Bitcoin Forum

Asias richest man has invested in Bitpay as per this article -> http://www.scmp.com/business/banking-finance/article/1390224/bitcoin-service-firms-best-investment-not-virtual-currency
Furthermore, anyone remembers the 400k BTC that started moving a few days ago? With these news so close together it leads me to believe that it might have been due to a deal outside an exchange. It's not outside the realm of possibility that Mr Ka-shing purchased them outside an exchange. We also have to remember that he is very well connected with the Chinese government. Do you think someone like that would invest in Bitcoins if they where to be outlawed in China? I believe that they might have issued a temporary ban to allow high-level investors in China a chance to buy at a great price before pushing it higher.

Thoughts on this? Personally I predict a new ATH within a week. I'm gonna say 1500$ first half of January.

So some asian dude invests in a Bitcoin related company.

He did not invest in bitcoin

So he's just doing what we are all doing. Using Bitcoin for fiat profits. Don't delude yourself at this moment with "bitcoin is the next money coming this year". No. It's all speculation and FIAT profits.

There is always another ATH coming up.

What sort of nonsense is this?

Let's not get ahead of ourselves with the ATH talk just yet. First we need to get back to 4 digits.

Hitting 800 was a step in the right direction.

His investment is only loosely related to bitcoin price.  He is investing in Bitpay, which is a company which derives value from merchants looking to sell the risk associated with accepting a volatile currency.  Bitpay will be successful so long as Bitcoin is liquid and volatile.  This investment has little correlation with a long position in BTC.

Lol so you don't care about USD price at all then?

Not true. Bitpay grows if bitcoin grows. If bitcoin users grow, bitcoin price goes up.

Horizons Ventures invested in BitPay, which is just Li Ka-shings Venture Capital firm.

Also he has probably invested directly in bitcoin too, but that's not something worth announcing.

Bitpay allows people to easily spend and receive coins, something that in time could make bitcoin less volatile, enticing new money to get involved in bitcoin. You'd be dumb to think he doesn't hold some bitcoins and expects reasonable justified longer returns on them, none of this up 1000%, down 500%, up 200% in three weeks mess.

Or are you one of the few many that thinks bitcoin is for nothing but day trading and speculation?  

I've quickly skimmed your post history and all you do is get giddy over Bitcoin USD price in the Speculation forum.

If you're a bitcoin purist looking to annihilate FIAT, you'd not be here talking about "traps" and "profits". You'd not care about USD value AT ALL.

Are you for real? Investing in BitPay IS investing in Bitcoins! Anything else is just absolute nonsense. Furthermore he's not "some asian dude", this is almost the equivalent of Bill Gates or Warren Buffet getting involved, and as I said he would never do it if the Chinese where to ban Bitcoins. This most likely not only means that China will be back on track soon, but serious investors are now openly in the game. Do you think Wall Street will stand idly by as Asias richest man moves into what could become a new global currency, or do you think that they will want a piece of the action?

Since when is investing in a US based company the same as buying Bitcoins?

No matter how much you are uber-bull and want to spin this, this is not an investment in Bitcoin. It's an investment in a US based company.

if bitcoin fails, bitpay won't exist.

And if he really invested also in bitcoin, do you think he would tell anyone?

 ;)

How can it be any more obvious than this?

No matter how much you are uber-bear, there is no way to spin an investment in BITpay as unrelated at all to bitcoin.

It doesn't matter. The dude above me is trying to spin this to "China will definitely allow Bitcoin now". I cannot say it more clearly than this: the news message did not say anywhere that he bought or owns bitcoin.

If anything, this is sooner the proof of the opposite: China definitely is going to ban bitcoin and therefore Chinese investors need to look for other ways to invest in something Bitcoin related - namely a company that deals with bitcoin.



Gee whiz are you guys thick? Investors in Bitcoin will watch the price. Investors in Bitpay (a bitcoin related US based company) will look at the number of transactions conducted in Bitpay, the number of companies attached to Bitpay and their transaction volume.. Price is not a factor for Bitpay, the number of transactions is.

I'm not saying it's unrelated to bitcoin, I'm saying its not an investment in Bitcoin and therefore price won't change, and China Govt stance on Bitcoin will DEFINITELY not change because of it. Whoever said that must be on some good acid.

Nobody does; it was 130k.

He probably has also invested in bitcoin directly, as many investors have, e.g. Richard Branson (another billionaire).

But that is not something which needs to be announced.

Bitpay grows if number of bitcoin transactions increase. If number of bitcoin transactions increase, it means bitcoin has become more popular. Bitcoin becoming more popular will mean price will increase.

The only "thick" one here is the guy who can't draw a relationship between increased bitcoin transactions and bitcoin exchange rate. There are only so many coins. If lots of people want them because bitpay makes paying with them easier THAN BITCOIN GOES UP you dense fool.

Volume=transactions=less volatile prices. Less volatile prices brings more new money to bitcoin, helping to make things even more stable. China explicitly banned banks and the like from investing due to volatility.

The stupid stick sure hit you hard.

Not true! I price my cows in goats, never chickens!

