Bitcoin Forum

BTW I love what you are doing for the community and enjoy watching your ability to manage it all.
Quick question how does IBB make money if you offer interest free loans?

I'm sure its been asked and said before, sorry.

we try to make money from 3 ways

1.investing in companies listed on glbse or new companies to be listed on glbse.com and get shares of profit

2. provide loans and get gratuity

3. ads on website

so we cannot rely on regular revenue/income from loans gratuity. we hope our main income would be from our joint venture service and ads on website.

Tips. I'm actually suprised how well that's working out. Of course, it isn't offsetting the fraud, unfortunately.

Given that you are the main provider of loans here, and that I'm the main mod who patrols this forum, I think I can sticky this. If additional loan providers appear, I will have to unsticky this post to be fair. PM me (anybody) when you believe that has become the case.

There needs to be some cut of line for age. You you lend money to a 3 yr. old?
It needs to be somewhere.

Sadly there has been some correlation to age vs. number of defaulted loans.

I think with age comes maturity, there will always be some ahead and behind the curve.

We are all witnessing the ebb and flow of this thread and I think over time certain respectable younger people will become more obvious in the community. Therefore deeming a second look on a case by case basis, if those individuals request.  I cannont speak for Senbonzakura. but I would encourage this thought process with him.

I already gave loans to young people under 16. One couldnt pay back a loan because his friend hacked his computer and took out the btc and later argued and was reluctant to pay back. In the end his father had to help him out and buy btc from mtgox to pay back the loan.

I did say somewhere that honest trustworthy people with say only 50 posts or 100 posts will not be able to get loans(sadly) due to(scammers) these conditions above. But previous customers are ok and dont have to follow these conditions.

Trust me i want to give loans to a 16 year old or even a 13 year old. The problem is sometimes they may not have the means to pay back, on this forum there are many scammers who are 12 and 13 -16 years old.

If you are a young person and still want a loan (for emergencies or something), you can pm me all your info telephone/name/address/id's and I could probably loan 1 or 2 btc.

Over 18 is to scare away the scammers , that said i am willing to lower it to 16, i shall do now.

It may be unfair, yes. But many many business's in this genre have these similar rules in effect.

I find it unfair that I pay more in car insurance being a male. This is based on the actions if others in my group.

I appreciate your response, and I'm overjoyed that you decided to lower the age limit. Now fewer people are going to be discriminated against. :) It is unfortunate that you have experienced a greater default rate among those under 18. However, I am unconvinced that age can be used to effectively determine how likely a client is to default when compared to something like number of posts or successful trades with other members. It is unnecessary to restrict loans to those over a certain age, especially when there are plenty of more effective methods available and you are putting in the time to gauge the morality of the individual anyway.


The first thing that came to my mind when I read the conditions in the first post was car insurance, too! Yes, it is definitely unfair that males pay more in car insurance than females, just like it is unfair that younger drivers pay more than older drivers. I'm glad that you can see the injustice. Why propagate the wrongdoing in your business?

Its just numbers.. it might not seem fair for companies to do that, but if they didnt, Im sure these companies would have even more ridiculous costs associated with them..

I think Senbonzakura is a pretty understanding person, and will remain flexible.

But the majority of the rules are for newcomers..

And like many things, Trust is earned, there must be some basic requirements for Senbonzakura to protect the FREE service offered here..

Right. I agree with what you said.
As I mentioned, there will always be a more direct route to take than age. Worried about newbies? Require that the borrower has been a member here for a while. Concerned about trust? Make sure that the borrower has made several successful trades with other respected members of the community.

I think 16 is about right, at that age you should be mature enough to understand the resposability of asking for money from a stranger..

I'm glad to hear that you may be willing to make exceptions. Unfortunately, that does not change the fact that it is unfair to restrict all persons in a immutable group based on the actions of others in that group. There should be no extra hoops to jump through. A person cannot choose their age; it is not a good measure of their reliability.

