do if they can usefully spend it (maybe their suppliers will be happy to accept Bitcoins?!) or use a service like bitpay.com to receive payments in bitcoin which get exchanged immediately into fiat (I don't know if there is a service that does this for AUD though).

Another benefit a company might find tempting would be the possible media attention they would get for doing this.

Just to make this right, it is more like 9 cents at the moment (0.0001 BTC * 900$ / BTC).  Not much, but also not "fractions of a cent".  That said, at the moment it is still possible to send free transactions if you are careful not to include too many inputs in a single transaction and if you have patience to wait a few hours for it to confirm.

Otherwise, I also thank you for your efforts, this is exactly what we need!

I think it would be a good idea to show them the story of the Tesla car that was successfully sold with bitcoins. It's one thing to simply talk about bitcoin success and feasibility but when you have actual examples and data in your hands its much more convincing to the businesses. At leas that is what I would do.

hey OP

 I  am on board with you, I run a cool Michelin Guide listed restaurant in Brooklyn NY, and we are exploring accepting bitcoins.

 Of course we could do it informally, wallet to wallet transfers, but that would be more for cachet and increasing our personal holdings.

 If we got it up and running, it would have the potential to save thousands in CC fees every month. In the US, the CC companies take upwards of 3% per transaction!

 A good day is around 10k, of which there is approx 75% credit cards, which is $225 a DAY in fees.

 In a business where a GREAT profit margin is 25%, its shocking to pay almost 10% of your profit in fees.

 Ideally, the best way to spread BTC transactions to retail, is to figure out, finance, and support a Point of Sale solution that is easy to use and affordable.

for a cheaper method, you could make a new user FAQ, with links to mobile wallets, and bitpay or whoever will process payments in AUS and go around to shops and bars, showing them how it works, and even sending them a few satoshis from your own wallet to get them started.

also STICKERS!

I tried to buy a "bitcoins accepted here" sticker, for $1 but $3.50 to mail it! 

I agree with many of the other things said in replies, but would add a few additional points.

1) Know the legal status for Australia - Businesses want to know that they have recourse if someone stiffs them
2) Know how taxes would work - In the case of immediately exchanging via Bitpay, this isn't an issue, but ideally these shops would be able to start paying their vendors and employees with Bitcoins, in which case they need to calculate taxes on Bitcoin sales.
3) Research each business and relate benefits specifically to them if possible.  Being former salesmen I doubt you needed to hear something like this, but others might find it useful.

Finally, I want to join others in thanking you for doing this, it is exactly what is needed.  I would also be interested to hear how you make out, as I wouldn't mind doing a little bit of this on the side as well.

Re temp1029

1. there still is no recourse built into cash, or btc. If a guy paid in cash you have no proof either. It's about believing in the process

 Maybe add a EULA kinda legal contract option built into the wallet apps?, ie
"I agree to pay the (merchantname) BTC0.01227 or the USD$10.90 at (spot rate) on this (autodate) with transaction number (blockchain) for items as listed below

1 pizza $10

subtotal  $10
tax $0.90
total $10.90
"

This saves to both your wallets as proof of payment. The cops or the courts might not have a clue how this works yet, but a receipt from a store is a binding proof of sale. So if we are going to use Btc's other strengths, such as verifying transactions, then we can save these "public" receipts. This is totally optional, so if you are sending cash you can skip it.

Once the courts catch up to Btc, it won't take long for courts and lawyers to understand that theft is theft.

2. taxes are a totally separate thing in retail sales. the business is licensed and registered in their city state country and they are obligated by law to collect those taxes. Prices will always have to be convertible to fiat, and taxes charged on applicable rates.

if you came to my pizza place, a $10 pizza has .8875% NYC sales tax so it totals at 10.90 (huh? anyways..) so if you wanted to pay in Btc, it would be 0.01227 at the spot price of $888/BTC1

Even when I settle the check in Btc, I have rung in a sale of $10USD and over that USD$.90 to the city.
 

1) I wasn't talking about charge back like recourse, but more along the lines of taking someone to court for theft.  Thanks for helping me to clarify.  I like your suggestion about an EULA and a "audit trail" of sorts, that would go a long way
2) Very true, but calculating those taxes, when pricing things in Bitcoin might be difficult.  I buy a BTC0.01227 pizza at the spot price of $888/BTC1.  That same amount could be worth more or less in the fiat currency of choice if it isn't immediately converted.  So the shop owner pays the $0.90 to then city but what about the gains?  If there are losses to the value, can those be written off?  Like I said, this only applies if it isn't instantly converted to fiat.

This is exactly my plan also to get the word out to help promote the use of BTC as opposed to just collecting and trading it. Maybe you can produce a nice video from a - z and a good powerpoint presentation then go around and maybe also do meetup events educating not only local businesses but the Shoppers and Consumers and Customers that are using all these local Institutions. :) It all starts with a Community type feel approach that works best, leveraging BTC to all parts of the local economy.. :)

Thanks for your advice guys, much appreciated, especially brooklynbtc for providing those numbers and real world application. I think that will be most effective.

