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Title: Judge Says NSA Phone Surveillance Is Legal Post by: GoldenWings91 on December 27, 2013, 06:54:17 PM Quote The National Security Agency's bulk collection of data from phone companies is legal, a federal judge has ruled, dismissing a significant court challenge to the practice and setting the stage for a bigger legal battle over secret surveillance programs. U.S. District Judge WIlliam H. Pauley III in Manhattan sided with the government in his decision Friday, calling the collection program a "vital tool" to combat terrorism and deeming it "the Government's counter-punch." The ruling stands in conflict with a decision issued earlier this month in a separate case by a federal judge in the District of Columbia who said the program "almost certainly" violated the Constitution. The New York case was brought in June by the American Civil Liberties Union, which claimed that the NSA was violating the group's constitutional rights by collecting metadata from the ACLU's phone calls. It was among the first big legal challenges against the NSA program after it was disclosed in June. The group sought a court order declaring that the mass call logging violated federal law governing foreign intelligence surveillance as well as constitutional free speech and search-and-seizure protections. Judge Pauley disagreed. "The right to be free from searches and seizures is fundamental, but not absolute," he wrote. "Every day, people voluntarily surrender personal and seemingly-private information to trans-national corporations, which exploit that data for profit. Few think twice about it, even though it is far more intrusive that bulk telephony metadata collection." During arguments last month, Judge Pauley appeared receptive to the idea that Americans enjoyed some level of privacy in their phone records. But in his ruling, the judge said he found no evidence that the government used any of the bulk metadata for any purpose other than investigating and disrupting terrorist attacks. "No doubt, the bulk telephony metadata collection program vacuums up information about virtually every telephone call to, from, or within the United States. That is by design, as it allows the NSA to detect relationships so attenuated and ephemeral they would otherwise escape notice," he wrote. "As the September 11th attacks demonstrate, the cost of missing such a thread can be horrific." The ACLU said on Friday that it was "extremely disappointed" with the decision. "We intend to appeal and look forward to making our case in the Second Circuit." A spokeswoman for the NSA deferred comment on the case to the Justice Department, which said it was "pleased" with the decision. http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304483804579284373529865520 (http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304483804579284373529865520) Title: Re: Judge Says NSA Phone Surveillance Is Legal Post by: Wilikon on December 27, 2013, 07:32:42 PM "The right to be free from search and seizures is fundamental, but not absolute"
>:( Title: Re: Judge Says NSA Phone Surveillance Is Legal Post by: CSInvestments on December 27, 2013, 07:52:06 PM I think most people saw this coming.
Title: Re: Judge Says NSA Phone Surveillance Is Legal Post by: conspirosphere.tk on December 27, 2013, 08:00:48 PM what would you expect in the land of gratuitous anal rape:
http://www.copblock.org/40618/another-isolated-example-of-a-body-cavity-search/ (http://www.copblock.org/40618/another-isolated-example-of-a-body-cavity-search/) http://blog.simplejustice.us/2013/12/20/a-new-low-vaginal-probes-at-the-border/ (http://blog.simplejustice.us/2013/12/20/a-new-low-vaginal-probes-at-the-border/) Title: Re: Judge Says NSA Phone Surveillance Is Legal Post by: Lethn on December 27, 2013, 08:03:13 PM "The right to be free from search and seizures is fundamental, but not absolute" >:( I know this is supposed to be a serious issue but that face next to that comment just made me laugh :D that's exactly the face everybody else who reads that is probably making. Title: Re: Judge Says NSA Phone Surveillance Is Legal Post by: Carlton Banks on December 27, 2013, 09:53:39 PM Do something.
Use ZRTP. Route it over a VPN. If I can't get people to use ZRTP (and that's a very small number of people), then I just don't do candid phone calls with those people. Mostly I'm making arrangements and suchlike, and I'd prefer to do that over ZRTP too, but I'm already sending out a pretty strong message to people I know that I'm taking phone conversations only over secure lines. I'm also trying to explain to people the benefit of VPN routing, but it's difficult enough convincing them about ZRTP. If they won't give us rights, take the right. Title: Re: Judge Says NSA Phone Surveillance Is Legal Post by: FCTaiChi on December 27, 2013, 11:02:59 PM So they take it to a jurisdiction they find favorable, can't there be a precedence war where ACLU and others do the same?
