Title: 20nm asic miner technology Post by: ayayay on January 02, 2014, 04:03:09 PM Am I correct to say this is the latest asic technology? any word of a newer more advanced asic coming down the road and if yes when?
Title: Re: 20nm asic miner technology Post by: vpasic on January 02, 2014, 06:01:07 PM not yet.
KNC Neptune is only one announced and release date is unknown. Title: Re: 20nm asic miner technology Post by: Silv0r on January 02, 2014, 06:11:47 PM Not only KnC! Hashblaster releases a 20nm ASIC too! ;D (...not)
https://www.hashblaster.com/ Title: Re: 20nm asic miner technology Post by: gamersglory on January 03, 2014, 12:12:10 AM Unless someone can get Intel to use there 14nm process then yes 20nm is as small as it gets right now ;)
Title: Re: 20nm asic miner technology Post by: gmaxwell on January 03, 2014, 02:05:09 AM It's not just the size that counts.
The numbers you should care about are delivery time, BTC/GH, and W/GH. Technical details are interesting, but if they don't improve those three numbers they're not really relevant. Title: Re: 20nm asic miner technology Post by: crazyates on January 03, 2014, 02:34:02 AM It's not just the size that counts. Yeah yeah. That's what all the guys say. ;)Lol J/K, but you really are right. It always amazed me how KNC was a 28nm ASIC, and yet the BitFury chips are 55nm and consumed less power (per GHs). What's the advantage of a small 28nm process if a competitors 55nm chip is more efficient, and runs cooler? (yes, I know the actual answer of how BitFury is more efficient, but I still think it's funny). Title: Re: 20nm asic miner technology Post by: gmaxwell on January 04, 2014, 01:13:43 AM Lol J/K, but you really are right. It always amazed me how KNC was a 28nm ASIC, and yet the BitFury chips are 55nm and consumed less power (per GHs). What's the advantage of a small 28nm process if a competitors 55nm chip is more efficient, and runs cooler? I facepalm just a little bit every time I see someone brag that KNC was the first to 28nm. (hell, if you're going to be that liberal: there were people running on 28nm _FPGAs_ a LONG time before KNC shipped :P )(yes, I know the actual answer of how BitFury is more efficient, but I still think it's funny). Title: Re: 20nm asic miner technology Post by: crazyates on January 04, 2014, 04:18:10 AM Lol J/K, but you really are right. It always amazed me how KNC was a 28nm ASIC, and yet the BitFury chips are 55nm and consumed less power (per GHs). What's the advantage of a small 28nm process if a competitors 55nm chip is more efficient, and runs cooler? I facepalm just a little bit every time I see someone brag that KNC was the first to 28nm. (hell, if you're going to be that liberal: there were people running on 28nm _FPGAs_ a LONG time before KNC shipped :P )(yes, I know the actual answer of how BitFury is more efficient, but I still think it's funny). Title: Re: 20nm asic miner technology Post by: gmaxwell on January 04, 2014, 04:55:00 AM Lol J/K, but you really are right. It always amazed me how KNC was a 28nm ASIC, and yet the BitFury chips are 55nm and consumed less power (per GHs). What's the advantage of a small 28nm process if a competitors 55nm chip is more efficient, and runs cooler? I facepalm just a little bit every time I see someone brag that KNC was the first to 28nm. (hell, if you're going to be that liberal: there were people running on 28nm _FPGAs_ a LONG time before KNC shipped :P )(yes, I know the actual answer of how BitFury is more efficient, but I still think it's funny). Title: Re: 20nm asic miner technology Post by: gamersglory on January 04, 2014, 05:32:50 AM Yes most of the good chips are on a 28nm die. 20nm is going to be very overpriced sense its newer process. but the reason you go for the smaller process is you get a better yield on the wafer.