+1 but without the insults  :P

That's pure speculation sucked right out of your thumb, and you have zero basis for that statement. You don't know what he has or doesn't have. You have the news article to go on, and that specifically says an investment in Bitpay. Not Bitcoin.

Also your inductive reasoning is not sound. The number of transactions conducted through Bitpay are not necessarily related to bitcoin price.


Lol u mad bro. :/

I give up dude. But you're wrong

I'm not sure if you're trolling me but I'll bite... BitPay is a company based in the US but looking to become a global player in the Bitcoins market. There is nothing stopping Bitpay from accepting local currencies, and therefore it wouldn't be very difficult to start using BitPay in China tied to RMB instead of USD.
I'll give you an example on a larger scale. Apple is a US based company and someone investing in Apple is good for the computer industry as a whole, regardless of where Apple HQ is located. Got it? In the same way investing in BitPay is good for the Bitcoin market because it's a company involved with Bitcoins.

Someone like Ka-shing is not interested in just hoarding Bitcoins, he want's to build the infrastructure because that's where the money is. Ask yourself this, what would you rather own - a bunch of gold or Visa and Mastercard? The answer is obvious, it's much better to own VISA or Mastercard rather than a bunch of gold because then you make money consistently and not only when you sell what you have. That's what the smart investors are after - consistency, not pumping and dumping.

Well, he did admit to speculating so calling him out on it is kind of redundant..

Also, what you have to understand, is that paying through Bitpay is essentially the same as selling BTC for fiat. Because Bitpay converts the Bitcoin directly to fiat at the current rate so that the companies run no risk. The companies attached to Bitpay couldn't care less about owning Bitcoins. They just want the pool of Bitcoin enthusiasts as a targeted audience to buy their products. Plus free marketing as news sites pick it up. None of the Bitpay connected companies actually get any BTC - they get FIAT. So your whole correlation of "more Bitpay transactions = higher prices" is completely skewed.


"I can't tell you why, but you're wrong"

I can, I just have better things to do with my time than explain something to someone who doesn't want to understand.

And the bitcoins just disappear, never to be seen again. Because it's not like someone didn't buy them when bitpay sold them as part of their service  ::)

I give up, not mad just seriously impressed!

Ironically more VC money for Bitpay can mean higher prices because they can use that VC money to buy Bitcoins.

I love how you all give up. I never heard of selling BTC on exchanges at market price caused the price to go up. That'd be new.


That's just wrong. You're comparing Bitpay to VISA or Mastercard, while VISA and Mastercard deal with USD transactions between persons. Bitpay is essentially a BTC selling company. It's not dealing with buying BTC.

Also, comparing BTC 1:1 to gold? Really? Since when is gold designed as a currency?


Bitpay has no interest in holding BTC. They're providing a service, that is all. Bitpay isn't a hedge fund.

@boxman90

If Warren Buffet invested in Exxon, would you say he didn't buy any oil?  I would read between the lines and say he probably owns at least a few barrels now through Exxon.

Lol. Wat. No. If he invested in Exxon, he owns Exxon shares. Not some barrels of oil. Warren Buffet gets a cut of the profit. Not barrels of oil. You read between the lines, well, let me get my crystall ball then :/

What is it with threads like this. How come anytime the near term trend turns up at any point, at any reason, at any price, there is always someone asking if we're going to 'test ATH' or 'pass ATH'? How about we focus on passing, like, $900 first?

That doesn't mean they don't do it regardless. Not that they should or it would be anything sane to do, still that doesn't stop them from doing it.
And they have admitted to play the markets on multiple occasions.

I play the markets as well. For USD profits. Has Bitpay ever said they're hoarding the BTC? I could imagine they'd be wary of taking such risk when their current business model is already profitable.

are exxon profits not at least partly dependent on the price of oil?

Of course he invested in bitcoin, price of bitcoin is a sum of it's parts: development hours, existing companies, hashing infrastructure. Without those, in it's infancy on satoshi's PC, nobody would've bought all of bitcoins for more than a dollar. The money spent on all the companies and infrastructure reassure investors that it is a serious deal, if somebody invested 20million in a related company, they can probably risk a million, too. So yes, it is a direct investment into bitcoin.

I'm not sure how you're going to convince anyone that increased merchant adoption through BitPay won't help contribute positively to BTC price but good luck dude.

They're not directly related. Especially not through Bitpay, as their service is based on 100% BTC selling pressure. Because all their merchants are paid in fiat. Buying anything through Bitpay = selling BTC for fiat.

And anyway people have to buy the bitcoins to spend them. The coins spent on stuff through bitpay would have been sold anyway, this just helps everyone.

More merchant adoption = more exposure, more legitimacy, more people in the game, using, investing in, and having a reason to hodl coins , not necessarily the merchants themselves.

I'd say it's a pretty big tell ;)

Who buys the BTC that Bitpay sells? People who then become the customers who buy things through Bitpay again. It is circular; the buying and selling pressure cancel each other out.

funny thing no one talks about that paypal has also invested in bitpay, somewhere around 2 million usd

That is good to know. :)