Bitcoin Forum

http://www.coindesk.com/china-bans-payment-companies-working-bitcoin-exchanges-sources-claim/

Bitcoin won't be going anywhere if we don't have international support. May I remind you that most of us that expect bitcoin to be successful
rely on nations welcoming it in the first place.

We rely on the people of nations welcoming it (once they understand it).  We expect some hostility from TPTB.  

The Chinese will just get their coins some other way. It's not exactly difficult to buy coins outside of exchanges.

If this is true there won't be many ways to get bitcoins. Basically just cash in person. Sure, you can take bank transfers, but that will be illegal.

How can we spin this into being a good thing?

Sources close to China’s Central Bank today reported that the institution has banned third-party payment companies from doing business with bitcoin exchanges.

Strengthening regulation of Bitcoin websites

According to the Telecommunications Act and the Regulation on Internet Information Service, websites that provide Bitcoin services like registration, trading etc should register with the telecommunications regulation authorities.

The telecommunications regulation authorities, following the determinations and punishment opinions of the relevant management authorities, should close down illegal Bitcoin sites according to law.

What can you buy with bitcoins? Drugs, and maybe a gun, that's about it.

LOL, really!! You can buy a lot more than just drugs and guns with Bitcoin! I use Gyft every weekend to spend my Bitcoins, and there is plenty of other places/ways to spend Bitcoin!

LOL, really!! You can buy a lot more than just drugs and guns with Bitcoin! I use Gyft every weekend to spend my Bitcoins, and there is plenty of other places/ways to spend Bitcoin!

Don't feed the troll. Silk Road is gone. You can't even buy guns and drugs with it anymore.

You can buy fake rubbery vaginas: http://www.cryptosextoys.com/fleshlights/fleshlight-girls


Silk Road 2.0 has been up and running for over a month.

LOL, really!! You can buy a lot more than just drugs and guns with Bitcoin! I use Gyft every weekend to spend my Bitcoins, and there is plenty of other places/ways to spend Bitcoin!

...microblogging certification Users "Li Wenbo" posted microblogging, has been deleted thereafter, another QQ members of the central bank had posted a fake PS notice as follows: QQ group members who posted sham notice Xiaobian deliberately opened the central bank "to pay liquidated Division "page ( http://www.pbc.gov.cn/publish/zhifujiesuansi/394/index.html ), did not this news. Rumor has no visible acting in order to do their utmost. Because in all kinds of superposition... Xiao Bian bit era you please customers keep their eyes open, be careful to avoid cross-check again and causing huge losses to be deceived by similar rumors

Well, there was a positive article out too about the Swiss gov. being supportive of BTC and treating it just like any other foreign currency.  I think this is what we really want, BTC to be considered a currency instead of like a security/good, like the stock market or gold, right?

right, but you can already buy this kind of goods with your credit card. So what's the point in converting your money to bitcoins, paying fees to the exchange places, to buy the same thing you could already buy with your credit card?

What can you buy with bitcoins? Drugs, and maybe a gun, that's about it.

Who is sources?  Sources may be the most powerful bitcoin manipulator of all.

Can anyone translate Chinese? There is an article on the BTC38 site and I think the gist of it is that these rumors may be fake.

http://www.btc38.com/btc/btc_market/476.html

Courtesy of google translate -

I see no problem with that, who cares if Chinese can't buy Bitcoins, the price will go down, we'll buy more coins and they'll be late to the party. What do you expect from a dictatorial government anyway?

This looks like bullshit.

Second time in a couple weeks someone has posted some bullshit bearish sentiment about China here and started a sell-off.

Thanks for the cheap coins assholes!

today it's China, but tomorrow another big country could do the same. Who knows really? Nobody can be sure this will not happen. So the future is really uncertain.

Truth is bitcoin has grown into a bubble last weeks, and now the bubble is blasting. I wouldn't be surprised if it went down to 200/300 dollars and stayed there for a few month or even years. Just  like the Internet companies in the early 2000's. What can you buy with bitcoins? Drugs, and maybe a gun, that's about it.

From what I can glean from a very bad google translate Bitcoin and the exchanges aren't being banned.

It is the third party payment comapnies - in other words if you withdrawing bitcoin from an exchange account it has to go into your bank account directly.

Though I might be wrong because of the wording about the spring festival - but in my unqualified opinion the chinese are still in Bitcoin quite legally as long as they don't use any stop gaps between the exchange and their bank...

