Bitcoin Forum

And we shouldn't try.

Look. I, like so many of us, want to join the ranks of the worlds elite. I want to build a castle. I want to design a race car, then design an event in which to race it (and win). I want my midlife crisis to be filled with champagne and private flights to private mansions on private islands for private parties filled with 3-400 of my closest friends...(you guys can come)

but...please don't make the same mistake as the mighty "anonymous". Don't threaten the establishment. Stop making claims of "taking down the dollar" or "uprooting the entire centralized banking structure"

Why do I make such a request? not because these claims are impossible, not even because I don't believe they'll happen. It's only because the bigger and more public the threat, the more steps the established power structure will take in an attempt to discredit, disprove, and dismantle bitcoin.(and soon enough, they could succeed)

Just pay attention. Can't you see it happening already? bitcoin prices surge, they call it a bubble, we respond by laughing in their faces and the price just drives higher. They get nervous and  start issuing warnings about bitcoin. and not just bitcoin, the whole bitcoin community at large. Are we criminals, or investors looking for a get-rich-quick?

What do you think the next step is? the ball is in our court, so I say we relax. Sit back, get a mojito, buy/spend some bitcoin and wait. More and more people are joining our side, more businesses are accepting BTC, the price is stabilizing, people are spending them. You want bitcoin to take over the world? Shut up about it!

The pen holds more power than the posterboard, whispers more power than whining. You want people to really get involved? Use it as a way to live together with the dollar, not replace it.

Again, though, I'm not saying it can't or won't happen, I'm just saying we shouldn't make claims.

BTW, I'm not actually talking about anyone in specific here. seriously.

Back to my question though. What is next? They have already insinuated that we are all criminals or dupes believing in a get-rich-quick/ponzi/bubble sadly soon to lose everything. They have even issued "warnings associated with the risks of using internet currencies"

I see a few possibilities if some of us don't keep our mouths shut:

1, "criminals" evolve into "terrorists", soon enough a bomb goes off somewhere killing innocent people and payoff for the hit was made in BTC. Public outrage and suddenly people all over the world start turning their backs on BTC.

2, The "warnings" turn into "threats". many many people get their bitcoin wallets hacked and/or stolen in an attempt to disprove bitcoins inherent security.(lots of people don't have good security, or passwords) While the bitcoin infrastructure may be impenetrable, human error is always evident. and it'll be the most vulnerable of bitcoiners that get hit the hardest. thousands of wallets are taken and people lose faith.

3, they use their fantastic purchasing power to buy up every bitcoin they can get their hands on and either make BTC either so expensive that no one can ever afford one, or so cheap that no one ever wants one.

On the bright side though, I see several possibilities if we do calm down the trash talk a bit.

1). businesses will continue taking bitcoin. Some as a shameless PR stunt, I'm sure. But some because they have genuine faith in BTC as a viable currency. The latter group will grow even as the media attention dies down to a whisper, or nothing at all. Over time, bitcoin will just, kind of, sneak it's way into society as a real currency.

2). banks and major businesses see potential profits by catering to the bitcoin community and we start seeing "bitcoin accepted" showing up in commercials everywhere. Major banks offer services (for a small fee, of course) that make transacting between BTC and local currencies as seamless as a common ATM, perhaps even offering wallets of their own. (these will likely be a joke compared to the offerings online, but many in the unwashed masses will gravitate to them as they see them as "simpler") Even more BTC discounts/excuses to spend.

3). world business is forced to evolve. Transaction fees and wait times nearly vanish. A person can pay for a hotel room, have nummy local food delivered, pay for his cab fare, order tickets to a local concert, and tip any service staff he met along the way. All in the time it takes to ride from the airport to the hotel. all paid in bitcoin, all online, and all ok because even if a server or valet doesn't want to sit on a bunch of coins, they can actually get rid of them.

In closing, I think we should live in harmoney (get it?) with fiat currencies. At least for now. There will always be people who just don't get bitcoin. There will always be people who simply want nothing to do with it. Let's not shove it down their throats. I think, if we play our cards right, bitcoin could be as ubiquitous as disney, or coca-cola. It'll just happen quietly.

