Bitcoin Forum

I hear everyone say "don't put in more than you can afford to lose", but is anyone else putting in more, as in what you can't afford to lose? Or am I the only idiot with too much balls..


I have around $17 grand into BTC/LTC... this is NOT money I can just afford to lose. I have around $8000 of debt but I'm paying it off bi-weekly with every paycheck. I'm devoting myself to cutting down useless spending this year and keeping track of my money better so I can maintain or acquire more bitcoin. I'll probably have to cut down going out on weekends and making trips this year, but I'm okay with that. Bitcoin being killed off at this point and going to $0 is unlikely in my view, but I guess anything can still happen. But on the other hand if it skyrockets..... well I'll be a very happy guy.


Anyone else putting in way more than they can afford to lose? I just wanna see who you are so in case we crash and burn I'll have some shoulders to cry on.

Investing is a gamble. No one can say with any certainty what the price of BTC will be in a year from now. Sure, everyone will give you their opinion, but no one really knows, which is why it's a gamble. Would you gamble with all your money at the casino you couldn't afford to lose?

Same thing.

I agree it is unlikely the price would ever go anywhere below $500 USD which it hovered about at the end of last year, but you nor I nor anyone else in the world can be 100% certain of that

It's an interesting question. I certainly won't be very happy if I lose the money I "invested" (speculated with). I think you're 100% wrong that you're the only one with huge fucking balls because you decided to make a stupid decision. Yes, I believe you are incredibly stupid to invest $$ which shouldn't be. But, then again stupid people every days spend 120% of their income and dig themselves a financial grave so your behavior doesn't surprise me. And to be more specific, I believe anyone who speculates on Bitcoin has balls, whether they are aware of their gamble or not. I'm in for a lot of money for my Neptune, to me, although I know some people who have purchased 10 or 20 of the Neptunes, so do that math really quickly and tell me how big their balls are. Its the same bet for them as myself, only they're in WAY deeper.

It may be the difference between how you are qualifying. In your left hand is $ to gamble with and the right hand has other $ as something you shouldn't gamble, but do anyway. Totally nuts, why even think? Why not just run around with fists full of cash and buy every shiny thing you see.  :D

I tend to think that 'can't afford' to lose actual implies that you would not be able to continue with everyday life - however if you managed to gamble money in Bitcoin then surely you can afford to lose it as it is not needed to cover basic expenses? What you're really saying is that you're investing what you would be devastated to lose - in this instance I think your gamble is worth  :)

People could learn much from a popular utah/morman saying,
"Live within your means."

The saying simply means do not spend more than you have.
If I want something expensive, I save for it.

Investing a large amount of money in anything is foolish.

Another saying "A fool and his money are soon parted."
Any stock can fail, any asset can be made worthless.
Gold and bitcoins are no exception.
Tomorrow the key to a philosopher's stone might be found.
The next day, a individual may release a asic designed to quickly brute force private keys.

And this includes dollars.   

Whatever floats your boat and makes sense for you is the way to go. I would never put in $17k unless I'd feel comfortable losing it (which isn't the case) but who am I to say that your tactic is wrong?

Besides, high risk = high reward...

Up-too-late metaphysical question: Is it possible to invest what you can't afford to lose? Or does the act of investing something mean, by nature, that we can afford to "lose" it?

On a more serious note: If you are "invested" in bitcoin - in its meaning, its value, its possibility, then you cannot lose. Even if the value of your investment goes down, the act of investing in something meaningful is in fact a win.

I agree, If one wants the best way to store/increase value,
Gold is the safest thing to store value in.


The fact: you need food, and water.
Everything else is just extra.

An educated human can survive with very little.
At one point our species was nomadic and we did not need the luxuries of the modern society.

You're right. I think I should just keep what I have right now and focus on saving USD from my paychecks as a safety net, instead of buying more BTC with it...


Well at the end of the day money is just money... if I lose it I won't die. But I will lose most of my savings. So what do people mean when they say invest what you're willing to lose? Are people here really comfortable losing a few thousand dollars? I'm sure most of you here have more than 1 BTC... is this money that you wipe your ass with?


That's my main motivation. But some people say (and I kinda agree) that I have a problem that I don't value money. I mean I do want money and I want a lot of it, but I end up tossing it around without much care (refer to the other guy's quote about a fool and his money). I still think it's better than caring about money too much or being "cheap"


I dunno about that...