Good point Carlton, I'll look into it Title: Re: Judge Says NSA Phone Surveillance Is Legal Post by: bullioncopper on December 28, 2013, 12:32:48 AM I think we see the problem spelled out in the judges ruling. Private enterprise has seduced American's to willing give up privacy. Every month Facebook slowly peels back the layers of privacy, just slow enough that their is no revolt. The ACLU and Americans need to push to pass laws to make it illegal for private enterprise to profit off our private data, sure we may have to pay a monthly fee but at least billions of dollars won't be spent studying our data only to market to us. The government is simply buying this data from private corporations that we have freely given our data too. We are all scared of a microchip being implanted under our skin. Since we refused to accept this, the government helped Apple develop and push the smart phone into society. If you think about it, we all are willing carring the microchip day to day religiously in the form of a smart phone. It is basically a graphical user interface for databases that we type into and gets sent to commercial and government databases at the same time.
Title: Re: Judge Says NSA Phone Surveillance Is Legal Post by: nastybit on December 28, 2013, 01:29:08 AM Also here: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/27/judge-rules-nsa-phone-data-collection-legal
Quote "Every day, people voluntarily surrender personal and seemingly-private information to trans-national corporations, which exploit that data for profit. Few think twice about it, even though it is far more intrusive that bulk telephony metadata collection." Don't you accept terms and conditions in US giving the right to use and transmit your data to 3rd party companies? And they played yet again the 9/11 card, oh man Title: Re: Judge Says NSA Phone Surveillance Is Legal Post by: Spendulus on December 28, 2013, 01:49:59 AM .... Oh, hey. That 9/11 card. Yeah.And they played yet again the 9/11 card, oh man Play it again, Sam. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vThuwa5RZU Round up the usual suspects. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXuBnz6vtuI Title: Re: Judge Says NSA Phone Surveillance Is Legal Post by: Carlton Banks on December 28, 2013, 02:13:45 AM So they take it to a jurisdiction they find favorable, can't there be a precedence war where ACLU and others do the same? Good point Carlton, I'll look into it I've been kind of surprised that VoIP gateways haven't started to take BTC (if anyone knows of a VoIP provider that does, start talking!). But I think the market's a little opaque or under-developed, mostly because old-style (PSTN) telephone service are doing all they can to make it difficult (I'm looking at mobile service companies mostly here). Sure, there's Google Talk or Skype, but I think we know who else is privy to the encryption keys used on their services (if it's free, you're the product). There's also RedPhone, but it's Android only, and it's proprietary to itself (even though it appears to implement ZRTP or something similar, can't find the specific details). So like with Skype, it only works between RedPhone users, a closed system. Take it into your own hands, and you're swimming in a soup of technical standards, but it's getting easier to make it work. It's now possible to get a SIP client (which is kind of the VoIP "html" standard) on every platform/OS, including iOS. Kind of important with telecommunications really, as you can't expect everyone to be running the same OS, and yet you don't want to be in a position where you can't make a simple call because of incompatible standards. Title: Re: Judge Says NSA Phone Surveillance Is Legal Post by: bryant.coleman on December 28, 2013, 03:01:39 PM Actually what do you expect of US judges? They are appointed by people like Obama and Billary. And they will show their true colours on time. The first US judge whose name comes to my mind is Barbara Walther.... who took away some 300+ children from their parents after a falsified call was made by a racist named Rozita Swinton.