Title: Re: 20nm asic miner technology Post by: crazyates on January 04, 2014, 05:59:32 PM Lol J/K, but you really are right. It always amazed me how KNC was a 28nm ASIC, and yet the BitFury chips are 55nm and consumed less power (per GHs). What's the advantage of a small 28nm process if a competitors 55nm chip is more efficient, and runs cooler? I facepalm just a little bit every time I see someone brag that KNC was the first to 28nm. (hell, if you're going to be that liberal: there were people running on 28nm _FPGAs_ a LONG time before KNC shipped :P )(yes, I know the actual answer of how BitFury is more efficient, but I still think it's funny). Title: Re: 20nm asic miner technology Post by: xselam1988 on January 04, 2014, 06:12:06 PM It's not just the size that counts. Yeah yeah. That's what all the guys say. ;)Lol J/K, but you really are right. It always amazed me how KNC was a 28nm ASIC, and yet the BitFury chips are 55nm and consumed less power (per GHs). What's the advantage of a small 28nm process if a competitors 55nm chip is more efficient, and runs cooler? (yes, I know the actual answer of how BitFury is more efficient, but I still think it's funny). Title: Re: 20nm asic miner technology Post by: ProfMac on January 04, 2014, 06:15:30 PM It's not just the size that counts. The numbers you should care about are delivery time, BTC/GH, and W/GH. Technical details are interesting, but if they don't improve those three numbers they're not really relevant. The correct unit is J/GH you may also say W/(GH/s) Title: Re: 20nm asic miner technology Post by: gmaxwell on January 04, 2014, 08:34:37 PM The correct unit is J/GH you may also say W/(GH/s) But the pedantry doesn't extend to correcting $/GH? Or do your miners only perform a fixed number of hash operations during their lives? :PTitle: Re: 20nm asic miner technology Post by: ProfMac on January 04, 2014, 09:21:10 PM The correct unit is J/GH you may also say W/(GH/s) But the pedantry doesn't extend to correcting $/GH? Or do your miners only perform a fixed number of hash operations during their lives? :PI think that $/GH or BTC/GH are well formed units. Title: Re: 20nm asic miner technology Post by: smoothrunnings on January 04, 2014, 09:44:53 PM Unless someone can get Intel to use there 14nm process then yes 20nm is as small as it gets right now ;) Intel's Labs have a 10nm chip, but that doesn't mean we'll see anytime soon! :) Title: Re: 20nm asic miner technology Post by: brontosaurus on January 04, 2014, 11:08:29 PM What everyone forgets is that an efficient 28nm design will, for sha256 at least, outperform an inefficient 20nm one. KNC, for example, did a conversion from an FPGA for their 28nm design - soon to be ported to 20nm, and if you calculate back from their watts/GH metric, you can see that their pipelines must contain about 35 - 50% more switching gates than normal. So what's the advantage in paying twice as much NRE and probably three times as much for the silicon? This to be expected from a conversion.
Likewise, in certain circumstances a full custom 40nm design could easily outperform a 28nm (or even 20nm) design done at gate level, but it's an order of magnitude more difficult to implement unless you really know what you're doing, and not many asic designers nowadays have the necessary skills. Title: Re: 20nm asic miner technology Post by: crazyates on January 04, 2014, 11:31:21 PM What everyone forgets is that an efficient 28nm design will, for sha256 at least, outperform an inefficient 20nm one. KNC, for example, did a conversion from an FPGA for their 28nm design - soon to be ported to 20nm, and if you calculate back from their watts/GH metric, you can see that their pipelines must contain about 35 - 50% more switching gates than normal. So what's the advantage in paying twice as much NRE and probably three times as much for the silicon? This to be expected from a conversion. Mmm could you imagine a BitFury chip or something similar at 20nm?Likewise, in certain circumstances a full custom 40nm design could easily outperform a 28nm (or even 20nm) design done at gate level, but it's an order of magnitude more difficult to implement unless you really know what you're doing, and not many asic designers nowadays have the necessary skills. Title: Re: 20nm asic miner technology Post by: Hippievogel on January 06, 2014, 03:44:44 AM It's not just the size that counts. The numbers you should care about are delivery time, BTC/GH, and W/GH. Technical details are interesting, but if they don't improve those three numbers they're not really relevant. The correct unit is J/GH you may also say W/(GH/s) W/(GH/s) is better Title: Re: 20nm asic miner technology Post by: Bicknellski on January 06, 2014, 10:11:41 AM It's not just the size that counts. The numbers you should care about are delivery time, BTC/GH, and W/GH. Technical details are interesting, but if they don't improve those three numbers they're not really relevant. $ per GH/s that is the real important number along with delivery date especially when you are making that miner. |