So I guess no one else put in more that they are willing to lose?

if btc goes to 2k, well you double your investment from 17k to 34k

17k - 8k debt = 9 k profit

if you think bitcoin will reach 2k then stay and cash out by then to be safe. or if you think its gonna go higher to 3k, 5k, 10k, keep holding.

However, I highly suggest cashing out a portion once it reaches around 1.5k or 2k and pay off your debts. that way, even if bitcoin goes to 0, at least you're debt free

Like most people if you have the discipline to stick with it you could probably do well with a version of the SSS plan. I'm holding an amount of coin to be sold to repay debt at a price that will likely take a few years to reach. Yeah I'd be sad if bitcoin faded away but the more it's worth the more people have skin in the game to ensure it works. Whether it will continue to be easily convertible for national currencies is harder to predict.

I actually bought in in 2011 using credit cards and a signature loan. I looked like a genius at $31/BTC and a moron when it crashed to $3. it took 18 MONTHS to break even when you include the interest. So yes, it's possible, but I was either really lucky and unreasonably stubborn or blinded my my ideological commitment to the cause. I had to live with my parents for a while (and I'm over 40) but now I'm sitting on a small fortune. So go for it if you believe in it but not for greed. I looked at it like putting money in the collection plate at church. I don't go to church, so this was my contribution to a better world. The bitcoin gods smiled on me and I am sitting on a medium sized pile now, even with stolen coins, closed exchanges, hacks and a really nasty ex-wife. You got those kind of balls? I didn't pay back those loans or credit cards until November 2013. How much is your piece of mind worth? Mine, apparently not so much.

I guess you could say I'm also in this camp... depends who you ask, me or the wife.   :P

That said, in life - you have to take risk, and I have never been one to take foolish risks.  I feel pretty good about BTC, and if it ends up blowing up in my face - yea, it would suck for a while, but it's an experience, and it could turn out to be the inverse.  That's a chance I'm willing to take, even if I can't currently afford to "lose" much. 

That's a good idea, thanks. I'm was thinking of selling my first 2 coins after it reaches 10k... but maybe this is too optimistic? I have calculated that after all my other expenses, I will be able to pay off my debt by May, which I'm okay with. I will have to live paycheck to paycheck until then.


Good for you for holding on to your bitcoin for so long even after that insane crash. The risk was much higher back then so you definitely deserve the fortune you have right now. Are you planning on cashing out anytime soon (if you haven't already) or do you still feel like growing your small fortune even more?


You just described exactly how I feel. We ride together or we die together, crypto bros for life!  ;D

"Good for you for holding on to your bitcoin for so long even after that insane crash. The risk was much higher back then so you definitely deserve the fortune you have right now. Are you planning on cashing out anytime soon (if you haven't already) or do you still feel like growing your small fortune even more? "

Every time BTC goes up 10%, I sell about 8% of my stash and then whenever it dips 10% I buy back about 70% of what I sold. My BTC holdings are slowly going down, but the dollar value of my BTC holdings are going up.

I put nothing into BTC,
I've mined/earned all my BTC during my free time.

There are some threads by dummies who put more in then cashed out too late during the $1,200 burst.

Have you heard of vanitygen?
Do you know what ASIC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASIC) stands for?

A ASIC could be created to brute force BTC private keys.

I invested a lot but paying back my initial investment in "installments" i.e. sell when btc reaches  ATH.

Soon I will have "debt" cleared, and just left with lovely bitcoins to HODL over :)

Agreed, that's why I stick to investing in large amounts of tuna fish. Money is for suckers who want to just buy things. I just want tuna.

Where on earth did you get that from? Learn something about elliptical curve cryptography first please ....

I guess I'm the exact opposite. I've just taken free faucets and whatever mining my regular computer can do and have gambled up to 1+ BTC now. Can't lose if you started with nothing.

This is also a semantic problem, what means "to afford"? Different people have different concepts regarding what exactly it means.

I'm personally quite bullish on bitcoin, so I couldn't give an advice "don't invest more than you can't afford" in a clear conscience. On the contrary, I think it is fine for someone to borrow money to invest in Bitcoin now, if that person made his homework and believes that the price must go up with reasonably high probability. IMHO, it is not the same as lottery, where you have no chance to predict what will happen.

OP: No, I don't think you are an idiot.

No sir, it couldn't. (https://i.imgur.com/cVA0D.jpg)

High risk high rewards, low risk low rewards, either u make it or break it, for me, I would just do it anyway.

YOLO  ;D ;D ;D

entire net worth, reporting in

I invested 1/3 of my spare fiat. If I lose it it means no new electronics in the house and that would just depress me, so yeah I can't afford losses.

