Bitcoin Forum

Yesterday I received my VISA statement  :-[ and here it is  :o

http://www.wavestock.com/images/Visa.jpg

Take a look at the 2 red rectangles : these are CASH withdrawals that I did with my VISA card. Notice the fees (called "Frais de retrait" in french) charged for these 2 withdrawals :

6.96 € for a €200 cash withdrawal, that's 3.5%
5.36 € for a €40 cash withdrawal, that's 13.4% !!!

Hello hello we are in 2014 !!! how can MY bank and VISA still treat their own customers like this ???
(I don't know how they share these fees together)

Of course, I knew that there are costs associated with these kind of withdrawals (I read the terms of my contract, who doesn't huh ?).

And remember, these are cash withdrawals in my own currency (euro - no forex risk associated with this transaction), in my own country (no cross border risk), even done in an ATM placed in my own bank (for the second transaction)!

Why didn't I take out the cash from my current account then you will ask??

Well, that's a different story (for another day) but in a nutshell because my bank decided to cancel an option I had to go negative in my current account, unless I subscribed to a new product/service (which I did not). So, even if I had more than €10K+ euros on my savings account (but not much in my current account because I just bought bitcoins :P) , I was not able to get cash out of this stupid ATM without my VISA card (of course VISA saved my day 'cause I needed the cash but at what price !!)

I don't know what you think but personally, I think this is UNACCEPTABLE in today's world.
This is NO CORRECT PRICE for the SERVICE rendered.

I agree to pay for added value or service. In this case, this is just daylight robbery.

Bitcoins will challenge the entrenched global players (VISA, MASTERCARD, and the BANKS) because they are stealing money from us, instead of charging correctly for services rendered.

What do YOU think ?

I needed to pay for a Hotel in foreign currency and they would only accept credit cards. Ridic fees on both ends. Sad. We will see if BTC will be better.

Looks like you willingly allowed yourself to get robbed. Don't use services that you know are going to charge fees.

Their minimum charge rules are just horrible. Many times I have been slapped with transaction fee exceeding 100% of the actual amount! (although the actual amounts were small in those cases). I was forced to do such transactions, as the website didn't had any other option for payment other than that by PP / CC.

Mastercard doesn't charge so much

@cousinHub : you're right my friend !!! (Tu as complétement raison !!!)  ;D

I think, that you need listen costs of withdrawal before you use this service.
Often, if user withdraw money from own bank there is no added costs, they are included in year fee, and if you pay something with card it's with no charges.

Have you seen on ATM screen advise of charges, before taking cash?


You exchange electronic money with cash, even you change btc/ltc there are charges.

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Transaction_fees

Are you dreaming on a FREE world? From where are mining coins?

Maybe you could try changing to another bank. Most banks don't have ridiculous fees like that

This is why I don't ever want a credit card. I have no need for one anyway.

The fees depends what bank you have the card from. Always study all the fees so your not surprised later  :)

Is this even true...

Yes indeed I agree with you. But the thing is :

1. There is a lack of transparency because they don't remind you of the fees as you are making the transaction. I think personally that the regulator should FORCE them to state clearly the fees everytime you are making such a transaction (cash withdrawal with you VISA card). You may have signed the 'General Terms and Conditions' years ago and they may have been revised many times since then.

2. Even if you know about these fees, how can it still be possible in 2014 to charge such a high percentage? when dealing in the same currency, in the same country, with no credit risk associated with the transaction (my BANK knows that I'm a good customer with top quality rating). Would they do the same if it was a face-to-face transaction ? I guess not. Which means they would feel ashamed and they know they are robbing you (behind a screen it's a lot easier) !

Bottom line : don't use this service (I fully agree but in this case I was forced to use it that very exact day (for a Christmas present, because my other card (linked to my current account) was not working). I'll keep this VISA card as a backup, only for urgent cases and when I go abroad. But in the long term I wish that bitcoins gets broad adoption to avoid these kind of nasty surprises! That was my point at the end.  :-X

Thanks everyone for sharing your thoughts !

Have you withdraw cash at ATM recently, and see no warning on possible fees?


http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/files/2012/01/AjNrr9JCQAEM1pb.jpg_large.jpg

http://www.argentinepost.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/Link-Fee.jpg

http://www.welchatm.com/assets/images/blog/ATM-Fee-Monitor.jpg

Pretty sure they have to warn you. Just simply don't use machines that charge.