"Dear BTC China valued customer: To stabilize the recent turbulent Bitcoin market and minimize potential market manipulation, BTC China will end the 0% trading fee promotion, effective immediately, and revert to the 0.3% trading fee. We deeply apologize for the sudden change. BTC China, December 16, 2013"

The reintroduction of a fee at short notice seems to indicate that this is true.

BTC took on funding from investors recently and cut the fee to zero, except for a withdrawal fee. Reintroducing the fee at short notice and tied to this possible move by the regulators, plus the fall in BTC value, increase in transactions - sounds like bad news?

No kidding.  China's stance against bitcoin has just moved from 'firm' to 'outrageous'.  This is going to have a serious effect for a few months.  But who cares?  Can't stop bitcoin with these stupid laws.  You'll just disadvantage your country's economy.  Bitcoin is coming whether they like it or not.  The rest of the world will carry on without china for a while.  I didn't like the dominate position they were working themselves into last month anyway.  I for one am glad they put that fire out.

Next week I am going to buy some bitcoin on heavy discount.  All those Chinese who paid $1,200 are going to be taking $400 from me.  By March, we'll all be right back up to $1,000!!!  What a steal.  

How can you move bitcoins into a bank account?

you trade directly with other guys via an exchange, like at bitcoin.de (german "exchange") , that means, the exchange just connects you and an other guy.

How can you move bitcoins into a bank account?

"Dear BTC China valued customer: To stabilize the recent turbulent Bitcoin market and minimize potential market manipulation, BTC China will end the 0% trading fee promotion, effective immediately, and revert to the 0.3% trading fee. We deeply apologize for the sudden change. BTC China, December 16, 2013"

The reintroduction of a fee at short notice seems to indicate that this is true.

BTC took on funding from investors recently and cut the fee to zero, except for a withdrawal fee. Reintroducing the fee at short notice and tied to this possible move by the regulators, plus the fall in BTC value, increase in transactions - sounds like bad news?

How can we spin this into being a good thing?

How can we spin this into being a good thing?

Bingo!

Good to see you all are starting to understand finally.


Yes and they will collect capital gains and/or VAT taxes on Bitcoin appreciation as an investment even if you are trying to use it as a currency (medium-of-exchange), thus it can not be a currency (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=351712.msg3979502#msg3979502).

But developers of altcoins will rise to the opportunity and create truly anonymous coins. Anoncoin isn't it. Bitcoin isn't it. I will soon publish a whitepaper to explain why.

In short, you need to understand that Chaum mix-nets (e.g. Tor) are vulnerable to timing attacks, and even honeypotting given only 3 hops. They NSA and spy agencies in each country are likely still able to track your identity much of the time. And VPNs are likely all controlled/backdoored/hacked/rooted by the NSA. And exchanging through mixers and altcoins does not obscure your IP address no matter how many times you do it. Also even across these proxies, your identity is tracked in other ways such as browser plugins trojans, cookies, patterns of internet uses such as favored search terms, facbook et al tracking the way you type (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=363852.msg3889591#msg3889591), etc..

Even if you are one of the lucky few who manages to keep your anonymity assured by careful mix of the above methods, the point is the majority will not. And thus it is very simple for the government to make your anonymous coins practically unspendable and useless (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=360763.msg3872909#msg3872909). The government simply sends a tax bill and put criminal liability for all activity on a coin since mining until present, until those non-anonymous coins holders (or former holders) can provide the identity of whom they bought from and sold to.

Thus all users will become afraid and only accept coins and sell coins from those who provide their complete identity. Thus only a coin with widespread assured anonymity would be able to become a currency and remain immune to government control.

So clearly you can see that you never will have anonymity with Bitcoin nor any current altcoins. Thus Bitcoin and the current altcoins can never be currencies (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=351712.msg3979502#msg3979502) (unless the governments take them over somehow and make them legal tender), and the government will essentially control them.

Note one means anonymity I proposed thus far are a new way to do physical crypto-coins (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=310859.msg3972962#msg3972962).

First Financial is part of the new Center for Financial Research Institute of First Financial, founded in October 2012 in Beijing, working on financial reform and innovation, the rise and development of emerging financial sector. Internet banking is one of the main directions of research, but also the "Internet banking book" The main positioning. In this area, the new Center for Financial Research CBN will be launched P2P, all chips, mobile payments research reports, bitcoins, financial vertical search, online communities finance, asset online trading, as well as to explore the Internet and other aspects of financial regulation

It is scientific and logical to sum up experiences, find problems and develop proper regulatory measures when an industry has grown to an economy of a certain scale

"On November to December this year, we will release five new topics, the first one is the theory and practice of Internet financial framework, and the second is to raise the public's White Paper, the data also do a final check. The third is Bitcoin - open trials currency."