 IMO Bitcoin is NOT like the internet. Bitcoin is more like Tor: It's not very well understood, it holds an extreme level of value to certain people, some people use it for less than honourable ventures, some people have tried it and could care less. I think that if we treat BTC more like Tor, it will be much better accepted, and much less scary for the sheep who inevitably won't give a s&*t in the end either way.

You want bitcoin to succeed? Don't go to war! Don't talk trash! You only make the rest of us lose credibility. Defend bitcoin, but don't attack in the name of bitcoin. OK? If they back you into a wall, use the trap door to get away. you don't have a trap door? BS. In my stories, there's always a trap door. That last part didn't make sense? That's because it's 2am here and I'm so tired I'm becoming delirious. I should probably go to bed. Good night...

You want bitcoin to succeed? Don't go to war!

Bitcoin is still very experimental. Later very secure hardware wallets will be available, so this wont be problem

People are always afraid off what they don't know. They were afraid they couldn't breath when taking the first trains, because of their speed (40km/h I think).
But when they see that other people are just fine and even have advantage of them, they will clime aboard.
When the idea is good, it will eventually become a success. If not, it was fun as long as it lasted.

There is nothing to fear....

Bitcoin poises no threat. They can buy it all in a second, and they know that.

The powers that be already think of it as another tool in their arsenal.

It is not a danger to them, and neither are we.

The dollar will collapse, but that too is part of the plan.

 

Bitcoin is the best thing happened to world since subjugation of fire!

We are not trying to do that.
We don't threaten the establishment.
We don't make claims to take down the dollar or anything else whatsoever.

Obviously you are talking for some other community and not the bitcoin one...

Bitcoin is the future payment system, but now we must rely on Banks and fractional reserve

Bitcoin is the Internet of money and then some
Don't expect the powers that be to go quietly into the night...

I think Kain35m sure has a point. 'We' as a community might not be doing that, at least not intentionally. But the concensus still pretty much seems to be that we're a bunch of anarchists and conspiracy theorists.

My question is which country will allow buying with BitCoins? Buying with BTC-s will avoid paying taxes, so which country will like that?

I 've read countless articles from mainstream media about bitcoin being a bubble but not a single one that relates it with conspiracies or anarchy. Care to show me some?

Do you really think that by buying with BTC you can avoid taxes? How do you think this actually works in practice?

IF we don't challenge the status quo and power elites then nothing will change. Personally I'm not ok with the government devaluing our fiat currencies by printing more and more and spending my taxes on wars and bailing out bankers and selling off state-owned business to private capitalists. Bitcoin/crypto is a way to put the power back to the people as it should be, or at least make our muffled voices heard. It may or may not change the world, but we should keep doing what we're doing because they cannot stop this growing beast. Yes, I'm sure the governments and banks won't like what we're doing and try to regulate it and prosecute certain people for money laundering or tax evasion or whatnot, but they're going to have to adapt to survive this and they vertainly can't put us all in prison.

Consider your luck wished!
 ;D

I love all the passion on this board. If anyone has even the potential to take over, it's our generation, our community.

(BTW) I'm typing on a phone right now, so there may be the occasional grammatical or spelling error.)

I deeply believe, though, that if it's really going to happen, it'll happen behind the scenes. While no one is watching.

I think "Anonymous" had some serious potential. I hope that the anonymous community is still working to try and make a difference. But if you pay attention to the progression of events, no government or entity really had to disassemble them. They just kind of disappeared after the media coverage died away.

I don't want that to happen to us. The media coverage will stop. That's for sure. It's already happening. But where we'll we be when it stops completely? We don't need the media to survive. We can thrive and flourish without their help. But today is the time of the silent revolution. I truly believe The louder you are, the more doomed to failure. Remember the occupy movement?

I do believe that there's not a government on earth that can stop us. But I also believe we're now riding the fence between "bitcoin? Of course I take Bitcoin!" and"bitcoin? Oh yeah, I heard about that on the news once, whatever happened with that?"

But maybe I misspoke earlier too. We are already in the middle of war. The Bitcoin community is not the first to stand up for the people against "them", and we won't be the last. Just maybe don't stand up to "them" directly. We work so much better not as an Army, but as infiltrators, spies. Everyone wants to be a spy, right? Now is your chance. Spies are quiet, they don't go picking fights...

