Bitcoin Forum

How about instead of people creating useless copies of the bitcoin currency, such as l0coin, people take a look at how bitcoin can be improved. There may not be much room for bitcoin 2.0, but any future p2p currency will have to significantly improve on bitcoin.

Here is one such idea - just an example. How do you recover lost bitcoins to prevent the eventual death of bitcoin in a generation or two? What about creating a coin system where coins that have sat inactive for over a year become mine-able again. That way, if someone stops moving their bitcoins around annually, they lose them. This would not only keep the currency alive after all the original players have died, but will encourage people to spend the coins everytime they are "renewed".

Don't just start creating bitcoin clones that are essentially scams doomed to fail.


 

There's no single reason i0coin would be a scam. Elaborate. No, I don't have significant amount of i0coins myself.

ahh you mean like ixcoin which had only one number changed in the code?
where the found mined a half a million coins for himself?

or are you talking iocoin which was invented to show the stupidness of ixcoin.. which does solve btc problems like speeds up the transaction confirmations by speeding up the block found time.

that includes an encrypted wallet, which means if a trojan steals your wallet they cant spend the coins.

it also includes address checks to make sure you dont send iocions to a btc addy.. unlike ixcoin which will let you do that.

and it has difficulty growth and drop limits that prevent what is happening with namecoin where everyone waits until the diff drop, and then mines the fuck out of it until the diff shoots up to over 100k before disapearing back to BTC.


How about learn something before you bitch it solves no problems.


ahh so you want to punish savers.. like FIAT MONEY. Also due to the nature of things the more coins that are lost, the value go BTC goes us, causing less and less coins to be lost.

SO i cant save money for a year? seriously? are you nuts? you do realize that part of the reason Bitcoin was invented is that fiat money punishes savers right?



interesting you pick I0coin when ixcoin is much more scammy.. it was poorly made, only one line of code changed, it doesnt try to address a single flaw, and the founded took 500k coins for himself.. but let me guess, you think that is cool right?

It's called competition, if you dont like i0coin or ixcoin dont fucking mine or buy them.

there are people heavy in ixcoin that are pissed off I0coin came out specifically to bring to light the many scammy aspects of it.

The line between fiat or p2p currency and scam is very fine.

Creating the first p2p currency uncertain how it will turn out is bold, visionary, and insane.

Creating bitcoin clone currencies so that you can mine the first hundred-thousand coins is a scam.

"i0coin, it's shit is all retarded."

This is the part which I wanted to be elaborated. There was no-one mining "first hundred-thousand coins" in i0coin. You're probably recalling IXcoin, which as far as I can tell is a scam.

I view i0coin as a simply community project by those who were frustrated by the obvious scam (IXC), but liked the concept of faster maturity etc. Regarding the launch, no coins we're premined and there's even proof about that.

It's a scam pump & dump just like Ixcoin.  You and joulsbeef are little scamcoin cheerleaders apparently.  But if you look at the value of either of the scamcoins, you can see they're TANKING, and I'm glad.  Little BS 5th column projects like this undermine the whole Bitcoin movement as it serves as nothing more than a distraction while adding no significant value to the infrastructure.  Oh wow, encrypted wallet *jerk off hand jesture*

Comments like this undermine the whole Bitcoin movement. You're spreading pure fud with nothing to back up your statements. There's nothing shady with i0coin. If you don't like it, don't use it. But stop spreading lies.

I mean, you're the one who decides which (crypto)currency people does use? Even if something with more advanced features than Bitcoin was developed (encrypted wallet is a REAL improvement for example), of course it can't be used, because your the one saying so. I think it's fair to warn people about scams, but spreading false information, when there's clear proof available that it isn't so... One should be banned for that, you're getting financial gain by exploiting ignorance of the people.

it's not much of a lie though, iocoin, is simply a pump and dump.

And again, where's the proof? As there even were no premined coins, can you tell me who's the operator of that scheme?

Oh sure, an encrypted wallet would be useful for BITCOIN.  But for these pump & dump currencies, there's absolutely no use hoarding them locally as they serve no other purpose than exchange fodder.  These things get mined and go straight to Bitparking.  What other use do these coins serve other than to exchange them for real BTC?