Title: Re: Judge Says NSA Phone Surveillance Is Legal Post by: hilariousandco on December 30, 2013, 01:59:24 PM Also here: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/27/judge-rules-nsa-phone-data-collection-legal Quote "Every day, people voluntarily surrender personal and seemingly-private information to trans-national corporations, which exploit that data for profit. Few think twice about it, even though it is far more intrusive that bulk telephony metadata collection." Key word voluntarily. We have a right to decide what info we may or may not give out. Absolutely pathetic. Title: Re: Judge Says NSA Phone Surveillance Is Legal Post by: quone17 on December 30, 2013, 09:02:02 PM Also here: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/27/judge-rules-nsa-phone-data-collection-legal Quote "Every day, people voluntarily surrender personal and seemingly-private information to trans-national corporations, which exploit that data for profit. Few think twice about it, even though it is far more intrusive that bulk telephony metadata collection." Key word voluntarily. We have a right to decide what info we may or may not give out. Absolutely pathetic. Good point. Man I started reading 1984 the other day and the similarities are shocking, even in the first few pages. No one has any guts to do anything, they'll just keep voting in the same old people. Title: Re: Judge Says NSA Phone Surveillance Is Legal Post by: hilariousandco on December 30, 2013, 09:05:54 PM Also here: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/27/judge-rules-nsa-phone-data-collection-legal Quote "Every day, people voluntarily surrender personal and seemingly-private information to trans-national corporations, which exploit that data for profit. Few think twice about it, even though it is far more intrusive that bulk telephony metadata collection." Key word voluntarily. We have a right to decide what info we may or may not give out. Absolutely pathetic. Good point. Man I started reading 1984 the other day and the similarities are shocking, even in the first few pages. No one has any guts to do anything, they'll just keep voting in the same old people. Yup, scary indeed. The reality is much worse now. We have technology Orwell couldn’t even envision in his nightmares. I need to read 1984 again. Title: Re: Judge Says NSA Phone Surveillance Is Legal Post by: Hideyoshi on December 31, 2013, 01:56:28 AM "Every day, people voluntarily surrender personal and seemingly-private information to trans-national corporations, which exploit that data for profit. Few think twice about it, even though it is far more intrusive that bulk telephony metadata collection."
Corporations do not make things illegal, and do not put people in jail. Big difference. Corporations also care about what customers think. Government agencies do not, since they are not elected. I am wondering if Anonymous, or some group similar, has already dox'ed all of the information of that judge. If not, I hope they do. It would be good for him to see why privacy is important. Title: Re: Judge Says NSA Phone Surveillance Is Legal Post by: U1TRA_L0RD on December 31, 2013, 04:58:05 AM Ok, so they shouldnt be whining and complaining when anonymous is taking down NSA servers. What happen to listening to the people, this country is feeling more like china and iraq.
Title: Re: Judge Says NSA Phone Surveillance Is Legal Post by: U1TRA_L0RD on December 31, 2013, 04:59:09 AM Bunch of repulsive freaks.
Title: Re: Judge Says NSA Phone Surveillance Is Legal Post by: battlescars on December 31, 2013, 06:00:44 AM Bro, this is ridiculous, we are going down the shitter its so obvious, people are rioting in the world about the wrong stuff, we need to focus
on our priorities here and riot on important matters. I dont know what to say i am so sad when i read stuff like this. Who is this dumbass judge anyways. shame. Title: Re: Judge Says NSA Phone Surveillance Is Legal Post by: U1TRA_L0RD on December 31, 2013, 07:56:48 AM Yes, Soon there will be riots in america when the governemnt proposes another stupid thing. Civil war.
Title: Re: Judge Says NSA Phone Surveillance Is Legal Post by: bryant.coleman on December 31, 2013, 10:10:32 AM Yes, Soon there will be riots in america when the governemnt proposes another stupid thing. Civil war. No. American people are too addicted to Facebook and Xbox that they will not take to the streets even if the government seizes their assets. Take a look at Ukraine and see how the people are protesting. Title: Re: Judge Says NSA Phone Surveillance Is Legal Post by: Spendulus on December 31, 2013, 02:55:04 PM Yes, Soon there will be riots in america when the governemnt proposes another stupid thing. Civil war. Governments would be wise to not propose so many stupid things that people riot. But of course they are not so wise, perceptive or intelligent.Title: Re: Judge Says NSA Phone Surveillance Is Legal Post by: hilariousandco on December 31, 2013, 03:10:58 PM Yes, Soon there will be riots in america when the governemnt proposes another stupid thing. Civil war. No. American people are too addicted to Facebook and Xbox that they will not take to the streets even if the government seizes their assets. Take a look at Ukraine and see how the people are protesting. I agree with the above, but there should be protests, and if nothing changes, then people can riot. Title: Re: Judge Says NSA Phone Surveillance Is Legal Post by: U1TRA_L0RD on December 31, 2013, 10:35:10 PM Yes, Soon there will be riots in america when the governemnt proposes another stupid thing. Civil war. No. American people are too addicted to Facebook and Xbox that they will not take to the streets even if the government seizes their assets. Take a look at Ukraine and see how the people are protesting. I agree with the above, but there should be protests, and if nothing changes, then people can riot. 2014 is the year for more rioting and stupid things to come. Governments on Judges asses bringing them to say no to the truth, and more guns to kill people. Then why were they invented for? Title: Re: Judge Says NSA Phone Surveillance Is Legal Post by: skeet on January 02, 2014, 08:35:35 AM This should outrage every American citizen. 9/11 happened because of govt incompetence. Having locking cockpit doors, as they do now, would have prevented it. Israeli airlines already had this feature in place years before 9/11.
