Bitcoin Forum

Seems it was pretty easy for the banks to kill BTC.

All the tough talk from crypto meant nothing in the end.  The banks simply said stop and btc stopped lol

That's what happens when you have a decentralised currency that relies on totally centralised exchanges and fiat input/outputs.

Wait till US banks and UK banks change their minds. Crypto will be worth nothing.  

Bringing out a zillion different shitclones per day will not help.

P2P exchanges and something like local BTC on steriods is required in the next few weeks or you can kiss goodbye to crypto forever.

Crypto has not evolved  as it should have, the coin designs have perhaps evolved slightly but the idea of crypto has stood still since bitcoin inception.

We need ideas regarding how to make BTC and ALTS far more stable and therefore a lot less vulnerable.

We need ideas here, don't just sit there mining your DOGE and BILLION coins, cos they will be worth NOTHING when the next big countries banks say no fiat in/out of any exchanges.

Start thinking about this and voicing some ideas.

BTC has seen much bigger falls before, remember the $250 -> $50 drop?, or the $30 -> $1 drop?

There's more belief in bitcoin now than there was back then and the price reflects it.

There's also no time frame in which btc has to get things right, nor does bitcoin have to be the best and last crypto currency.

Of course a lot of people including myself have lost money in the short term, but that's a separate issue to the success of cryptos in the long run.

cryptohunter, the kind of control banks attempting simply is... it's not possible. If there is one thing the history of evolution has taught us it's that BTC will not be contained. BTC breaks free, it expands to new territories and crashes through barriers, painfully, maybe even dangerously, but, uh... well, there it is.

People will find ways how to get their bitcoins even without bank.

China didn't kill anything, it's the rest of the dumpers who are killing the prices :)

If everyone who isn't Chinese stopped selling right now, the price would go right back up :)

DROP DROP DROP
THEN
PROFIT PROFIT PROFIT

Gonna be watching the market caps over the next week.

Gonna score big on noirbits when they go under a penny

BTC has not been cut off from banks and fiat before. Just china saying no fiat into btc exchanges and not fiat out after jan has smashed BTC and all alts into free fall.
Wait until the other countries decide the same thing. It will be bye bye to all crypto.  

Crypto is nothing without fiat, if there are no p2p exchanges and no mechanism to feed them fiat it's going to be over for BTC and alts.  China was a bitch slap in the face , US and Europe say the same that will be a piledriver into the concrete.

Crypto is nothing right now without fiat. It can pretend to be something more robust and worthwhile yet here is the proof that that is currently all just bullshit. The banks decide to say no, you can kiss crypto both btc and alts goodbye.

The people with crypto wealth here best get their asses in gear and start pushing for total decentralisation of the mechanisms that crypto relies on or it's over.

All this bitcoin is untouchable is laughable right now, crypto on the whole is actually a joke right now in terms of stability it is so vulnerable on so many levels.

There is simply no point having decentralised currency that fully relies on a centralised mechanism, it is  pointless.

they can just withdraw and buy btc face to face, problem solved

It really seems like big dump before 'to the moon'. All short-time investors and panicking people will dump their coins in several days. Christmas dump expectations, China news, 'hacker' news - let's see 1BTC=$100 again, and then... let's see.

But yes, I agree with cryptohunter that we need decentralised exchanges. Really, no way to go without them.

As was pointed out above, this isn't the first time that btc has seen a big sell off and won't be the last.  Don't blow things out of proportion.

lol OP.

You do realise everything you said re the banks is the EXACT reason why crypto currency exists?

If the banks LIKED the idea of working with finances in this way then it would ALREADY exist.

The whole point of this community is not nescersarily to be accepted by the wider, more mainstream financial institutions but to provide people an alternate way of trading. The more resistance, the better for the market. You would be naive to think that because the news from China has reported some sort of regulation / stop on trading that people are actually going to _STOP_ trading. BTC has value, as do other cryptos, they will be traded, they will increase and they will flourish.

If 'CRYPTO' relied on being accepted by financial institutions, remind me what the point of it existing is?

we don't need decentralised exchange, we need to buy things with btc directly

You are looking at crypto solely as a means to increase the amount of fiat in your account, the original point of decentralised currencies is to move away from centralised banking systems and establish a global, secure, open, transactional currency(s) free of transaction fees, border controls, political tampering and the present day issues associated with fiat/credit etc.


Yes there are hundreds of alt-coins, of which only a few will survive in the long run however they address (amongst many other things) one of the biggest issues with BTC currently with regards to transaction times. No technology, company or product can survive long term without innovation and at the moment innovation is being achieved through 'natural selection' from the development of a large number of alts.