The proof is in the lack of infrastructure.  There's no merchants that accept I0coins/Ixcoins, or any charitable organizations for that matter.  The only purpose of these coins are to exchange them for BTC.

Wow. Let me think a minute... How many merchants there were accepting Bitcoins when it did originate? I mean, there's no-one that did premine huge amount of coins to offer bounties for all that stuff. You do expect people to set all that up in day, for free? That definitely does not make it a pump and dump scheme.

Unlike the ixcoin you worship huh .....

you on old miner seem to tag team everything involved with i0coin and worship the ground ixcoin came out on.
So pray tell what makes ixcoin not a scam? it has a forum? lol.

you do realize that I0coin came out specifically in response to the concerns of the people over ixcoin which was very scammy from the very start.. from their fake japanese developer, to the fact that the founded took 500 thousand coins for himself.. cant see why that doesnt bug you. I0coin on the toehr hand was done in public and the release was public and everyone could mine on day one..

remind me why you worship ixcoins again?




remind me who took bitcoins 3 days after it;s release.. oh yeah, fucking no one. How many places can you trade namecoins for anything but BTC.. yeah not too many.. and how many people do nothing but mine BTC and then sell them for dollars.. yep a shit load.. so your point?  How are their going to be fucking merchants before people even have coin?


NO I0coins PURPOSE if you actually bothered to look, was to highlight the scam nature of ixcoin and it is working.

Do you need me to outline this for you? what kind of proof do you need?
Go buy your proof.
Buy 10BTC worth of iocoins at the iocoin exchange, tomorrow it will be gone.


Through your own premise BTC is also a scheme.

Once again, for the record, decreasing the time between blocks solves nothing. There's nothing magical about that sixth confirmation except that it took about an hour of processing time to reach. If blocks were found every 5 minutes instead of 10 we'd be waiting for 12 confirmations to get the same level of security. Folks who were part of the ixcoin and i0coin launches should ESPECIALLY know this since the various exchanges and pools were all making you wait 50, 100 or at one point 1,000 blocks before coins could be considered "confirmed" because multiple blocks were being found each SECOND. It also illustrates nicely that if the amount of time between blocks were to be set too low, multiple miners would "find" a block at once and the network would argue over which was valid for a bit, which would create constant horizontal branching and orphaned transactions.

With the exception of those few numbers actually changing the shape of the distribution curve, the i*coin forks have actually been a good demonstration of why certain things about bitcoin shouldn't be changed.

For the record, the scam has *nothing* to do with the pre-mined coins. That's a ridiculous red herring. At one time, you could have had ixcoins equal to the total number of pre-mined coins for under $1,000. The ixcoin founders probably spent that much hiding their identity and buying ixcoins to make a market. (In fact, I'm pretty sure I watched them do that.)

The early adopter argument doesn't apply to ixcoins. If you assume ixcoins won't succeed, then it makes no difference who adopted them early -- a large number of worthless coins is only slightly less worthless. If you assume they will succeed, then you can still be an early adopter. You can purchase 100,000 Ixcoins for about $1,000 right now. So if you believe the initial miners or early adopters got an unfairly good deal, you can have that same deal. Not interested? I didn't think so.

The scam is that they add *no* value to bitcoins whatsoever. Ixcoins have no conceivable value beyond speculation. There is no realistic reason anyone would ever adopt them as a currency over bitcoins. Or at least, if there is one, I sure as heck can't figure it out.

That is, the *only* conceivable reason to value Ixcoins is that hope that others will value them more greatly in the future. And the only reason they would ever do that is that someone might value them even more highly further in the future. This progressively increasing value is borderline inconceivable. On the other hand, bitcoins are gradually acquiring value as a medium of exchange, and if a cryptocurrency does become mainstream, the most likely candidate right now is bitcoins. So there's a realistic prospect of real future value anchoring the speculation.