Many of the hijackers were on known FBI terrorist watch lists, none of them should have been allowed to be here. The FBI agent who arrested the 20th hijacker prior to 9/11 warned superiors 100+ times what was going to happen, nobody did anything -all should have been fired and charged criminally. The group responsible bombed the trade center and failed before, every time they were in court they said they would do it again - to allow anyone even vaguely connected to these maggots to live in the USA was criminally negligent - nobody was held accountable for allowing that to happen. Title: Re: Judge Says NSA Phone Surveillance Is Legal Post by: U1TRA_L0RD on January 02, 2014, 10:55:35 AM What are they going to do next, Implement tracking devices on newborns?
Title: Re: Judge Says NSA Phone Surveillance Is Legal Post by: trilightzone.org on January 02, 2014, 01:51:03 PM Usually what happens is "they" select a judge which will rule in their favor. It's that simple and has been done for many years to buy time, do damage control and so on.
Title: Re: Judge Says NSA Phone Surveillance Is Legal Post by: hilariousandco on January 02, 2014, 01:55:14 PM Usually what happens is "they" select a judge which will rule in their favor. It's that simple and has been done for many years to buy time, do damage control and so on. Obviously they're never going to let an independent impartial person be the judge. Anybody who was would see this as completely illegal and against human rights. Title: Re: Judge Says NSA Phone Surveillance Is Legal Post by: bryant.coleman on January 02, 2014, 02:08:47 PM Usually what happens is "they" select a judge which will rule in their favor. It's that simple and has been done for many years to buy time, do damage control and so on. In US, the judges are selected by the Senate of Representatives. So what is so surprising, if the rulings are biased? Title: Re: Judge Says NSA Phone Surveillance Is Legal Post by: hilariousandco on January 02, 2014, 02:20:16 PM Could other countries or individuals of other countries take legal action against the USG? There must be something stopping people from suing etc.
Title: Re: Judge Says NSA Phone Surveillance Is Legal Post by: Carlton Banks on January 02, 2014, 04:14:44 PM Could other countries or individuals of other countries take legal action against the USG? There must be something stopping people from suing etc. The best that could do in the short term is embarrass the US publicly, as they would probably come up with some legal or moral excuse to not cooperate with the charges ("terr'ism"). The US government likes to have the best of both worlds; everyone else has to conform to the US' most stringent/"imaginative" interpretation of international agreements, but when the US itself has a charge to answer, it bats them off like a fly buzzing around their head. Walks like an empire, talks like an empire. For some reason, no-one ever says it though... I might see if I can start a trend. "Imperialist US" sounds too polite somehow, "US empire" sounds less euphemistic. Title: Re: Judge Says NSA Phone Surveillance Is Legal Post by: Kaligulax on February 25, 2014, 08:26:52 PM Complacency is not the answer, nor does it alter the Constitution. Where you may be ok giving up rights in the name of the greatest sham ever released on America, not all of us are. And that doesn't mean anyone's doing anything wrong either. I'm surely not, and I don't care for every single aspect of my life being a matter of public info. "So be it" is exactly the attitude that is hurting our country. People who don't care shouldn't be involved, on any level.
Title: Re: Judge Says NSA Phone Surveillance Is Legal Post by: Spendulus on February 25, 2014, 10:01:37 PM Usually what happens is "they" select a judge which will rule in their favor. It's that simple and has been done for many years to buy time, do damage control and so on. I don't think that can be done at the federal level. You are in one of the 9 federal districts, you file your case. you get whichever judge is working that circuit at that time. Yes you might expect them to be liberally biased in DC or in the 9th circuit. But if your case had venue there that's where you'd be.Someone who knows federal case might weigh in on this. |