For placing ATM they need pay bills, if it is not "your Bank" or You have no "free withdraw" option on your credit card plan, how it might be for free?
Mabe for advertising or some other promotion?

i've never had an issue with my mastercard why don't u do the same cousin

freedom world!
I like Bitcoin

Privately owned ones like this will charge because for the convenience and they'll need to make their money back on the machines.

Chose/Use a bank/card/machine that doesn't charge for withdrawals.

I'm in Canada. On my savings I get 1%, my credit card company Visa - MC charges 19.9%. Now that's a rip-off.
But for cash advance I pay $3-4 "only". I only used cc to buy mining rig.
So I working against them with their own money ;D

Just like getting parts for a mining rig, you need to shop around for your bank and/or credit cards.  I don't know much about the rest of the world's consumer banking systems, but at least in America, there are tremendous differences in rates and fees between different credit cards issued by different banks.  If the one you use charges too much, change to one that charges less.  If enough people do that, then the original card's fees will be lowered to compete, and everyone wins (including, unfortunately, the banks and CC companies as they may get more customers at their new lower fees....)

In the end, however, I'm hoping that large central banks are eventually doomed as crypto currencies take over and replace the use of fiat currencies.  That's what we're all working towards here, isn't it?

Just don't use banks or cards that charge. Shop around for a good deal like you would a phone contract etc.

This is one of the reasons bitcoins is growing and likely to have some mainstream use, High fees on almost any other method (a % of the amount you send) without doing anything  >:( .while in btc's you optionally pay 0.0001 to miners.

If you think about the difference between buy and sell orders, fees charged by exchange markets and the cost of services you use for converting fiat to Bitcoin and Bitcoin back to fiat, Bitcoin is not the perfect option against VISA & Banks. For now.   

Bitcoin started a revolution, for starters it is a better way to pay for things, because its transparent and peer to peer.

Things are about to change 180 degrees and we are a part of it.

We can only hope. Sadly I don't think the masses are as clued in as us renegades  :D.

If You become cash (http://goo.gl/PhoZSM) in USD/Euro and all costs (http://goo.gl/ko5Uo1) for you are in USD/Euro, You can deliver service or ship product instantly, in case of bitcoin You should wait (http://goo.gl/dC1vvI), and it take to lose consumers/money, and you need consider exchange rates (http://goo.gl/hIcbdG) risc.

With cash you need keep, that bills are not counterfeited and stay in allert to not be rubbed.

The main problem with the current banking and international monetary system, is that a certain powerful person can solely decide if tomorrow's paycheck will be lower or higher then the previous one. That issue alone is disturbing if you think about it. Another problem is that we are so used to this system, that we became oblivious to any other alternatives. To back this up, you can look to the alternatives which (crypto's) and see that the people are unsure and skeptic about it, which is pretty sad really.

Especially internationall bank wire transfers are expensive and slow, Bitcoin has really good future in this area

Card to card transfers are for free (cost included in annual fee) in the same payment system. If You transfer cryptocurrency and you need cash, you still need to pay converting and withdrawal costs.

After doing some more reading on the subject, I think that this guy expresses well what I wanted to say :

http://cdixon.org/2013/12/31/why-im-interested-in-bitcoin/ (http://cdixon.org/2013/12/31/why-im-interested-in-bitcoin/)

People really should refuse to use services that charge when they can be done for free. This is just milking people.

I just hope the governments doesn't make bitcoin illegal.  :-\

It's just one the best things since internet porn.

They really can't make it illegal.

They already made illegal gold ownership.

Also, It seems some banks on US already blocked some accounts cause they were related to bitcoin trading.

They can put in regulations, but without banning the internet I don't see how they'll stop people from using it.

mistake,I hope.

They can't stop it as it's decentralized so even 1 node hashing on a gameboy color can keep the network alive BUT they can certainly and very easily (China?) ban any company from using it on their countries.

They made what illegal?

I don't think China 'banned' it, but they put restrictions on their exchanges. People will still find a way to use it regardless.

Yes! Agree with you!
Bitcoin or another improved one will win at last.

You can slow down a freight train but you can't stop it, even with both hands  :D

Unless you're Spiderman or Superman.