Please correct me if I am wrong. However, it would appear that the wallet encryption code is actually from the Bitcoin source. Perhaps the Bitcoin developers did not feel that it was sufficiently tested and safe for general release. In other words, the encrypted wallet feature was actually implemented by the "bunch of clowns" you were referring to. :)

I find it interesting to see what would happen if the supply of coins was increased, although it's a pretty easy step of logic to conclude that it would flood the market with supply. I0coin could have at least taken the opposite side and tested what would happen if supply was distributed slower or on a different curve instead of a roughly equivalent supply line. Half the number of coins and more blocks per hour is not a innovation.


Yes, the childish-ness of 'see, I can make a clone too because I don't like the way you did it'.


Enabling a client feature that is already in testing by Bitcoin devs is not any bit innovative. The same could have been done by anyone that wanted to test it on the Bitcoin client or Ixcoin client as well.
 

Another trivial client feature and not an innovative change to the bitcoin protocol.


That's something that I didn't know, but lends itself more to a pump and dump clone than an evolution of Bitcoin. It presupposes that people will treat it like namecoin and abandon it when difficulty gets too high. If I0coin network, not the client, actually had features that would make it a serious alternative to Bitcoin it wouldn't need this.


I don't think that word means what you think it means.


and when I looked at i0coin on launch date (which was beyond a disaster, and worse than I predicted) they didn't even have a full suite of clients up, since you like to espouse client features, i0 failed miserably


i0's list is short too, and nowhere near ground breaking


That doesn't bug me for a few reasons. At least half of the coins he mined are up for bounty, and most likely more than half since some bounties can be paid more than once. Since Bitcoin already exists and he is second to market, incentives are needed to foster growth. Early adopters in Bitcoin managed to accomplish this because they had a long slow head start and paid bounties out of belief in the cause, no such thing will happen in any clone. And the biggest part is that Ixcoin was launched in relative silence by a single post on the forums, not with a bunch of advertising and hoopla out of spite.

Neither ixcoin nor i0coin have any features that are innovative technical improvements to the Bitcoin protocol. Both supply curves could have been simulated on a graph and analyzed for effectiveness. They have both muddied the water of crypto currency. Congrats to both.

I like the idea of a degrading crypto currency. However I don't think that there should be any circumstances under which the coins don't degrade. If coins where able to be "refreshed" people would just create some wallets and move them back and forth between them.

If there were a natural logarithmic decay, coupled with asymptotically diminishing returns of mining this might lead to stronger deflationary tendencies though. But this depends on lentgth of the time period where inflation and equilibrium would occur. I think we would soon have enough data from bitcoin to maximize the beneficial effects of such currency.

On another note, why not expand the functionality of bitcoin itself? I'm not talking about actively changing the money generation mechanics but enable bitcoin to include different payloads. The transaction time might not be fast enough for some services though.    

LOL..wow some of you guys. Taken a look at ioucoin exchange rates lately?


And tell me how that's any different to you 'circle-jerking' in a group?

As far as I'm concerned iocoin was dodgy from the very beginning - imo right from the outset no-one could mine. The creators of this scam deferred the release time after starting a countdown on a website that lasted a few days, with the excuse being they 'didnt allow for the time zone difference'..LOL. They then uploaded software that simply didnt exist on release and then they re-released it and the files were there but the software didnt work...lol... Then they had to release it again. Forum members such as 'smoothie' (now unsuprisingly big pushers of iocoin), and others, were screaming 'scam' at the top of their lungs (and probably going blue in the face) because they knew they were missing out on their big slice of the low difficulty pie. Once it did work for some people about an hour or more later (and I use the word 'work' grudgingly), IO Guild put a message up on their website along the lines of 'when you're finished with this ponzi scheme come mine Bitcoins at BT Guild' (I'm not sure how much more obvious you can make it than that..). And then this message was promptly taken down when some of the people mining ioucoins took offence to it. Seriously...the whole thing stinks. Course there's people on the exchange now trying to flog off their coins to anyone silly enough to buy..

As it stands atm, out of curiosity Ive decided to make a closer inspection of this new gimmick and it seems the iocoind.exe is unable to launch the server and have it stay up for more than a few minutes. The only way around this is to close the 'connection' to the server & relaunch it.

Steer clear of this mess...