Guangzhou Police advise how to prevent the use of "Bitcoin" The new fraud --- http://www.gdga.gov.cn/jwzx/gdjx/gzsj/201312/t20131217_693891.html
Jiangsu Public Security Police Tips Wary of using the "Bitcoin" for fraud http://www.jsga.gov.cn/www/jsga/2010/jfts-mb_a391311259399.htm
Ningbo public security network Wary of using the "Bitcoin" new scams http://www.gongan.ningbo.gov.cn/jwpd/dtxx.jsp?aid=59072
Wary of using the "Bitcoin" for fraud Taizhou City Public Security Bureau

Today, the Central Bank provided there is no doubt that this crazy splashed with cold water, as a trading platform, OKCoin think this madness will end up ruining the industry and 0% fee significantly reduces transaction costs, facilitates such speculation.

OKCoin want to tie in with the Central Bank, bitcoin healthier development, charging very low fees, high cost of speculation, let coins down to reasonable. We will charge fees to all coins and the community, and support the research and development of safer bitcoin wallet.

We love beautiful mathematical design bitcoin, bitcoins lofty ideals of faith, care of this social experiment is our bounden duty"

insiders speculate that the central bank has asked banks and CUP (China UnionPay) bitcoin trading **platform shall provide prepaid services**, so that led to a number of third-party trading platform stop recharging services

It's incredible how a rumour or good/bad news can affect the price of currencies (and also stocks & shares etc). It's really quite alarming too, especially when the information can turn out to be false or inaccurate.

It's incredible how a rumour or good/bad news can affect the price of currencies (and also stocks & shares etc). It's really quite alarming too, especially when the information can turn out to be false or inaccurate.

Actually, it's not incredible at all, it's perfectly reasonable. Most people don't understand Bitcoin. They buy some because it has been going up in price, but they're still extremely jittery about it. Markets are fickle by nature, but in the case of Bitcoin that's twice so, and in the case of Bitcoin in a new market (China, India) where people truly don't understand it, it's thrice so.

Give it time, China has to go through its own equivalent of the MtGox crash of 2011 before they come to realise Bitcoin is a lot more than a price on a ticker tape.

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but I don't feel this is THAT big of a deal. On exchanges like btcchina you have the option of making payment with a chinese bank account or a 3rd party payment provider like Tenpay. I might be wrong but I believe using your bank account was the cheaper option anyways,  and most Chinese people should already have a bank account IMO.  Is it positive news, no it's not. Does it stop people from buying selling BTC on exchanges though, no it doesn't, they can still use banks to make depoists/withdrawls in RMB.

Just my 2 cents.


It does seem though like China is working hard to make sure people don't/can't use bitcoin as a currency and it's only used as an investment/commidity. From banning companies from providing services in exchange for bitcoin, to banning banks from dealing in it, to now banning payment processors it makes it pretty cut and dry IMO that you aren't going to see a day anytime soon where it's common to go into a store in China and buy something with bitcoin. At least not legally.

Sina Technology
Sina Technology > Industry > Bitcoin : the future of speculative bubbles or financial topic > Text
Bank of interviews with third-party payment bitcoin risk prevention
At 01:13 on December 17 2013 First Financial Daily

Yan Xiangjun

"The central bank regulations third party payment institution shall not provide hosting bitcoin trading site for the trading business ." Yesterday afternoon , the central bank called third-party payment companies meeting revealed the news.

"First Financial Daily" reporters learned exclusively , December 5 issued "on guard against the risk of Bitcoin notice" ( the "Notice " ) Following the central bank again yesterday , " attack" , interviews with more than 10 third-party payment companies relevant person in charge , it may not be explicitly requested to Bitcoin , Wright credits (LTC) and other trading sites offer payment and settlement business.

In less than two weeks time , the central bank even out "two trick" to prevent the risk of Bitcoin , and convey the spirit of the meeting is to be interpreted as " drastic " Many Bitcoin insiders .

Third-party payment " three line"

A large third-party payment company , told reporters that the participants who , yesterday morning, more than 10 third-party payment companies convened by the central bank , in Beijing held a closed-door meeting . Such persons in an interview with this reporter revealed that the meeting , Deputy Director of the settlement payment was chaired by the Secretary golden week the central bank , every company has sent 1 to 2 participants stakeholders .