One more point! Why isn't it more risky holding IMF fiat now that cryptocurrencies provide an alternative (and thus systemic risk to the insane merry go round)? If you don't understand that, then I'm going to part you from your dollars by buying you out of your BTC! Oh Please!.. $300 Bitcoin just for 1 day.

I'd say because traditional fiat is more than established throughout the world, guaranteeing its use for the foreseeable future.

That and, though maybe it shouldn't be so, it is very trusted by the general population (and by general population, I don't mean this forum's users).

There was a guy who went all in at $50 or, with a mortgage backed by his house if I'm right. He recouped his initial loan @ $170.

I also know quite a few who have more in bitcoin than what they would be willing to lose, to put it lightly :)

I have an INTP personality, was a member of Mensa, read serious books, and have a strong background in math, cryptology, austrian economics and computer science. This background allowed me to evaluate Bitcoin when I discovered it.

After discovering Bitcoin & heavily researching it, I realized that it was not only the opportunity of a lifetime, but possibly the millenium. I sold off all of my investments and put every spare dollar into bitcoin.

I put off making a major car repair to get some extra bitcoins, those particular bitcoins could now buy a new car.

I didn't borrow against my property though. My lot & cabin in the jungle here in Hawaii are free and clear. So if Bitcoin crashs and dies, I will still survive okay. I just won't have any luxuries.

One of the reasons people trust fiat is that even if something goes wrong there will be milions in the same situation. It's easy to go with the flow and trust others can work something out. Think Europe, half of it is in the EU, even if Euro fails somehow it's not going to happen within days and everyone is going to discuss an alternative. And if BTC fails? I would say 50% heard of it, half of them could explain what it is and a fraction of those own some. Who's gonna cry about it beside us?

If you can afford to lose your entire net worth, keep all your wealth in $.

The $ will go to zero regardless, whereas bitcoin may go to zero but it's unlikely anytime in the near future.

If you want to hedge your bets against bitcoin purchase some gold and silver.

When the dollar crashes people will run to either cryptos, gold and silver, or more likely both.

I'm in fiat debt to the banks irl but have been building my virtual roll via BTC for a while now :)
Eventually I will cash out what is needed to pay my debts but for now the value and potential value increase in BTC outweighs the interest I'm required to pay.. I actually took out more money from my bank line to buy more BTC during the dec crash- fuck it

either brilliant or stupid, time will tell. i hope it's the former.

A lot of people will tell you that you are making a horrible mistake, and those same people will say that you were just lucky if your decision turns at to work huge in your favor.   If you talk to a lot of financially successful people, many of them will tell you that they made a lot of good and bad financial moves in their life, but there were 1 or 2 big risks that they took that actually paid off (many by luck) and led to where they are at today.

I personally have made a few of these moves, and it has changed my life dramatically.  I applaud your risk, but I do think you should hedge some of it, and pull back some profits when you can, and try and just pay off the debt that you owe.   Living debt free, is the best feeling in the world.

You must have big cojones, sir.  I hope you have no dependants.  If this pans out, people in your position will essentially win some sort of financial lottery.  Good luck!  I don't have the guts to put it all on the line like that.   

I'm in the your boat!

I'm all in on fiat debt and bitcoin holding.  Inflation versus deflation is the theory, hope it works out.

Investing borrowed money in highly risky things like BTC is why the suicide prevention hotline post on reddit wasn't stupid. I'm serious. There are people losing their life savings and more(!), esp. when they overreact during a correction. I hope things work out, but really, don't invest more than you can afford to lose.

If you overreact like that during a correction you shouldn't be invested in bitcoins at all. Seriously, look at the graphs, corrections are always happening. If you didn't expect them when you bought, you hadn't done any research whatsoever

What are your plans for the best case scenario and what are your plans for the worst case?

As someone who sometimes goes overboard buying crypto currencies, I say hedging is not a bad idea.  Maybe buy a small amount of gold, or silver - it's kind of cheap right now.  Keep, or grab a little cash - that way if BTC totally shitz the bed, you will still have something to show for your efforts, and you won't need the Redit hotline.

I'm more likely to lose money in gold than bitcoin

Like anything, you can't tell if gold / silver is cheap until you know the price tomorrow and next month.

But sure, diversification isn't a bad thing. Just had to diversify when btc goes up in value from $20 to $800 in a year ;)

Right now, silver is at about the cost of production, so I consider it a good buy.