LOL second reference you gave me. I must have struck a nerve to be mentioned twice in your posts. Thank you! LOL

LOL...no just your one of the main players in/pushers of iocoin AND your easy game :)

So..care to comment on my post about you having a big cry when the launch of iocoin failed as it did? Happy how it all eventually panned out are we? Dump complete?

LMAO

How am I pushing i0coin?

And yes the developer fucked up on the launch as I indicated. Less profit for me lol.

At least this guy gave the ability to start at block zero in mining and not block 2016*3. lol

Easy game? I find it much more fun to watch you make snyde comments about others and i0coin and then not be able to backup your comments when intelligent questions come along. When those questions come flying you are getting back aches dodging.

LOL  ;D

Indeed. So now your saying you don't think there was any funny business going on at launch  ???


LOL...its not my 'job' or place to answer the questions. I didnt create iXcoins as I have stated many many times before in this forum. To continue to claim I created iXcoins, without proof, is like me claiming your Elvis. It just makes you just look silly.. ;)

So then your job is to troll other cryptocurrencies that make an attempt to fix issues that need to be fixed in Fixcoin? Should be interesting to see ixcoin difficulty adjusts on its own over time as the hashrate on the network goes elsewhere.


I'm sorry but at least my signature is not promoting either ixcoin or i0coin as you claim I promote.

LOL

I'm not having the same problems with the client in server mode.  Mine has been running for 38 hours with no hiccups and mined 248 blocks.

No your right. Your simply here for personal gain. You push whatever currency is making $$. If next week iXcoin is all the rage you will promote that. You personally - stand for nothing.

Had a bunch of lockups thanks to the NTP stuff, fixed by adding a timeout.

Baseless personal attack. Or Mr. Oldtroll here has a magic crystal ball showing him the future actions of another person.

Baseless post.

Perhaps your next post could offer something constructive? It seems to be seriously lacking around here of late..

Oh, boy, now you shown how ignorant you are... again!

You really don't know who ArtForz is, do you? lol

A little pearl from ArtForz profile page

And while your at it, read this https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/ArtForz

When you get your own wiki page, you can talk, you baseless moron!

But i suspect that not even on your dear Ixcon wiki you'll have one...

Wiki pages describing you as the biggest ninnyhammer in the bitcoin forum don't count  ::)

HOLYSHIT! Constructive? Have you had a constructive post since people found out who you were?  Starting to get sick of reading about you and smoothie going back and forth.

+1 You would think he had more important things to do given he stands for something (i.e. ixcoins).

Oldminer is plural now? :)

I don't stand for ixcoins, I sit down for them. See my signature. :)

You refer to degradation of value. Inflation takes care of that.

There's definitely something magical about the first confirmation though; accepting coins after one confirmation is a lot riskier than accepting them after two no matter what the interval between blocks is, at least for reasonable intervals. Remember that malicious miners aren't the only threat; it's also possible to exploit natural block chain forks, and single-block orphan blocks are a lot more probable than double ones. (Also: if a big miner or pool redirects their mining power to attempt a double-spend, I think it should be easier to detect statistically with 5-minute blocks and 12 confirmations required.)

That would be an example of an unreasonable interval. Anything less than a minute is likely to cause breakage.

Bitcoin 1.0 can be much better...
Bitcoin 2.0... Can be awesome!

If we talk less and do more...

Best!
Thiago

k skipped most of this feed, but i did notice one thing the author had to say which brought something to mind. say the govt bought 7 mill btc. put em on a flash drive, and then put it in the microwave! what do we do then.

There is a solution to this and also to the problem of forgetting the password for the encrypted wallet. I've written a paper which address this and many other issues with bitcoin and proposes a solution where a gateway layer is built on top of the existing core transaction logging network. The paper is a bit long and detailed (intended for developers), but see the conclusion section for a quick summary of the issues it addresses.

http://arimaa.com/bitcoin/

I think that eventually the first bitcoin variant which includes such a gateway layer will really take off.

The idea presented in this thread is just awesome. Though there are bitcoin clones right now that are worth some good value and given the time bitcoin has stayed, if they do, they may be worth some few hundreds or thousands.