It's good to be able to trade crypto for fiat to make a quick buck - but that's not at all what crypto is/was and should be about.

FR

It's down 4% in the last month!
The fair value lies somewhere for north of the current price, China can do what it wants, the crypto world will go on without them

Of course, but it is not fast process. So such exchanges can be one of the steps

ASIC Miners kill BTC. They produced BTC in a much cheaper way. Now they sell it off.

Crypto currencies have its pros & also fair share of cons. Market fluctuations is all part of the whole game. What we need to do now, is to think how to get the 'right' balance between the different trade-offs so that we can be in the best situation possible. Bitcoin is just the start, & we are nowhere near the end. Actually, this issue have been on my mind for quite some time, since I got into the community, some 2 months back. It is not just the decentralized exchange issue, the entire crypto currency eco-system need to be fixed.

Regards.

When the west follows suit it will be much harder to go on.

Crypto is not ready for the coming storm. Time to start preparations.

A p2p exchange sounds rather difficult to implement to a standard people would trust it, i guess it will take some time. The exchanges are probably more important for alts than for BTC right now.

From what I see and what I have learned in the past, taking the $30 to $1 drop and $250 to $50 drop and now we see $1200 to $400something drop, It always comes out stronger. From the $30 to $1 it went to $250, from $250 to $50 it went up to $1200. What we see now is bitcoin wanting to break $2000.  Lets just wait for Wall street to come in, heavy investors and we are back.  I read an article where some financial guy was saying that in mid 2014's we will see bitcoin at $10. That is just not an option and it could never happen. The reason I think so is simply because people are proud. The people here, the hard workers that bring the coins forward and thus increasing the value are the community.  We are the ones that will decide the price in the end, we are the ones who have spent endless of hours trying to improve, trying to help it go forward.  I say that the value will increase when Wall Street enters the market, and it will not be in a bad way, but we have to remember to stick around, and all of us should just hold hold and hold out some more.  We are bitcoin. Do not forget why you started out here, why you were excited about setting up mining rigs and just talking about the future, it is till there, and it is still bright. We just have to make sure and show the govt' and banks that we do not give up easily. Who is with me on this? Guys? I know that bitcoin is backed by the best of people, the creative thinkers and the market experts. Lets do this, nothing is more fun than a good old challenge!

You are correct, but it still took 2 years from 10 do 266, and it took half a year from 266 to 1200+.

Well it's not going to happen in Germany or Switzerland.  I don't know which countries have already made legislations, but there are a few.  Bitcoin will not be banned, maybe in America, but not everywhere.

Oh man, someone has to make ShitCoins, that only have value when the Bitcoin drops...

That is okay, considering the % increase I can gladly wait until the end of next year, and I am sure that we can break $2000 by christmas 2014, if not sooner.All we need is to fix some things and to not give up.

What right does a bank have to deny me access to exchanges? Since theres nothing illegal happening in my pov they dont have the rights to ban it in countries in europe or us.
China is different in the way that they are still trying to control the people, btc was a loss in control for them. I dont see that happening to the eu/us anytime soon unless they declare it being something illegal.

That is right, for example in Germany: BTC exchanges are not illegal if you pay flat rate withholding tax. Bitcoin.de has a BAFIN (Federal Financial Supervisory Authority) License.

funny how everyone bases btc success on what it is vs USD ...so sad

btc's  been a joke and useless as a currency ever since it went above $USD5

as for those trading who lose out...well you play with fire expect sometimes to get.....well


personally as a trading token I'm havin fun (though I don't trade it against fiat).

We can all hope that china's actions do not spread. However crypto will always be vulnerable until it is no longer vulnerable.

Even this thread turns into a i hope the west or i know the west will not follow suit ......nobody knows

Let's ask ourselves why not decentralise the entire thing and admit crypto will always be vulnerable until this happens?? there is no good reason not to decentralise the entire thing is there??

Sure we can carry on as we are now , but we need a backup solution ready... of that there can be no real doubt.

It's tricky.

In china the government has more control over banking and they are able to tell the banks what to do.

In the U.S. the government has less ability (and less motivation) to ban cryptos, but the banks may do it anyway to attempt to preserve their dominance within financial systems.

But I think that while these are big issues now, in the long run cryptos will either succeed or fail purely based on their merits. At the end of the day cryptos are built upon the internet and the internet routes around censorship (in all its forms).