" Justice Week at the beginning of the meeting made ​​it clear that the meeting was not convened to discuss whether the companies about Bitcoin -related businesses can conduct , but to convey the attitude of senior central bank , which may not be the first third-party payment companies to bitcoin , Wright currency and other trading sites provide payment and settlement services ; Secondly, for payment institutions business cooperation has occurred should be lifted , the stock of money at the latest to complete the withdrawal before the Spring Festival , the new payment services may not occur ; third , strict implementation of the December 5 the central bank issued a " notice " . " these third-party payment companies told this reporter.

According to newspaper reporter to get a third-party payment companies participants recorded meeting minutes , the meeting , in addition to domestic regulations do not allow third-party payment agencies engaged in related businesses bitcoins , the central bank will also be after studying the relevant requirements for access in the territory of Bitcoin -related businesses overseas payment mechanism.

After Golden Week convey relevant spiritual , individual companies have made ​​the payment that he will strictly enforce the above three requirements. But it is worth noting that one of the world 's most active trading site BTCC ( bitcoin China ) as well as Bitcoin , Wright currency trading site OKCOIN have third-party payment agencies from the original co- pay through fiscal replaced by another third-party payment companies , meanwhile, have users complained that two sites are currently only using money paid through withdrawals , but not through its recharge.

"Alipay has not any bitcoin trading site had business cooperation, " Alipay stakeholders in an interview with this reporter , said , "If investors find recharge channels Alipay , you need to be alert to whether the other individual accounts, if really is a personal account, the investor must be aware of the risks . "

There Bitcoin Insiders believe that the contents of the central bank from yesterday's meeting , the central bank for risk prevention efforts may result in a larger bitcoin , but he also expressed puzzled , because this might make the original line open and transparent Bitcoin trading platform is transferred to the ground, the difficulty of monitoring will also rise.

Bitcoin bleak future in China ?

" Come after " notice " is issued, we are in this thing to worry about third-party payment will not do it , did not think of a prophecy ." Bitcoin transaction , a person in charge after hearing the news of the newspaper Reporter said.

After the "notice" issued by the vast majority of people in the industry believe that the " caliber looser " or even " a regulatory innovation " is different , the spirit of the meeting of the central bank to bitcoin industry obviously caused some blow. Many industry insiders have said that bitcoin future development of the situation in China worrying , will choose different levels of " escape" , or transferred to offshore trading platform Bitcoin transactions.

Earlier, the central bank's " notice" had explicitly requested at this stage of financial institutions and payment institutions shall not conduct business associated with bitcoins are not allowed to bitcoin for a product or service pricing , may not be sold or traded as a central counterparty bitcoin not covered with Bitcoin -related insurance business or insurance bitcoins into range. After the "notice" is issued, although Bitcoin market has movement fell short , but soon that recover "lost ."

Yesterday 's meeting will have much impact on prices bitcoins is still unknown, but as of press time newspaper reporter , BTCC Bitcoin price has fallen from yesterday's highest 5335 yuan to 4600 yuan , a decrease of 15%.

If this is true there won't be many ways to get bitcoins. Basically just cash in person. Sure, you can take bank transfers, but that will be illegal.

Actually, it's not incredible at all, it's perfectly reasonable. Most people don't understand Bitcoin. They buy some because it has been going up in price, but they're still extremely jittery about it. Markets are fickle by nature, but in the case of Bitcoin that's twice so, and in the case of Bitcoin in a new market (China, India) where people truly don't understand it, it's thrice so.

The human psychology of going with the flow and following the masses is the problem here. Unfortunately it's impossible to persuade them to calm down and take profit. To understand it just watch the black friday mob. If they just stood in line and entered one by one there would be no injuries and they'd get in faster, instead they try to go all at once blocking the doors and fighting the staff.

im surprised to see bitcoin still at 600 thought it would go much lower !! like 250s

4X + as many coins going into China compared to USA right now. http://fiatleak.com/ (http://fiatleak.com/)
Absolutely amazing to watch this for a while. Looks like money is once again flowing into China BIG.

What can you buy with bitcoins? Drugs, and maybe a gun, that's about it.

No kidding.  China's stance against bitcoin has just moved from 'firm' to 'outrageous'.  This is going to have a serious effect for a few months.  But who cares?  Can't stop bitcoin with these stupid laws.  You'll just disadvantage your country's economy.  Bitcoin is coming whether they like it or not.  The rest of the world will carry on without china for a while.  I didn't like the dominate position they were working themselves into last month anyway.  I for one am glad they put that fire out.

Next week I am going to buy some bitcoin on heavy discount.  All those Chinese who paid $1,200 are going to be taking $400 from me.  By March, we'll all be right back up to $1,000!!!  What a steal.