If you think about it, bitcoin is a good buy for the same reason...  ;)

Costs more to mine it (for most people), than it's actually worth. 

Pay off your debt... living on credit is stupid and you end up spending more than if you budgeted accordingly. Basically if you show some freaking restraint, you can get more for your dollar/bitcoin rather than paying it in interest to "the man".

Totally agree about not living on credit card debt. Its horrendous, especially if you get to the day when you can't pay it back. Been there once, never again.

Listen to this man. Pay off your debts before you start investing. Don't be an idiot. The people telling you never to invest what you can't afford to lose are just looking out for you is all and just don't want to see you suffer if things don't turn out the way you want them to.

When I was in credit card debt about 10 years ago I used to wake up every morning feeling sick. Its just not worth it

About $2400 of my debt is on credit card and I'm not worried about it... I can pay that off pretty easily in the coming months. I may be paying some interest for keeping a credit card balance but I will hopefully make that up with bitcoin where a little interest will be insignificant. If I pay it all off now and miss out on a sharp rise in bitcoin price, I will just look at that as missed opportunity cost.


I don't get this logic at all... you're saying I can invest $500 in 40 startups and one of them will turn my $500 into a million $? Are you insane?

Or are you talking about creating my own startup with that money? Yeah because I just have so many great ideas...

I think this is the BEST answer to the OP's question... and I am quite surprised that no-one else seems to realize that there is a FUNDAMENTAL nature to Bitcoin's purpose way beyond it's potential $$$ return!

INVEST EVERYTHING! What is PEACE worth?  What is an honest, transparent, fair  VALUE-SYSTEM (money-system) worth?  it is measurable is LIVES not in $$$!

Bitcoin has the potential to SAVE LIVES!  So that's it!

I stumbled on this video a few weeks ago.. I think this is the HEART and PURPOSE of Bitcoin... if you happen to gain some $$$ along the way... that is GREAT, but don't make it about that alone... you'll feel ENERGIZED by your investment if you realize, and you will not be paranoid about the potential "risks" and "loses"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6qTgOto0mU

Investing something you can't afford to lose is one thing.

Investing something you don't have is another. How exactly does that work? Debt on one hand, uncertainty on the other. What a great combination..

In March of '13 I got a side job that paid me $2800.  I had a credit card with a balance of about $2500.  I was going to pay off my credit card with that money, but instead I bought BTC at $40 each.  I don't consider myself an idiot for making that move.

Good for you

How does that relate to the OP

If we even see half the growth of last year, then I am definitely making the right choice.

As said in this post:

lovely

But your still making an assumption. That's not advise, that's telling people your opinion.

"If you talk to a lot of financially successful people, many of them will tell you that they made a lot of good and bad financial moves in their life, but there were 1 or 2 big risks that they took that actually paid off (many by luck) and led to where they are at today."

And there you have it.

Maybe I spoke too soon and jinxed my position way too much? I'm actually nervous right now with Ghash.io getting close to having majority hash power and all the FUD that's being spread around. Hold me guys  :o  :(

Best case is to sell them for $10000 each in the next 24 months and buy a house in Spain.  I'm not expecting anything like the 5000% growth of previous years though.

Worst case is I lose all my holdings to a hacker or some such and have to work for half a year to pay it off.  I am also quite wary that bitcoins will be overtaken by a superior altcoin, but I think the more likely proposition is that bitcoins usability problems will be overcome by a services running on top of it.  If this does happen it would maybe take me a bit less time to pay off my debts, as I would get a % of my money back from selling them before $0.

I don't see being in debt up to my limit being a real problem due to the way the value of the £ is being eroded by QE.

Yeah, the kid spending all his student loans on bitcoins was more than he could afford to lose.  If it tanked he would have gone bankrupt.  But since he grew up really poor and his parents never had anything, he figured, "So what?"  He took a big risk and got lucky.

If anyone on here took out a second mortgage on your house to buy bitcoins, then yeah, you'd lose your house if it tanks.  That would fall under most people's idea of "can't afford".

If someone took out 0% credit card loans to buy bitcoin but really couldn't pay them back without bitcoin succeeding, then yeah, that also falls under "can't afford", because your credit score will be jacked up for years.

.  Lots of folks on here are suggesting that you diversify.  You know what they say about making your bed.

Bitcoin is still in it's infancy stages - no where near "big". When you can get in before Wall Street you're getting in extremely early.

Well I'm "diversified" into LTC and NMC as well... although I count all crypto's success highly dependent on bitcoin. I'm not touching the stock market because that is a truly manipulated market where the common man is at a disadvantage... i've lost enough in the stock market, never again. I don't want to invest in Gold and Silver either... they have been going down and I want more reward out of my investments.