Satoshi will resurrect and save the day! :D

A far more sophisticated version of local bitcoin/altcoin  coupled with decentralised exchanges = far less vulnerable - let's get on with it.

I wonder if paper wallets could have more meaning in BTC (or other coins) circulation now?

Some sort of third-party interface that allows for more fluid transfer between fiat and crypto currencies will be needed at some point to really get things moving, a bit similar to the system banks use to lock in an exchange rate and amount when someone buys something from a different country (i.e. someone from Europe buying from the US via their credit card).

Anyway, hopefully this will help to kill off some of the useless clones going about, either through complete abandonment or by being subsumed through merged mining.

I do completely agree with your point about decentralization, I probably should have stated that earlier :)

Killed? When I bought in early October, it was $130. It then went up to 1280. It has now crashed to $455 and has gone back up to about $550 now.

If I tell any investor that I got 400% out of an investment in 2 months' time, they'd listen.


You cannot learn the future by looking at the past.



Wall Street is already in the market. You can bet that many investment banks and companies that are anywhere near serious have a pile of BTC laying around.



Hmmm. There's a few creative thinkers in this community, but the ratio is not significantly higher than in any other community. And for the market experts? Hardly. We created the market, but that doesn't mean we're the best in playing the market. Just like companies are frequently surprised by what happens to their stock: they create the market but are not the experts.

Not bashing BTC or altcoins here, I have my own little mining rig. And I also expect coins in general to go up (otherwise I wouldn't be here). But we need a reality check. Other markets (stock, materials, ...) also have their excesses and their swings, but the swings are peanuts compared to what is happening here. There's one good reason for it: there is no underlying value in any coin. If you compare raw materials to companies to futures to *coins, the tendency is to have less connection to underlying value and more volatility on the market. So, we can try and stabilise the whole market by building a closer link to underlying value. This is what coins like CureCoin and AltCoin are trying to achieve. Some may view this as heresy, as it's a move back to meatspace, whereas coins were meant to be cyberspace only. The only other option is to enjoy the ride with an open mind. Remember: what goes up must come down again. So, even if BTC were to hit $2000 at one point, you can be certain it will dive below $1000 again after that and half the forum will claim ragnarok is near. Either we change what we are doing, or we have to live with instability and emotional outcries every so often.

Agree with the majority of what you say, however there can be no argument really that having everything decentralised will remove a lot of the fears and worries surrounding crypto.  This move is not based on emotion only. It is a major player being (even if its temporary) taken out of the game. This would not have happened if everything was decentralised. I do think they will now be trading on the streets but still more hassle = less people interested.



Local bitcoin actually works rather well , however it could all be improved.

Crypto is an amazing thing, nobody can say otherwise, it needs a environment from which is can operate that is as amazing as itself. On it's own it will not thrive as it should.


This was a friendly slap by chinas standards, let's hope we are more decentralised by the time they and perhaps others decide it's time for a substantial thrashing. In 4 years though there has been little to zero innovation with anything other than coin design.

this.

It is better to use BTC in internet environment not in real life (at least for start). It's virtual currency, governments can accept it for virtual world.

If BTC wants to conquer FIAT currency, governments would take it down immediately.

Even if it makes a full recovery this time. That is not the point. Yeah but waves are great for day trading if you get it correct without doubt,

maybe china killed the market price for coins in the moment, but certainly not cryptocurrencies, nobody will ever be able to do that. there was a gold rush last month, now it's over. might bother the guys who thought they would get rich quick, but to the real cryptoenthusiasts it doesn't matter. besides, next boom will come...

but i agree we need better, safer, trusted, decentralized, user friendly, easy to use tools to mine, trade, exchange, escrow, buy and sell. kind of the ubuntu of cryptos (without the spyware part ;) )

because when one day fiat really crashes, the crypto with most trust, biggest purchasing power and range of goods, best solution for big and small businesses and user friendliest all-in-one-wallet-app will be golden.

Fiat does not need to crash, both can exist together.

Decentralise the entire crypto/crypto and crypto/fiat mechanism and it takes away the much of the fear and worries from the market.

BTC LTC and the Alts will become investment vehicles where liquidity is not as important before they are used as currencies. Consequently exchanges etc. are not as important as one would assume. You just need some ability to trade your coins for fiat, you don't need some super efficient forex.

I agree with you, this will take some time though especially for the young alts. Actually i think a decentralised community meeting point is probably the largest thing lacking right now. This forum is awesome but they need a back up plan that we are made aware of now.

Coins to fiat would have to be through a kind of local bitcoin kind of scenario, i guess there is no other way.