You can not, the goods are selling with VAT tax included.

things are onnly worth wat people will pay for them!

Bitcoin has great future, it is next step to get more freedom. Anyone who would want to ban or regulate Bitcoin doesnt care about free world, and just saying "this is just to protect you"

Bitcoin is only the beginning, but I don't think it will replace fiat currency.... at least not in 5-10 years  :D

I'm an anarchist and a conspiracy theorist who loves and owns bitcoin so Its definitely true that some of are those things.

Some just want to use better paying method over internet, like me  :)

All are welcome :)

Troof! I love this forum.

I worry a bit that the incredibly strong association between "taking down the financial institutions" and Bitcoin serves as a barrier to adoption. Bitcoin serves people who have an agenda against banks, but it also serves others too who may be driven away by such sentiment.

I believe very few really believe Bitcoin can take down the financial institutions.
I think it is even not possible, you need physical payment system when electricity is down

And the banks aren't in the least scared of bitcoin. They can buy every last bitcoin with out even thinking about.

It truly is a drop in bucket compared to the amount of wealth and power they control...

Not sure I agree. They won't be able to buy "every last bitcoin" if Bitcoin increases greatly in value. Of course nobody can tell you whether or not that will happen.

goverments arent scared, they are already discussing how to tax it. ><

There is not enought money to buy all Bitcoins, many Bitcoins are lost already  :P

Ok, they can't buy the lost bitcoins...lol But the bitcoin market really isn't that big.

http://bitcoinwatch.com/

Right now all of the bitcoins that exist is worth 10,864,643,028 USD

That is a lot of money, but you can't say there isn't a LOT more money on the planet than that.

This is not true, every Bitcoin you buy increase the price. Market cap is useless number, all Bitcoins cant be sold at current market price, only the first Bitcoins you buy...

Listen, I love bitcoin myself... But if the big banks wanted they could crush it easily. They are experts at price manipulation, they would buy a huge amount, then sell / dump it all, drastically lowering the price.

Then they could then buy it all back up again... and repeat. What do you think happens with gold and silver markets?
 

Taxing movements of money? Seems new way to help pay the debt  :)

I dont WANT a payment processing and currency system that isnt safe vs such attacks. I want a currency that proves to be victorious after beeing fought by the very most powerful people in this world, including those who own much fiat. Because only after that, it is worthy to replace any fiat.

I do issue warning aswell, whenever i want to buy an altcoin below the value it actually deserves. Scare away unexperienced people from markets where long-term thinking is needed. Nothing bad about that (except for selfish motives, as in my personal example, of course).

You cant pull another 9/11 for ever ennoyance to any western government. that trick only works as long as it isnt overused, and currently, it is. People in Europa laugh whenever US feds declare something bad or good based on the classic MUH TERRORISM argument.

Again, people who profit from that will even jump in and spread more fear. Just to make their thing clients/websites/apps and remote wallets look nicer.

Okay, im in. They will make me rich. If they crash it, speculating investors will balance it out soon enough and back to business as usual.

yes. transaction speed and low fees are just TOO GOOD for any bank to seriously expects customers to wait weeks ust because the target is in based russia.

YESS. And as better means of making cryptocurrencies understandable for everyone (like MegaCoin, look at their fully translated website) evolve, things will more and more get normal and people will get used to it. And eventually Cryptos will just be like fiat and debit cards, and people will learn how to pay with a third mean with other individual advantages and disadvantages.

You own and use toilet paper as well. Like all conspiracy theorists i guess. That doesn't mean that there is a conspiracy around it...

Bitcoin can be used in any way somebody sees fit. Sure it could theoretically take down the banks and/or take power away from them, or it can work alongside them. I'll bet it will work alongside them for many years, but the benefits of Bitcoin will hopefully slowly cripple the corrupt banking institutions and prove to the mainstream which is better. Hopefully Bitcoin wont become corrupted or manipulated and abused too, but only the future will tell us on that front.

You can also pay with physical Bitcoins. If electricity goes down, then so will the fiat credit systems.

With physical Bitcoins you have to trust the manufacturer. I would trust government much more than manufacturer (one person)

Not entirely. With coins, sure, but with Paper Wallets you could just scan the buyers paper wallet and take the funds on your phone or computer.