Wat?


Ask your friends and family what they know about bitcoin. Bigger than western union with a $12 billion market cap... what is that compared to the global economy?

It's an interesting one. I've put in a large proportion of my savings, way more than is sensible but I'm confident for the future. Life will go on just fine if it all turns to shit.

I for one would definitely not be getting into debt for it, but I would never get into debt for anything. If I had big earning capacity and no dependents then perhaps I'd feel differently.

Anyone buying into Bitcoin now is still a ludicriously early adopter. Anyone who tells you otherwise is deluded or has an agenda. The price of entry is perhaps higher than it should be at this point but it's still utter peanuts compared to where it might go sooner than we think.

I hope so... the last month has been pretty boring imo. I want to experience the price skyrocketing for once while my money is in the line... I bet it's a great feeling. RISE MY MINIONS!

There are always boring periods. It helps to fuel the ones that make your head spin. I think prices will wander up, down and sideways for a while yet. It'll make the subsequent explosion all the sweeter.

Investing what you CAN'T afford to lose is never a good idea, but it is certainly much fun reading about other people doing it!

Here is my take, take it for what it's worth.

1) invest in yourself first and foremost.  Get healthy, get fit, educate yourself.  Live totally debt free.
2) get your "beans, bullets and bandaids" in stock, at least a 3-month supply, a year is even better.  This is your insurance against hard times.  You can't eat cash or gold or bitcoins.
3) any extra, store away some gold, silver, and a little cash.  Keep a liquid stock, it can come in handy.
4) then any extra still, go for it with bitcoin.

over and out.

I definitely agree with you that LTC and NMC don't realistically offer any diversification -- if bitcoin crashes big, it is going to take every altcoin down with it.  As speculative a gamble it is to invest in bitcoin, altcoins are even more of a risk (although I've still got a small amount of a bunch of them, because I think the higher risk is offset by a potential higher upside too).  Btw, stock splitting has zero effect on the amount of money you make from a stock investment.  It simply means that if you previously owned 1 share worth $10, you now own 2 shares worth $5 (assuming a 1 for 2 split).  Also, Amazon hasn't had a stock split since 1999, so not really relevant in this case.   Companies mainly do stock splits for one of two reasons: either the price is getting so high that it is posing a psychological or real barrier to retail investors' ability to trade, or the price is so low that the stock can't be listed on a major exchange (in which case, the company can do a reverse split).  E.g. to be on NASDAQ stocks generally have to have a share price of at least $1, among other requirements. 

A skyrocketing price can be a horrible feeling. the November ramp up probably took a year of my life because of the stress. You never know until after the fact when you should have sold. I finally started selling about 1% after every 10% rise in price, but then tapered off after $900 to ab out 0.5% because I thought the rally might have more legs. I had less dry powder to buy back in after the crash.

It's unfortunate that it made you uncomfortable.

I found the whole thing highly exhilarating, but then again I've decided it's a long term thing for me rather than attempting to day trade. Doing that would take years off anyone's life.

if you had as much coin as I do and no other wealth to speak of, you might feel differently. a 1% trade for me is many thousands of dollars and the equivalent of several months salary. wait until your stake really is worth millions and see if selling or holding is a stress free decision.

I think I'll be in for a much longer wait than you. Cool problem to have though.

Nonsense. Bitcoin is a a baby. It has HUGE room for growth, both in utility and price. Crikey, they've only just started installing bitcoin ATM machines round the world. The revolution is just beginning.

I always thought the three "B's" were beans, bullets and bullion.  Now it's four B's: beans, bullets, bullion and bitcoin :)

Boy scouts need bandaids

OP,  You lost a lot in the stock market?  If it was recent, you must have been making some risky bets - it's like Christmas every time my Fiance opens her quarterrly 401K statement the past couple of years.  One more plug for physical silver:  it's curently selling for less then mining costs, it's less then half the price of it's high several months ago, the gold to silver ratio (GSR) is over 60 - which definately makes silver attractive and many developnig nations/cultures love it for both it's industrial and store of value/money use.  It's a great "long term investment" - a hedge against riskier investments.  You can get silver at any coinshop for as little as $3. a coin for old U.S. coins and it's anonymous.  And lastly, it's proven over time - since before the birth of Christ!  I'm not saying: don't buy BTC - I buy a lot of it too.  I'm just saying it may pay to hedge.