We have a few merchant services in AU similar to bitpay that I think will be simple to set up for merchants. Just need to explore the difference in fees, I think this is the key point to drive home to open eyes to the idea.

We have a few meetings set up with business owners soon, I'll post how it goes :)

Also were thinking of doing a YT channel on chart movements, news and other coin related stuff too, if anyone is interested

Hey MG,

 Glad to help, I'm a long time believer and trying to get them accepted at my restaurant, but its really about ease of use right now. I could easily do wallet to wallet transactions, but then its almost like running a pawn shop. Why stop at Btc? why not accept gold jewelry or used stereo equipment for dinner, if I am personally the one interested in obtaining Btc.

 Ideally the Point of Sale would translate a price, and optionally convert to fiat directly, and seamlessly.

 When someone pays with a credit card, we don't accept the credit card money, we have a processing company that does it, they take their fees, and they deposit the funds in our account a couple days later.

 So its really about the processing company and the POS company. HARD part is most people have a system set up.

 I know around here there are cheap simple credit card processors that use a cell phone, and of course there is Square, which uses a Smartphone to swipe your card. A coffee shop near me uses that, you sign with your finger on the screen and youre done.

 https://bitpay.com/ is one, but its more for websites.

https://coinkite.com/faq/terminal looks cool but i wonder how it will integrate with other systems.

 At this point if you were starting fresh, it would be great to be able to accept btc, but adding on to an existing (and expensive) system may not be simple just yet

 tldr; invest in companies like bitpay and coinkite

 



 

i have written an open letter to a supermarket chain in my country, i have also made an english translation, you could do something similar.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/102729494/Open%20letter%20Jumbo.pdf

Well today was a success. We pitched it to a local business owner. He was initially skeptical but we overcame his objections (standard "but it's not backed by anything" etc etc) and he's looking at implementing into his store ASAP. He is on the Financial Advisory Board for the chain of the franchise he owns and he says he has a lot of weight in there (his words were "Golden Child") as his store is one of the most successful.

Optimally it will be implemented on a nationwide chain of around 160 stores. We just have to look into the exact methodology of how is to implement it as seamlessly as possible into the business and go from there.

If anyone has any suggestions of merchant options for BTC in Australia, I'd love to know!!! Initially I think he would like to just convert it straight to fiat (AUD). I have looked into CoinJar, does anyone know of others?

If we see success here, I will take it to some larger chains, particularly in the tech retail sector where I work as I can see it gaining traction there, particularly after Bitcoin Black Friday's success.

Thanks again guys :)

Great news! Spread the fact and maybe someone will step in if there isn't already a suitable merchant. Keep up the momentum on getting this implemented though, otherwise it will end up losing steam and falling flat.

Well done.

Bitpay Bitpay Bitpay.  They offer their services in AUD currency.  Bitpay and Coinbase are hands down the leaders in getting merchants set up with bitcoin and handling their transactions to get rid of the risk of volatility. I  believe Coinbase only accepts merchants/consumers in America though at this time though.

They could find out all the information they need simply  be calling Bitpay and talking to them.  Of the top of my head though here's some numbers worth pointing out.... Over 12,000 merchants now accept bitcoins using bitpay , there's been over $100millon USD transactions through bitpay, they've handle LARGE transactions as high as $1milllion for a single transaction. Most transactions with bitpay are INSTANT(i'm sure there's a finincal limit on this though), the transaction goes through before there's ever even a single conformation on the blockchain..... this means in the rare attempt that someone might double spend, it doesn't matter for the merchant, it's bitpay that takes the loss and they have that accounted for in their business model already.


In your effort to educate local business owners, I suggest you pass along this link to them. https://bitpay.com/faq     
That should answer all if not most questions they have.  You might want to contact bitpay as well and see if they have any pamplets in pdf format or something that you can print out and hand to local business owners, that would save you ALOT of time of trying to explain things to people.

Good luck and thanks for spreading the word. It benefits everyone.

Coinkite, but it's still kinda in beta.

low fees and no charge backs is pretty tantalizing deal in my book.  Good luck with getting your local community and please let us know how it goes what you did that worked and what didn't.  :)

This.
Also people will be encouraged to deal with Bitcoins when they see a company that has offices in different parts of the world and is specializing in this kind of transactions compared to trusting a total stranger.

Lol. Stop with your silly promotions.

It cant work, tax law requires capital gains to be paid on bitcoin gains.

Everywhere on this planet? You sure about it?

Wow, ok. I'll halt all progress...

a) This would be, for now, direct conversion to fiat and under our current tax law (not in U.S) would be classed as income tax,  the same as cash, card, or anything else.

b) Our laws aren't the same as yours

BUT HOW CAN U HAS TAX CHARGED ON SOMETHING THAT I NOTHING??!K121JPEL

porc is a notorious troll and is the perfect test candidate for the Ignore feature (just under his username on the left of his posts).