I would much rather loan an older, more mature person my hard earned dollars/bitcoins than loan them to a 16 year old who's most likely got no reason to even need a 5 btc or so loan. What does a 16 year old buy with $50, and even more important, can I be sure that they even have a job to pay me back? Age has everything to do with responsibility when you're talking about a general population, so I do agree to setting a limit to the age required. Though some 16 year-olds may be responsible enough to handle someone elses cash, most can't. Hell, most can't even handle their own.

The thing is, should somebody underage default on their loan and not lie about their age, you can't threaten them with legal action. I know you don't even bother with trying to pursue legal action (at least currently), but that's a strong reason to keep honest people honest. If a kid realizes at the last minute that he can't pay you back, even though he meant to, there's little you can do to encourage him to figure something else out.

That is extremely reasonable. If this were the case, then the blame could be passed on to the lawmakers. However, I know of no jurisdiction in which stealing only becomes illegal past a certain age. Do you know of any?

I don't think it would be enforceble even then. Maybe against their parents but that's it.

Problem really is these amounts are so small they need to be in small claims court.
I don't picture anyone spending $300 on a plane ticket to file a small claim of $50.

That's why I brought up selling debts. Then people can buy a claim that is local an sue in the name of the original party.
It's called assignment of a chose in action.

For instance, IBB makes a loan to someone in Boston for 10BTC.
Te person defaults.
I buy the claim at a discount and sue them in my local court.
IBB has limited it's loss and I make a profit collecting.

It will also lower the default rate when people know there wages will be garnished.
Right now scammers are relying on lack of legal recourse do to the non-local nature of the transactions.

The lack of recourse has nothing to do with the fact that the object bargained for is Bitcoin. It's access to the courts that is the problem.

It would be very hard to secure loans via the Internet. Especially the way you're doing it. No offense, I just hate seeing good Bitcoins go to scammers who don't give a damn about this community or Bitcoins in general. You are sort of facilitating bad behavior by literally giving away free money to strangers. Money that isn't even yours (you got most of it from GLBSE) therefore you see no true value in it, other than people saying it's worth "this". I like your idea for Interest free loans, but whats the point of your bank existing in the first place? How do YOU make money? All of it sounds super fishy, and I really don't like where this is going, even if you really are the one loosing money. I say please change your practices and make it look like you're at-least trying to turn this into a legitimate business, otherwise it looks like a poorly planned HYIP...

yes, if you follow the IBB thread in project development section you would see how we make money.

IBB is a bitcoin business, doing business 'pseudonymously' as explodicle said.

we are not registered anywhere.

"All of it sounds super fishy, and I really don't like where this is going"

it doesnt sound fishy to my investors, if it was fishy then they would have sold all their shares while share prices are up.

like i said, even if we have full details  name/address etc.. that is no guarantee they will pay back the loan.

out of around 25 loans IBB provided, only around 3 have not repaid, so most have repaid.

Everything you see in IBB, logos, banners, joint venture bitcoin businesses listed on glbse, all done through forum , to help bitcoin business in forum.

So even if we dont make that much money, we are helping people.

{approx 4 btc will be paid in dividends soon}

I've just realized somthing; wouldn't selling debt allow scammers to get loans and then buy their own debt and keep the difference?

While I do commend you, IBB, for the wonderful service that you provide to so many members of this community, I must express my dissatisfaction with one qualification. I think it is unfair to base your lending decision on age. Not only is the client's age nearly impossible to verify, but it is irrelevant. I request that you rescind all qualifications regarding age. The ageist policy contributes to the bigotry against those under 18. Your other qualifications are all sensible, and can be related to the likelihood that the client will repay their debts. However, your current rules are prejudiced and based on stereotypes that need to be abolished from society. It is unfortunate that your organization is assisting in the spread of these wrong, discriminatory views. Please revise your conditions.

Can we get this as a sticky? so its easy to find ?

Pretty please ?

As general "stickies" go, This isnt really, Sticky worthy, But then again, In another light, This is the most populated thread in this deticated "lending" board.
So, Yes, I would as to sticky it too, But i think thats already been done, Either that or people are Constantly last posting in here lol

what do you mean TraderEdgeDice ? cheaperinbitcoins.com is offline now. will relaunch soon (somewhere in march)

FYI, the Sarah Sparkles thread is here ("Private Cams")- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=41217.0
Analysis by a system administrator (I have no involvement in this situation, just explaining one way this could happen): In the Apache webserver, using name-based virtual hosts, if SS and CIB used the same IP address and the CIB configuration was removed (or possibly skipped due to a missing directory), and no default site was configured, the SS site would show up if it was the first site.  I don't expect this was a result of foul play, as it's very common to share an IP address between websites.

xenland not answering pm's :(

A consumer loan may as well be an addictive drug preying on the weak.  And unfortunately your good intentions amounts to giving people addictive drugs for free.

The moral function of forbiding loans with interest is to destroy the business of consumer lending (since it would no longer be profitable) and thereby prevent the real 'sin' which is consumer borrowing.

A business loan at least serves some productive function, and the person taking out a business loan is actually better off for having taken out the loan (assuming a sound business).  Prohibiting interest doesn't interfere with this since equity (which Islam allows, Musharakah, etc..) is actually better for all involved anyway.

Not so with consumer borrowing where the borrowers' failure of character leads them to a worse and worse situation - western countries had no choice but to get rid of debtors prisons because this became such a problem, and the function of the bizarre western imposed monetary system (which is destroying many countries) was actually to reduce interest rates to facilitate the masses' addiction to debt.

A consumer loan may as well be an addictive drug preying on the weak.  And unfortunately your good intentions amounts to giving people addictive drugs for free.

IBB Loans:

20 BTC available

interest free ofcourse, maximum 25 days, provide your info (if not previous customer of ibb) , gratuity accepted upon repayment of loan.

thank you

loan request accepted, just send me your bitcoin address so i can send the BTC

thank you

أهلا

Yes, my browser is working fine.

i got firefox 11.0 , so far your the only person that has this problem

Awesome!

I am still a relatively new member of this forum but to help build my creditability with your organization I will be doing a free promotional vlog providing positive feedback on your organization on my youtube channel.

I look forward to working with you in helping promote the active trade and commerce that the wonderful currency known as the bitcoin provides.

Excellent - thanks!  Please send funds to 1PUUPgAc3kMJCCJCuGJKZFApT9jy8rwKPv and at your convenience please provide repayment address - I will confirm receipt as soon as they hit my account.   Loan of 20 coins to repaid in full on or before 05/01/2012.

Cheers!

18 BTC available for loans

I doubt that this will help, because it is almost not profitable, and there is a lot of scammers, so there is high chance that he would not be able to get it back.

Interested in a 15 btc loan for 35 days, if funded today or tomorrow, repayment in full (with suitable gratuity) would be by July 26, 2012.

I believe that I fit most all of the criteria for a suitable credit-risk, and I pledge to repay in full, as promised.

If accepted, please make the loan to:  1Aowq8dpoT9V8j7QMsEqNSYTXAzX3Xjkya

Thanks, looking forward to doing business with you.

hello,

I can provide 1 BTC, please post your address

thank you

i dont accept interest, but i do accept gratuity/donation.

btc sent, repay to this address 1JvWomgzuaATEkbA3QpyPgQZnnYeRiG1uR

thank you

i dont accept interest, but i do accept gratuity/donation.

btc sent, repay to this address 1JvWomgzuaATEkbA3QpyPgQZnnYeRiG1uR

thank you

Was just wondering whether I could get a 500-1000 BTC loan for 1-2 years.

Interest on top is fine with me.

http://www.ib-bitcoin.com/ban3.gif
You must meet the following conditions:-

1. More than 300 posts

2. Been registered for more than 3 months

3. Provide your email , IP address & any other id requested

4. over 18

5. Active in forum

6. At least 2 or 3 feedback/trades on forum

*These conditions don't apply to previous trustworthy customers.
*Forum time / UTC followed

IBB

http://www.ib-bitcoin.com/ban1.gif